It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

That one scripture seems to be the only one you keep quoting, but does that say when the eternal life is given...NO

Kenneth, have you missed all the scripture I have been plastering on this site? Do I need to quote it again?
The text says: "I know them . . . [present tense] . . . and I give [present tense] them eternal life, and they shall [future] never perish." The believers-sheep presently have eternal life, and they never perish.

If you read other scriptures like the ones I have given with out reversing them like to tend to do, or trying to say they don't apply you will see through to this.

You must give scripture on topic. You need verses that say lose salvation. But you have none. You can bring in tangential issues in vain.

" But he who endures to the end will be saved. "

Again, this is off topic. It concerns the Tribulation right before Christ returns and does not address spiritual salvation.
But if it did, it would not prove a thing; for the doctrine of eternal security is precisely that
believers do endure to the end; everlasting life, never perish.

" I come quickly and My reward is with Me. "

Reward is not the same as salvation. Rewards (crowns) are earned by good works.
But salvation is ever by grace through faith.
But Kenneth, you will get no reward without salvation first.
You simply must trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior, instead of as your "chance-giver."

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.
1 Thes 5 end:

"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom+ 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138

"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"


Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

 

[kennethcadwell]

Once again Atwood you compare a scripture that has nothing to do with falling away to the point of falling away I made. In this scripture it talks about giving aid ( saving us from our sins ). He does not have to do that for angels because they are already in heaven and do not live in the sinful world. However some chose to leave heaven to live in sin ( fell away ), and therefor they are being held tell the day of judgment to go into hell fire. Then the scriptures compare us to this to show that we can fall away as well.

 

[Atwood]

Once again Atwood you compare a scripture that has nothing to do with falling away to the point of falling away I made. In this scripture it talks about giving aid ( saving us from our sins ). He does not have to do that for angels because they are already in heaven and do not live in the sinful world. However some chose to leave heaven to live in sin ( fell away ), and therefor they are being held tell the day of judgment to go into hell fire. Then the scriptures compare us to this to show that we can fall away as well.

Kenneth, the angels who sinned got no help. Christ did not pay for their sins, and He never offered them to be their Savior, and never promised them eternal life. Human believers in Christ are far different from angels, and trying to compare them with believers is wrong.

And the scriptures do not compare us with them as to losing salvation. And can't you see that you are just saying things, not quoting the Bible and proving. Scripture says not such thing as you claim. You allude to a passage (without quoting) that says nothing about believers losing salvation.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
Kenneth, what have you got against trusting Christ as your Savior instead of chance giver. You oppose yourself.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Once again these do not show salvation is immediate. You need to stop taking away from scripture by leaving out, or not recognizing the words, shall, will, end in a lot of the scriptures dealing with salvation. And the other scriptures of persevering, enduring. Plus you can't be cast out until you are there first.

I will say you teach truth, but it is only half truth.

 

[Atwood]

Once again Atwood you compare a scripture.

Kenneth, after complaining about only 1 verse, I posted you a huge amount of scripture. When will you carefully consider that evidence?

 

[Atwood]

Once again these do not show salvation is immediate. You need to stop taking away from scripture by leaving out, or not recognizing the words, shall, will, end in a lot of the scriptures dealing with salvation. And the other scriptures of persevering, enduring. Plus you can't be cast out until you are there first.

I will say you teach truth, but it is only half truth.

Kenneth, you are just up & saying things. Try proving with scripture. And why don't you prayerfully consider all the scripture I posted to you after your 1 verse complain. It is obvious that you did not study it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

2 Peter 2:15-17

They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boer, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

But he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

verse 20 ) For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
verse 21 ) For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In the scriptures our Lord compares us to those of the past for example the angels who fell. They were in Gods grace in heaven, but left their celestial abode to come down to earth. The scriptures show that they are being held for judgment of hell fire, and we are no different then them for we can fall away too.

Would those angels be cast into the lake of fire if they stayed in heaven ? NO
Because they did they will be.

Same with us, if we stay in the way of our Lord we will be saved. If we leave our celestial abode ( spiritual mind set ) to go back to a world mind set we lose that gift.

dude, You have no power to stay in the way of the lord. You are not capable. Stop thinking you are. For you will fail every time you even try.

Your guilty And will be guilty till the day you die no matter how good you think you are.

The demonic fall was caused by unbelief. God did not decide to save them, so they have no hope.

He DID decide to save us, By dieing IN OUR PLACE. That is ALL that will save us. Our works are meaningless. If we could work to earn salvation. God died in vein, because he did not have to die.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your lack of understanding of scripture, and history should have already been clear that

dude you have no understanding of scripture to judge anyone else and what they believe, Yoiu beliebe what men tell you and thats all. You prove it every time you speak. And every time you call people calvanist, when they do not believe in calvins words.

