Women Preachers.
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Interesting Topic Sno. I planned on bringing it up myself in future discussion. I do have an idea though. Rather than open this topic to a debate will most likely turn into an open argument, why not have those who support women preachers start a thread as to why they support it and those who oppose could start a thread of their own as to why they oppose. Each group can read one another's thread however, they will not be allowed to directly respond in the thread of the opposing viewpoint nor will they be allowed to cut and paste from a post from an opposing post. The idea here is to open dialog without opening pandora's box (aka CHAOS).
What do you think?
What do you think?
If we can't directly respond in the thread, we can't have a dialouge... We'll just have two threads with opposing monologues... People would likely just go to the thread where they are comfortable. This would cause people to be reinforced in their own opinions without having to even consider the opposing group if they didn't want to.
In the end, I think this would just create feeling of "We're right" among both groups because neither one would have to see the valid points the other group has. Instead of being challenged by wise Christians on the opposing side, they would be surrounded by people who think like them and settle into cognitive laziness, never testing what they believe.
While it would be fine to have a place where each side can meet without fear of debates, there also needs to be a third post where actual dialouge can happen. I understand the dangers of opening Pandora's Box, but remember evil wasn't the only thing that came out when it was opened. In the end, Hope came out too.
Yes, some people are not mature enough to discuss without arguing and attacking. But that's what the mods are here for. To keep us on track if things get out of hand. And if someone gets nasty they can be reported.
So I say, if separate threads for each point of view are wanted, that's fine. But keep one thread for interactive dialouge so that we can learn from each other.
In the end, I think this would just create feeling of "We're right" among both groups because neither one would have to see the valid points the other group has. Instead of being challenged by wise Christians on the opposing side, they would be surrounded by people who think like them and settle into cognitive laziness, never testing what they believe.
While it would be fine to have a place where each side can meet without fear of debates, there also needs to be a third post where actual dialouge can happen. I understand the dangers of opening Pandora's Box, but remember evil wasn't the only thing that came out when it was opened. In the end, Hope came out too.
Yes, some people are not mature enough to discuss without arguing and attacking. But that's what the mods are here for. To keep us on track if things get out of hand. And if someone gets nasty they can be reported.
So I say, if separate threads for each point of view are wanted, that's fine. But keep one thread for interactive dialouge so that we can learn from each other.
i happen to attend a fellowship with a woman teacher/preacher. i didnt choose it for that reason, but because i heard that the Lord was working among them in power. and i have found that to be the case. in my experience, where a man is not willing to step up and lead God will raise up a woman who is willing.
In 2 Timothy 3 from verse 1 its evident who should be a pastor (bishop), but we have outlived the days of God's guidance to church guidance which in many times have made the word of God of no effect.
Can we take the bible the way it is and know as peter said the word of God is of no personal interpretation.
In 1 Corinthians 14 it openly says a woman is not to teach in a church neither to upsurp authority over man sooo plain is it laid there yet we follow church and not the Bible while ordaining women preachers.I BELIEVE NO WOMAN SHOULD BE A PREACHER IN THE HOUSE OF GOD
JOSHUA
Can we take the bible the way it is and know as peter said the word of God is of no personal interpretation.
In 1 Corinthians 14 it openly says a woman is not to teach in a church neither to upsurp authority over man sooo plain is it laid there yet we follow church and not the Bible while ordaining women preachers.I BELIEVE NO WOMAN SHOULD BE A PREACHER IN THE HOUSE OF GOD
JOSHUA
The Bible is clear. There are a number of verses to consider, that relate to the role of women in the home and in the church, and references to women in ministry and what women did in/for the church, etc. There are a few things that can be used to try to promote the idea of women in authority (or teaching in the church), but:
1. We have to interpret the unclear in light of the clear
2. We have to be careful to not be biased by our feminist society/culture/upbringing
If we're biased by our own God-forsaken culture/society, then we might end up interpreting the clear in light of the unclear, which is what a lot of people do on this topic, to try to make it fit in with "today" (or their own thinking which is influenced by the culture of today).
So yah, 2 Tim 2 and 1 Cor 14 (esp. vs. 34-35) answer this question very clearly. Any other "unclear" references should be interpreted in light of (or with) these very clear instructions.
And by the way, Paul even covered the "cultural" argument -- right there in 1 Tim 2 he said that a woman should not teach or have authority over a man [in the church] because Adam was made first. Hence, the instruction here in the scripture is not based on some archaic inferior culture of that particular time. Rather, it's based on creation -- the roles that God made man and woman for (in the home and in the church). Perhaps our own culture is the problem? Perhaps what's "cultural" is not this scripture, but people's interpretation/bias. We're so influenced by our culture in interpreting the scriptures. Anyway............
