The Law is perfect for converting the soul...

[Scuba]

Would you use the Ten Commandments to convict a Gentile of his need for Jesus?

Would you convict a Gentile adulterer of his need for Jesus through the sixth commandment?



How about the seventh day Sabbath? Would you show a Gentile the fourth commandment to convict him of his need for Jesus?



What happens once he sees his need and receives Christ does he go on living the same as he did before he received Jesus?

Can he use the sixth commandment to convict one of his Gentile friends if he is still living in an adulterous relationship with another man's wife?

Can he use the fourth commandment to convict one of His Gentile friends if he is not honoring it himself?

Psalm 119:113 I hate the double-minded, but I love Your law.

James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

 

[Hashe]

I don't believe you'd convict anybody these days through the commandments. In fact, I once knew a Jew who was happy to sleep with other women, as long as it wasn't his immediate neighbour's wife.
It takes the HS to convict people of their sins, not a law.

 

[gotime]

You bring up a interesting point that I had not thought of before.

If the Commandments point out sin, which they do, 1 John 4:3, Rom 7:7 so that we can come to Christ.

If the commandments are to show our sin and need of a saviour which they are still today, then that means that breaking the 4th commandment is still sin to anyone who does not have Christ.

It is illogical to think that after they accept Christ that suddenly God does not care if you break the Sabbath any more.

the commandments still point out sin and need of a saviour. thus the 7th day Sabbath still stands. I already knew this but the reality is that those who admit that the law points out sin and then say we don't have to keep the Sabbath are contradicting themselves. j

interesting thanx.

 

[LT]

the Sabbath is kept by all who rest in Christ. The physically minded part of us wants to hold to the physical elements, but they do so in error, and in sin.

Love does not tell me which day it is.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.


If the Law converts, then why did Paul need converting?

 

[john832]

You bring up a interesting point that I had not thought of before.

If the Commandments point out sin, which they do, 1 John 4:3, Rom 7:7 so that we can come to Christ.

If the commandments are to show our sin and need of a saviour which they are still today, then that means that breaking the 4th commandment is still sin to anyone who does not have Christ.

It is illogical to think that after they accept Christ that suddenly God does not care if you break the Sabbath any more.

the commandments still point out sin and need of a saviour. thus the 7th day Sabbath still stands. I already knew this but the reality is that those who admit that the law points out sin and then say we don't have to keep the Sabbath are contradicting themselves. j

interesting thanx.

The Commandments not only point out sin, they also show us what righteousness is...

Psa 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.

Too often, we focus on the negative side of the Commandments and not on the positive side...

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

 

[gotime]

the Sabbath is kept by all who rest in Christ. The physically minded part of us wants to hold to the physical elements, but they do so in error, and in sin.

Love does not tell me which day it is.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.


If the Law converts, then why did Paul need converting?

That command of Jesus is a quote from the Law fo the Old Testament directly connected to the Ten commandments.

Does the 4th commandment say 7th day? The 4th commandment points back to creation and points out sin. so if its sin to not keep the 7th day sabbath because God made it holy. then my point still stands.

 

[john832]

the Sabbath is kept by all who rest in Christ. The physically minded part of us wants to hold to the physical elements, but they do so in error, and in sin.

Love does not tell me which day it is.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.


If the Law converts, then why did Paul need converting?

Yes, the Sabbath is the shadow of the coming rest Christ will bring to the earth in the Millennium as well as looking back to and pointing to the creation and who the Creator is.

If one says they are keeping that rest in Christ yet violating the seventh day, how is that possible?

One would certainly not say they are keeping the sixth Commandment by not murdering in their heart while pulling the trigger would they?

 

[john832]

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.

Interesting that you would say that obeying God is wasting thought. I am pretty sure that God does not feel that way.

 

[Scuba]

the Sabbath is kept by all who rest in Christ. The physically minded part of us wants to hold to the physical elements, but they do so in error, and in sin.

Love does not tell me which day it is.

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment.39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you would focus on these words, rather than wasting thought on which day of the week is the historical Sabbath, then you would be actually doing what Christ called you to do.

If the Law converts, then why did Paul need converting?

The seventh day Sabbath is a literal day in which we cease unnecessary labor in order to celebrate the fact that it's a memorial of creation that testifies of God as Creator.

Loving God and loving man God's way is the purpose of the Law.