It is all about men to you. Your men got it right, so you trust them, We MUST follow the men (Your men to you we follow) there can be no other way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

2 Peter 2:15-17

They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boer, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

But he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

verse 20 ) For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
verse 21 ) For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

You totally missed the whole context of the whole passage.

2 Peter 2:15-17

They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boer, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

They trusted what they gained from sin more then they did God. THEY NEVER TRUSTED GOD. So they were NEVER SAVED.

Your going to sit here and tell us people who LOVE sin have ever repented and trusted Christ?

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are throwing things into Gods word here. It was not demons that fell from heaven ( so no demonic fall ). It clearly states they were angels ( and they did believe ), and they fell because of the sin of covetousness. They saw the beauty of women and came down to take them as wives ( Genesis 6 ). They were not saved because they made their choice to leave what they already had, their place in heaven.

We have not been in heaven yet, so we do not have a place there yet. Jesus said I go to make a place for you, then He says about His second coming, " I come and My reward is with Me. "

Lord Jesus does not say His reward is with us now, He says He comes with His reward at the second coming.

Once again I did not say we have to earn salvation with works, that is your faulty assumption. But to say works are meaningless you fail to read and see all the scriptures that state they are.

Your belief, justification, salvation is shown by your works. It is emphasized that works are important because of how you are to look in front of others. If you produce bad works, and others follow those bad works, you not only condemn yourself but you condemn them as well.

Belief is a work ( spiritual work ), following His commandments ( physical and spiritual work ), doing good deeds for others ( physical and spiritual work )


" If you did not do for these, you did not do for Me "

Words of our Lord on good works to perform, and if you do not you will be cast out as well.

dude, You have no power to stay in the way of the lord. You are not capable. Stop thinking you are. For you will fail every time you even try.

Your guilty And will be guilty till the day you die no matter how good you think you are.

The demonic fall was caused by unbelief. God did not decide to save them, so they have no hope.

He DID decide to save us, By dieing IN OUR PLACE. That is ALL that will save us. Our works are meaningless. If we could work to earn salvation. God died in vein, because he did not have to die.

 

[kennethcadwell]

They were of the fold, that is what escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ means. They became sheep, but then turned back and got entangled with the sins of the world. Their end is worse then their beginning because if they would have continued in what they learned at the beginning, Jesus Christ, they would have had the promise of salvation, but now their end is the judgment of hell fire because they did not continue in Christ.

You totally missed the whole context of the whole passage.

2 Peter 2:15-17

They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Boer, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

They trusted what they gained from sin more then they did God. THEY NEVER TRUSTED GOD. So they were NEVER SAVED.

Your going to sit here and tell us people who LOVE sin have ever repented and trusted Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They were of the fold, that is what escaped the pollutions of this world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ means. They became sheep, but then turned back and got entangled with the sins of the world. Their end is worse then their beginning because if they would have continued in what they learned at the beginning, Jesus Christ, they would have had the promise of salvation, but now their end is the judgment of hell fire because they did not continue in Christ.

1. They heard the word of truth, And probably walked with Gods children (in CHURCH) Does not mean they were ever saved. I know alot of people who have done this.
2. It is worse for them. They actually had salvation on the tip of their fingers, But in the end rejected it. Now they have to go through eternity knowing that.

Nothing says they were ever saved, that would be an assumption

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are throwing things into Gods word here. It was not demons that fell from heaven ( so no demonic fall ). It clearly states they were angels ( and they did believe ), and they fell because of the sin of covetousness. They saw the beauty of women and came down to take them as wives ( Genesis 6 ). They were not saved because they made their choice to leave what they already had, their place in heaven.

We have not been in heaven yet, so we do not have a place there yet. Jesus said I go to make a place for you, then He says about His second coming, " I come and My reward is with Me. "

Lord Jesus does not say His reward is with us now, He says He comes with His reward at the second coming.

Once again I did not say we have to earn salvation with works, that is your faulty assumption. But to say works are meaningless you fail to read and see all the scriptures that state they are.

Your belief, justification, salvation is shown by your works. It is emphasized that works are important because of how you are to look in front of others. If you produce bad works, and others follow those bad works, you not only condemn yourself but you condemn them as well.

Belief is a work ( spiritual work ), following His commandments ( physical and spiritual work ), doing good deeds for others ( physical and spiritual work )


" If you did not do for these, you did not do for Me "

Words of our Lord on good works to perform, and if you do not you will be cast out as well.