This is a good topic which can be further explored in some way at some time here (and I'm sure it will come up regularly, and it needs to).
1. We have to interpret the unclear in light of the clear
2. We have to be careful to not be biased by our feminist society/culture/upbringing
If we're biased by our own God-forsaken culture/society, then we might end up interpreting the clear in light of the unclear, which is what a lot of people do on this topic, to try to make it fit in with "today" (or their own thinking which is influenced by the culture of today).
So yah, 2 Tim 2 and 1 Cor 14 (esp. vs. 34-35) answer this question very clearly. Any other "unclear" references should be interpreted in light of (or with) these very clear instructions.
And by the way, Paul even covered the "cultural" argument -- right there in 1 Tim 2 he said that a woman should not teach or have authority over a man [in the church] because Adam was made first. Hence, the instruction here in the scripture is not based on some archaic inferior culture of that particular time. Rather, it's based on creation -- the roles that God made man and woman for (in the home and in the church). Perhaps our own culture is the problem? Perhaps what's "cultural" is not this scripture, but people's interpretation/bias. We're so influenced by our culture in interpreting the scriptures. Anyway............
This is a good topic which can be further explored in some way at some time here (and I'm sure it will come up regularly, and it needs to).
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As in John's day I cannot get caught up in what someone's interpretation is or isn't but trust that His word will not return void. I personally don't agree with the fact that there are women pastors but I will not let it deter me from the truth that His Word will go forth. Men and Women we are certainly called for such a time as this, and I am sure this nor anything that comes will take our God by surprise! Let's not look to the left or right but put our hand to the plow and press straight forward. We have been called to the "Great Comission".
N
Again we must first understand the definitions of the words Church, Pastor and Preach :
According to the Word, the Church is not a meeting place, it is an entity (Acts 9:31)....the Body of Christ (Roman 12:5)....His' future Bride (Rev 19:7). This is not to be confused with a synagogue (a jewish house of worship), whereas Paul in 1 Cor, says it is unlawful for a woman to speak or show authority over man.
Pastor: And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.
Ephesians 4:10-12 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter) ...Pastors are them that God appoints to oversee a congregation (a body of believers, a church....whereas a
Preacher: is merely one whom proclaims, one whom preaches.....and according to the Word of God (Mark 16:15), we as Christians are charged to go forth and Preach the Gospel. Nowhere in the Word have I read that women cannot preach...nowhere. A preacher is someone whom proclaims the Gospel. Is a woman not to tell anyone that Christ died for her? Or that He rose again inorder that she might live? If so; then whats the purpose of her conversion if she can not proclaim the good news. I don't believe a woman should Pastor, but it doesn't say that a woman can not preach the Gospel and /or share her' testimony which may lead to someones' conversion (whether it be a male or female). We understand that Pastors can preach....Evangelist can preach, so can Prophets and Christian converts....but not all whom preach, Pastor (oversee a congregation).When Mary came back from the empty tomb and told the Apostles (whom where in doubt, I might add) that Christ had risen; what did she do? She preached to them the Gospel (however short the message was), that he had risen. Was she wrong in doing this? God forbid...She preached, yet she wasn't a Pastor.
Lets not forget Priscilla, whom along with her' husband (Aquila) taught Paul a thing or two : He began to speak freely (fearlessly and boldly) in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him with them and expounded to him the way of God more definitely and accurately.
Acts 18:25-27 (in Context) Acts 18 (Whole Chapter) .... WHAT!!!!!!!! a woman expounded to Paul the way of God more definitely and accurately?????? *smile* people....I didn't say this, the Word says this.......nChrist
According to the Word, the Church is not a meeting place, it is an entity (Acts 9:31)....the Body of Christ (Roman 12:5)....His' future Bride (Rev 19:7). This is not to be confused with a synagogue (a jewish house of worship), whereas Paul in 1 Cor, says it is unlawful for a woman to speak or show authority over man.
Pastor: And His gifts were [varied; He Himself appointed and gave men to us] some to be apostles (special messengers), some prophets (inspired preachers and expounders), some evangelists (preachers of the Gospel, traveling missionaries), some pastors (shepherds of His flock) and teachers.
