The Sabbath was given to God's children.
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R
nowhere in the bible does it ever say that anyone is excluded from the church on the basis of the sabbath...in fact scripture says the opposite...
you can claim all you want that you believe in salvation by grace...but that is a lie...because here you are clearly promoting salvation by works...claiming that it is sabbath keeping that includes someone with God's people...
so actually it is -you- who are excluded from the church...because you come preaching -another gospel-
you can claim all you want that you believe in salvation by grace...but that is a lie...because here you are clearly promoting salvation by works...claiming that it is sabbath keeping that includes someone with God's people...
so actually it is -you- who are excluded from the church...because you come preaching -another gospel-
R
scripture actually -tells us- the commands and laws and statutes God gave to abraham...
genesis 12:1..."The Lord had said to Abram, 'Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you."
genesis 13:17..."Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you."
genesis 15:1..."After this, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: 'Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.'"
genesis 15:9..."So the Lord said to him, 'Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.'"
genesis 17:1..."When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, 'I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless."
genesis 17:9-14..."Then God said to Abraham, 'As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.'"
genesis 17:15..."God also said to Abraham, 'As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah."
genesis 21:12..."But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."
genesis 22:2..."Then God said, 'Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.'"
genesis 22:12..."'Do not lay a hand on the boy,' he said. 'Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.'"
there is not one word about the sabbath in -any- of the commands God gave to abraham...
you can try all you want to find your idol on every page of scripture...but the fact is that scripture records absolutely no command regarding the sabbath until exodus 16:23...
genesis 12:1..."The Lord had said to Abram, 'Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you."
genesis 13:17..."Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you."
genesis 15:1..."After this, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: 'Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your very great reward.'"
genesis 15:9..."So the Lord said to him, 'Bring me a heifer, a goat and a ram, each three years old, along with a dove and a young pigeon.'"
genesis 17:1..."When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, 'I am God Almighty; walk before me faithfully and be blameless."
genesis 17:9-14..."Then God said to Abraham, 'As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.'"
genesis 17:15..."God also said to Abraham, 'As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah."
genesis 21:12..."But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."
genesis 22:2..."Then God said, 'Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.'"
genesis 22:12..."'Do not lay a hand on the boy,' he said. 'Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.'"
there is not one word about the sabbath in -any- of the commands God gave to abraham...
you can try all you want to find your idol on every page of scripture...but the fact is that scripture records absolutely no command regarding the sabbath until exodus 16:23...
R
the hebrew word 'torah' is also used in scripture to refer to teaching from a parent...
proverbs 1:8..."Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction and do not forsake your mother’s teaching"
proverbs 3:1..."My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart,"
proverbs 4:2..."I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching."
so you cannot point to the hebrew term 'torah' in genesis 26:5 and assume it is the law of moses with the ten commandments and so on...
proverbs 1:8..."Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction and do not forsake your mother’s teaching"
proverbs 3:1..."My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart,"
proverbs 4:2..."I give you sound learning, so do not forsake my teaching."
so you cannot point to the hebrew term 'torah' in genesis 26:5 and assume it is the law of moses with the ten commandments and so on...
R
anyway here is decisive proof from scripture that abraham did -not- have the torah of moses...
galatians 3:17..."What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise."
you can either believe scripture or reject it...
galatians 3:17..."What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise."
you can either believe scripture or reject it...
R
you cannot assume that 'commandments' in revelation 14:12 refers specifically to the ten commandments...the same greek word is used in other ways...
1 corinthians 14:37..."If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command."
colossians 4:10..."My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. (You have received instructions about him; if he comes to you, welcome him.)"
incidentally among 'the lord's commands' paul gives in 1 corinthians 14...again using the same word for 'commandments' from revelation 14:12...is the commandment that disqualifies ellen white...so her church does not 'keep the commandments of God'
1 corinthians 14:37..."If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command."
colossians 4:10..."My fellow prisoner Aristarchus sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. (You have received instructions about him; if he comes to you, welcome him.)"
incidentally among 'the lord's commands' paul gives in 1 corinthians 14...again using the same word for 'commandments' from revelation 14:12...is the commandment that disqualifies ellen white...so her church does not 'keep the commandments of God'
Why label it Mosaic Law? Throughout the Pentateuch we find this...
Exo 25:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Let's read some more of Paul's writings...
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Sin is not imputed when there is no Law. What are the wages of sin?
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Hmmm, we put these together and find that people sinned and died prior to Mt. Sinai.
Paul said what about sin?
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
and John says...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And we read...
Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
and the act would have been what? Adultery.
We find the word sin occurring 10 times prior to Ex 20.
We find this in Exodus 16...
Exo 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Not really difficult to figure out that the fourth Commandment was in effect before Ex 20.
This is said of Abraham...
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So was the Law in effect prior to Ex 20? Was it given again to a people that had been in slavery for around 200 years because they had lost the knowledge? Yes.
Exo 25:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Let's read some more of Paul's writings...
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Sin is not imputed when there is no Law. What are the wages of sin?
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Hmmm, we put these together and find that people sinned and died prior to Mt. Sinai.
Paul said what about sin?
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
and John says...
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And we read...
Gen 20:9 Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
and the act would have been what? Adultery.
We find the word sin occurring 10 times prior to Ex 20.
We find this in Exodus 16...
Exo 16:25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Exo 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
Exo 16:27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Not really difficult to figure out that the fourth Commandment was in effect before Ex 20.
This is said of Abraham...
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
So was the Law in effect prior to Ex 20? Was it given again to a people that had been in slavery for around 200 years because they had lost the knowledge? Yes.
So what I am to understand from this is that God changes the Law and the Commandments every whipstitch. There is nothing consistent about it and who knows what version we are on today? V2.1? Maybe V6.7? Or even V39.4?
What Law are we on today and how many times has God changed it hoping to finally get it right?
What Law are we on today and how many times has God changed it hoping to finally get it right?
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R
actually the KJV says this...
galatians 3:17..."And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."
and the NKJV says this...
galatians 3:17..."And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect."
so the law was given 430 years after abraham...
...but i sense another attempt to rewrite scripture coming!
galatians 3:17..."And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."
and the NKJV says this...
galatians 3:17..."And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect."
so the law was given 430 years after abraham...
...but i sense another attempt to rewrite scripture coming!
R
what we have here is someone trying to use convoluted 'scriptural' arguments to justify his refusal to believe -clear scripture-...
galatians 3:17..."What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise."
for one thing scripture clearly states that it is possible to sin and perish -apart from the law-...
romans 2:12..."All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
so what 'law' did abraham have? not the law of moses...but the law of conscience...
romans 2:14-15..."Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them."
galatians 3:17..."What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise."
for one thing scripture clearly states that it is possible to sin and perish -apart from the law-...
romans 2:12..."All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law."
so what 'law' did abraham have? not the law of moses...but the law of conscience...
romans 2:14-15..."Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them."
R
actually yes...God has been known to issue new commandments when he sees fit...for example...
john 13:34..."A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
if you want to see the 'latest' version of God's commandments...check the new testament...and you won't find a command to observe the sabbath anywhere in there...
john 13:34..."A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."
if you want to see the 'latest' version of God's commandments...check the new testament...and you won't find a command to observe the sabbath anywhere in there...