Stop saying your not trying to earn salvation. Your lying to yourself. The penalty of sin is death. The ONLY thing which can allow forgiveness is DEATH.

No works will allow you to be forgiven one sin, The penalty is death NOT WORKS.

Make up your mind, Gods death, or your own.. One way or another then debt of the penalty of your sin will be collected by God, Are you going to trust God, or continue to trust self and pay your own debt with your works?

If you have to work, You are earning. End of story.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It says they escaped ( meaning no longer walk in the flesh, but walk in the spirit ). If they were never truly part of the fold, then they would not have truly escaped from the pollution ( sins ) of this world. But the scripture says they did, and were in Christ Jesus. They then turned away to go back to the worldly sins.

They could have had salvation if they continued in Jesus Christ. But now their end is judgment of hell fire.

Saying they weren't saved is an assumption if you believe in the saved now theory.

Words of our Lord Jesus again, " But he who endures to the end shall be saved, " and " I come quickly and My reward is with Me. "

Matthew 10:13-14
" If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust
from your feet. "

So I will dust off my feet and keep moving to some one else who needs to hear the truth, the full truth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ( No half truths taught by me )

1. They heard the word of truth, And probably walked with Gods children (in CHURCH) Does not mean they were ever saved. I know alot of people who have done this.
2. It is worse for them. They actually had salvation on the tip of their fingers, But in the end rejected it. Now they have to go through eternity knowing that.

Nothing says they were ever saved, that would be an assumption

 

[Cassian]

Kenneth, you are just up & saying things. Try proving with scripture. And why don't you prayerfully consider all the scripture I posted to you after your 1 verse complain. It is obvious that you did not study it.

From my perspective, the opponents to ES have addressed it very well. Not only citing scripture, but also explaining it correctly as scripture means, has meant from the beginning.

You have not presented one text for the support of ES. As kennethcadwell, stated, you essentially have a half-truth. You present God's promises for His obligations to a covenantal relationship, but you have consistantly denied that man is part of the covenant. You have yet to produce a text that can guarantee man's faith which is how we are being saved, not have been saved also.

What you are consistantly espousing is a false teaching of scripure and it is quite obvious. You have very consistantly, and with much effort dismissed most of the NT which is all addressed to and for the believer. There are ONLY two groups of people in this world. One is a believer or an unbeliever and anyone from any position can change because man is free. God cannot by His own sovereign will impose His own will upon man. Man is free because love must be gendered in freedom. Your whole view is based on a God that is not love. A God that forces man to believe, and then holds man captive. What kind of love is that? Read I Cor 13 and you will have a much better understanding of who God is, and why God created man free and independent from Himself and why He demands the same kind of love in return.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It says they escaped ( meaning no longer walk in the flesh, but walk in the spirit ). If they were never truly part of the fold, then they would not have truly escaped from the pollution ( sins ) of this world. But the scripture says they did, and were in Christ Jesus. They then turned away to go back to the worldly sins.

They could have had salvation if they continued in Jesus Christ. But now their end is judgment of hell fire.

Saying they weren't saved is an assumption if you believe in the saved now theory.

Words of our Lord Jesus again, " But he who endures to the end shall be saved, " and " I come quickly and My reward is with Me. "

Matthew 10:13-14
" If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust
from your feet. "

So I will dust off my feet and keep moving to some one else who needs to hear the truth, the full truth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ( No half truths taught by me )

Typical.

You did not address the facts (the penalty of sin is death) And gave us your opinion.

I guess if you are in a legalistic church, you would never see what we who are in a body of true believers have seen. People who come in, having escaped the world. only to show their true faith, and walk away because they loved their sin, and could not stay away from it for long.

I will take experience over opinion any day.

Again, The penalty of sin is DEATH. Keep on working, your works will not pay for even the least of ALL your sin.

 

[Atwood]

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first. For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire."

It says they escaped ( meaning no longer walk in the flesh, but walk in the spirit [sic, flesh & Spirit are not mentioned] ). If they were never truly part of the fold, then they would not have truly escaped from the pollution ( sins ) of this world. But the scripture says they did, and were in Christ Jesus. They then turned away to go back to the worldly sins.

They did not truly escape at all.
This is SOP for those who want to argue against eternal security. They take a passage in which "salvation" does not occur, where certainly "lose salvation" does not occur and want to argue its implications. And typically neither is anyone called a believer in the Lord Jesus in the passage.

BDAG Lexicon:

ἀποφεύγω1. escape, escape from
2. avoid, shun τινά someone Hm 11:13 (opp[osite] ἐγγίζειν = come near)

μίασμα in Gk. lit. of defilement connected with a crime , also w. focus on the crime itself shameful deed, misdeed, crime.