Jesus taught of weightier matters of the Law. In other words, the seventh day Sabbath is still the seventh day Sabbath and is to be honored in light of what it represents but it is not to take precedence over caring for needs. In other words, if loving God by honoring the Sabbath causes you lower the value of caring for needs you are to care for the need. A religious person would value the Sabbath over a need thus showing more love for a day than a life. This is what you find Jesus correcting in all His teachings regarding Sabbath observance. He never once said the Sabbath was done away with. He never once said the Sabbath was changed from the seventh day to the first day. He never, not even once, talked about Sunday.

People have told you that the Sabbath rest is now Jesus so we no longer need to honor the seventh day as special but if you read the commandment I'm supposed to rest on the seventh day, my sons and daughters are suppose to rest on the seventh day, my servants are supposed to rest on the seventh day, my working animals are suppose to rest on the seventh day even people who are not God's people (Christians), who I'm responsible for, are to rest on the seventh day. If Jesus is the new Sabbath rest how am I to cause others to rest in Jesus since resting is the rest in faith in Jesus? I can't make my sons and daughters rest in Jesus. I can't make my servants or non-Christians rest in Jesus. I can't even make my working animals rest in Jesus, not that they would even need to since our rest in Jesus has to do with salvation.

So you see, the seventh day Sabbath is a literal day that testifies of God. It's protected by God's Law. Jesus taught us how to honor in light of how to love God and love neighbor.

People don't realize that how Jesus taught, regarding Sabbath observance, is how God always felt about the weightier matters. We know this because when Jesus was teaching this principle He used the Old Testament to prove it. Listen to the weightier matters.

Mark 2:23-27 Now it happened that He went through the grain fields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?” But He said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the show bread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?” And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

The weightier matters do not do away the lesser, they just put things in their right perspective.

Matthew 23:23“ Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

 

[Grandpa]

It is illogical to think that after they accept Christ that suddenly God does not care if you break the Sabbath any more.

What is even more illogical is, after coming to Christ, you think it is your carnal keeping of the Law is what pleases Him.

Psalm 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

We don't understand the Spiritual. We don't understand Salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit have to show us. That is when we see that all our works of attempting to emulate Him through the Law, by blessing ourselves with our own "obedience", is dirty rags before Him. We were never obedient. We never came close to emulating Him. We are in constant need of Him and His Blessing.

I think you already know this. You must if you point people to the Lord Jesus for the solution to their condemnation.

How was it that they were condemned again? Scuba knows. You can ask him or read the OP...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your not going to win anyone to CHrist by judging them, even using the commandments.

Paul shows us in romans 1 they already know what sin is. If you push the ten commands on someone not saved, all your going to get is a hand in your face.

They know they are sinners (romans 1) what they need to know is that they need Christ, And what CHrist did for them, and that CHrist can free them from their pain and hardship. Humans spend their whole lives trying to fill a need. And use sin to do it. In the end, nothing they do can fill that need (and they know it, that is why they keep trying and keep failing)

They need to know only Christ can fill that hole or need in their lives.

 

[john832]

What is even more illogical is, after coming to Christ, you think it is your carnal keeping of the Law is what pleases Him.

Psalm 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

We don't understand the Spiritual. We don't understand Salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit have to show us. That is when we see that all our works of attempting to emulate Him through the Law, by blessing ourselves with our own "obedience", is dirty rags before Him. We were never obedient. We never came close to emulating Him. We are in constant need of Him and His Blessing.

I think you already know this. You must if you point people to the Lord Jesus for the solution to their condemnation.

How was it that they were condemned again? Scuba knows. You can ask him or read the OP...

Apparently you have never read this...

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

 

[SeaBass]

Would you use the Ten Commandments to convict a Gentile of his need for Jesus?

Would you convict a Gentile adulterer of his need for Jesus through the sixth commandment?

View attachment 82597

How about the seventh day Sabbath? Would you show a Gentile the fourth commandment to convict him of his need for Jesus?

View attachment 82598

What happens once he sees his need and receives Christ does he go on living the same as he did before he received Jesus?

Can he use the sixth commandment to convict one of his Gentile friends if he is still living in an adulterous relationship with another man's wife?

Can he use the fourth commandment to convict one of His Gentile friends if he is not honoring it himself?

Psalm 119:113 I hate the double-minded, but I love Your law.

James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Obeying the law of Moses can never make one a Christian, cannot save/justify.