Ephesians 4:10-12 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter) ...Pastors are them that God appoints to oversee a congregation (a body of believers, a church....whereas a
Preacher: is merely one whom proclaims, one whom preaches.....and according to the Word of God (Mark 16:15), we as Christians are charged to go forth and Preach the Gospel. Nowhere in the Word have I read that women cannot preach...nowhere. A preacher is someone whom proclaims the Gospel. Is a woman not to tell anyone that Christ died for her? Or that He rose again inorder that she might live? If so; then whats the purpose of her conversion if she can not proclaim the good news. I don't believe a woman should Pastor, but it doesn't say that a woman can not preach the Gospel and /or share her' testimony which may lead to someones' conversion (whether it be a male or female). We understand that Pastors can preach....Evangelist can preach, so can Prophets and Christian converts....but not all whom preach, Pastor (oversee a congregation).When Mary came back from the empty tomb and told the Apostles (whom where in doubt, I might add) that Christ had risen; what did she do? She preached to them the Gospel (however short the message was), that he had risen. Was she wrong in doing this? God forbid...She preached, yet she wasn't a Pastor.
Lets not forget Priscilla, whom along with her' husband (Aquila) taught Paul a thing or two : He began to speak freely (fearlessly and boldly) in the synagogue; but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him with them and expounded to him the way of God more definitely and accurately.
Acts 18:25-27 (in Context) Acts 18 (Whole Chapter) .... WHAT!!!!!!!! a woman expounded to Paul the way of God more definitely and accurately?????? *smile* people....I didn't say this, the Word says this.......nChrist
S
I have not Read this whole thing, but it provides Biblical insight and Scripture references.
http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html
N
I tend to agree with NChrist on this one. While I would feel a bit uncomfortable with a woman pastor or a woman deacon however, I do know that a woman can have (and lead) a very effective ministry for Christ. Mind you, my reasoning for not wanting a woman or pastor does not mean that I view women as incompetent or inferior in any way but rather, I need to feel confident that she is fully submitted to her church leaders as well as her husband.
On the other hand I would feel very uncomfortable in a church where a woman's input was not welcome nor allows women to use their God given gifts and talents to benefit others. I feel that there is absolutely no room in the church for male chauvenism or liberal feminism.
You see, considering everything that have I read and studied in scripture,it is obvious to me that from the very beginning God has indeed established order. In essence, I view the church in the same sense as I do a marriage. God being the centerpiece, the husband being the head of the household with the wife being the heart (nurturer) of the household. I feel that while a wife's role may be different than the husband's, it's just as important. I view the church in the same light again with God as the centerpiece, Christ (the bridegroom) being the head and the church (the bride) being the body (nurturer). Basically it all boils down to (no matter what role you are in) our willingness to be fully submited to God and to those that God has placed in authority us in our lives. Any deviation of this could and most likely will lead to some sort of misleading or worse, a catastrophe.
However, just as Daddycat has alluded to, there are situations where God will use a woman to lead when no man is willing to step up. My case in point being Deborah whose story can be found in the book of Judges Chapters 4 & 5.
For those not familiar, Deborah was a prophetess and a Judge over the nation of Isreal. Through Deborah God called Barak to raise up an army to defend Isreal against Canaan. However Barrack was fearful and would not make a move without Deborah. While God give Isreal the victory, because of Barrack's fear, God would take from Barrak the opportunity to become leader over Isreal by delivering the life of Barrak's chief enemy over to a woman (Jael) rather than putting trust in Barrak to do it himself.
S
"15 But women[a] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
There are two basic interpretations offered to explain this verse.
1) That the salvation here refers to spiritual salvation. It is pointed out that the definite article precedes the word "Childbearing" and should "the childbearing," thus referring to the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15, 16. Therefore , according to this view, Paul is saying that, while it was a woman that paved the war for the incarnation at Bethlehem.
2) That the "salvation" here is from a doctrinal error and warns against women teaching deceptions.
There are two basic interpretations offered to explain this verse.
1) That the salvation here refers to spiritual salvation. It is pointed out that the definite article precedes the word "Childbearing" and should "the childbearing," thus referring to the seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15, 16. Therefore , according to this view, Paul is saying that, while it was a woman that paved the war for the incarnation at Bethlehem.
2) That the "salvation" here is from a doctrinal error and warns against women teaching deceptions.
K
i personally believe there should be NO WOMEN PREACHERS xD as in preaching in there church to other men.
1Ti 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Co 14:34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
1Co 14:35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
And another point:
Tit 1:6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
so to be an elder/overseer they must be "the husband of but one wife", which wouls mean for a woman to be an elder she would have to marry "but one wife" which is also not biblical. Preachers like Joyce Meyers could be awesome if they stuck to preaching to women and not the men in the congregation.
1Ti 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1Co 14:34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
1Co 14:35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
And another point:
Tit 1:6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.
so to be an elder/overseer they must be "the husband of but one wife", which wouls mean for a woman to be an elder she would have to marry "but one wife" which is also not biblical. Preachers like Joyce Meyers could be awesome if they stuck to preaching to women and not the men in the congregation.
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