It is readily understandable that by joining a church or joining oneself to Christians and trying to follow the precepts one may avoid misdeeds. For example, a young man church member (never saved though) may avoid getting STD's by accepting Biblical behavior standards -- I can say that of myself before I was saved.

The text does not say "saved" or "salvation," so we ought not to try to prove anything about losing salvation (an oxymoron) from this. How can you infer more than that they knew the way of righteousness and used that as a moral standard?

Saying they weren't saved is an assumption if you believe in the saved now theory.

It is no theory. It is plainly taught in scripture. For example in Eph 2: "For by grace are you having been saved." The perfect tense implies that it was initiated in the past and continues into the present. How many such passages do you want quoted before you accept this truth.

Maybe this one will convince you:

"Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is bathed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. For he knew him that should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean."

Words of our Lord Jesus again, " But he who endures to the end shall be saved,

1) refers to making it to the end of the Tribulation & Christ's return, not to spiritual salvation.
2) If it did mean spiritual salvation, it would be true, for eternal security is precisely the doctrine which says all the believers do endure to the end; they never perish, Christ gives them eternal life.

" I come quickly and My reward is with Me. "

Nothing about salvation; this is about rewards.
Now if you want a reward, Kenneth, first you have to be saved.

Matthew 10:13-14
" If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust
from your feet. "

Absolutely nothing there about losing salvation. There are those unsaved who won't listen; and you appear to be one of them, Kenneth, regarding Christ as a "chance-giver," instead of trusting Him as Savior.

So I will dust off my feet and keep moving to some one else who needs to hear the truth, the full truth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. ( No half truths taught by me )

You don't speak the truth, Kenneth. The Bible clearly teaches eternal security, and I posted a pile of verses at you. Maybe you will study them some time.

I hope so.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

 

[Atwood]

From my perspective

That says it all, Cassian, Sola Cassiana.

Your theory about what God cannot do is not proven by 1 Cor 13.
Neither do you attempt to demo your claim.

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.

1 Thes 5
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom+ 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138

"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"


Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Cassian]

dude you have no understanding of scripture to judge anyone else and what they believe, Yoiu beliebe what men tell you and thats all. You prove it every time you speak. And every time you call people calvanist, when they do not believe in calvins words.

It is all about men to you. Your men got it right, so you trust them, We MUST follow the men (Your men to you we follow) there can be no other way.

The charge of all sola scripturists. You have declared your self-made, acclaimed religion of one as infallible. Yet any Biblical Christian can immediately tell falsehood from the Truth. Any Christian, if true, can explain the Gospel in the same precise way as the Apostles gave and taught it to the early Church and as the Holy Spirit has preserved it for 2000 years unchanged.

The only way any Christian can tell is because they have always believed the words of Christ as they were given and taught from the beginning. Which is why it is so easy to discern false teachings of men because in every instance their view is NOT from the beginning.

Your first false assumption is that the Holy Spirit got is all wrong with the Apostles. That it was not until the Reformation when the Bible dropped down and individual man grabbed it and began to construct all kinds of philosophical ideas from a text.

You surely have the right and privilege to believe your own interpretation of a text, but it can easily be shown not to have been the Gospel Truth from the beginning. I cannot prevent you from believing that the Holy Spirit cannot preserve both Christ's Body or the Gospel entrusted to that Body as scripture states, as He promised. It amazes me that you even give any accord to the Holy Spirit when you don't trust or believe in the one of Scripture to do as He states. Christianity has an existance long before the Reformation and surely long before some of the modern interpretations of a text that cannot even get further back than 10 or 20 years.

In spite of the fact that the Reformers were rebelling against the RCC of that day, and thought they were changing the way the RCC operated by changing from a perceived tradition to only scripture, the RCC had been doing the very same thing for 500 or more years. All Protestants did was change the Pope of a church or organization to each person being his own Pope and the infallible interpreter of a text. Now, rather than an organization controlling the religion, each man could control and develop his own religion. After 500 years of sola scriptura we have so many variations of scripture that it has made scripture null and void. Man's opinion reigns supreme and your statement about judging confirms that you hold your opinion above any and all other opinions, but worse, the actual Gospel of Christ as He gave it.

I follow Christ of Scripture as He has revealed Himself, so since you don't like following the same Christ as I, you have chosen to follow one of your own construct I presume.

By the way which men do I follow? Which man made theories do I follow? Why not put some evidence behind your assertions. You need to demonize the Gospel of Christ so that a man made theory can be valid based on the text you demonize, Doesn't sound like a good method to me.