 

[Scuba]

Obeying the law of Moses can never make one a Christian, cannot save/justify.

Amen!

Obeying the Law of will not make anyone a Christian but a Christian will obey the Law of God.

Obeying the Law of God will not justify a person but a just person will obey the Law of God.

Obeying the Law of God will never save person but a saved person will obey the Law of God.

 

[LT]

I pray that you would look to the spiritual, and not be so focused on the physical.

I do not judge you for following a specific calendar,
but do wish to correct your error in assuming that you are obeying one of the 10 Commandments in doing so,
and that others are disobeying the 10 Commandments by following a different calender.

Taking a day to rest is right, and righteous.
Going any further is above and beyond the call (and in this case, a distraction to you).

the phrase is 'keep it holy'. If I keep every day holy, I will always keep the 7th day holy.
The command doesn't say "gather on the Sabbath".

 

[RedTent]

I always find I understand the ways of the Lord better by going first to the Old Testament for the principles of God, then follow through to the New to check for how Christ explained them or brought them forward.

The law of Moses was given after the Hebrews were brought out of slavery, not before. They aren't meant for people who have not gone to Jesus for salvation.

The laws tell how God blesses us, and even atheist use them to live well, but I have often heard atheist say they don't need Christ, they are good people.

Over and over, all scripture explains that law isn't meant for salvation, that is the job of faith and grace.

We are told a lot about walking in the Lord, and repentance as a part of salvation. We are told that if we choose sin as a way of life we cannot also choose Christ, so the law is part of our life in Christ. But it is for after salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

Amen!

Obeying the Law of will not make anyone a Christian but a Christian will obey the Law of God.

Obeying the Law of God will not justify a person but a just person will obey the Law of God.

Obeying the Law of God will never save person but a saved person will obey the Law of God.

Keeping the OT law cannot make one a Christian, CANNOT JUSTIFY. So why would anyone try to keep a 'yoke of bondage' that cannot ever justify him? Obeying Christ's gospel is what makes one a Christian, is what justifies, so the Christian keeps the gospel. Rom 1:16 the gospel (not keeping the 10 commandments) is the power of God unto salvation.

 

[Scuba]

Keeping the OT law cannot make one a Christian, CANNOT JUSTIFY. So why would anyone try to keep a 'yoke of bondage' that cannot ever justify him? Obeying Christ's gospel is what makes one a Christian, is what justifies, so the Christian keeps the gospel. Rom 1:16 the gospel (not keeping the 10 commandments) is the power of God unto salvation.

OT Laws? Justification? Yoke of bondage? Rewards?

Love needs no reward. Love does what is right because it's right. A child of God does what is right because he has been born of God.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Don't let anyone deceive you. Practicing righteousness is a birth issue, not a works or reward issue.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Sinning is a birth defect. Practicing righteousness is a new creation.

 

[SeaBass]

OT Laws? Justification? Yoke of bondage? Rewards?

Love needs no reward. Love does what is right because it's right. A child of God does what is right because he has been born of God.

1 John 2:29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Don't let anyone deceive you. Practicing righteousness is a birth issue, not a works or reward issue.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

Sinning is a birth defect. Practicing righteousness is a new creation.

No, I simply point out that keeping the OT law cannot make one a Christian, CANNOT JUSTIFY. So why would anyone try to keep a 'yoke of bondage' that cannot make him a Christian, never justify him?

 

[psychomom]

(Scuba, you don't say if your hypothetical "Gentile" is saved or not in each situation,
which is fine cuz i don't think you're really making a point about how to help someone, anyway. )

Psalm 119 is a beautiful chapter in our Bible.

but do we think of the Law as words on a page?
rules and regulations?

because i see it like this.
the Apostle John tells us right off in His Gospel
about this Being Who was with God in the beginning.

remember what John calls Him?
The Word.
when Ps. 119 says things like v. 89, Forever, O Lord, Your Word is settled in heaven
Whom is it talking about?

when it says If Your Law had not been my delight I would have perished in my affliction,
to Whom does it point?

likewise, in Ps. 19 v. 7-9, these speak to the Lord Jesus.
the whole Old Testament is all about Jesus!
(yeah, i know, somehow the church began teaching it's about the Hebrews, but it's not)

The Bible.
it's not about Jews v Christians.
it's not about Sabbaths or rules or requirements or our failures or our 'successes'.
it's Jesus Christ.
full stop.