Teen Burned Alive

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There's this idea that Muslims are the worst of warmongers but I'm afraid that's just not true. The American Military and NATO kill far more people every year than Muslims do. Far, far more. A warmonger is a warmonger, whether they profess to be whatever religion.

Real pious people want peace, not war.
It's more than idea...Muslims who follow their religion of Islam by the "book" (which is the Qur'an) ARE warmongers and murderers. You are obviously ignorant about the truth of Islam and have been thoroughly "brainwashed" by the lie that Islam is a religion of peace. Comparing the American Military (which defends and protects our country from the Islamic warmongers and murderers) and NATO is like comparing apples to oranges.

Islam’s Peace

Hunt, Dave

Mar 1 2003

That Islam is “peace and tolerance” is the most popular lie in the world today. Intellectuals in the West who defame Christ parrot the most fatuous praise of Muhammad, in spite of his legacy of murder, pillage and rape. A Sesame Street-type Arabic TV program features children training to be suicide bombers and chanting “Death to Israel”—for peace, of course. Reporter Ann Coulter suggests, “Inasmuch as liberals are demanding that Americans ritualistically proclaim, ‘Islam is a religion of peace,’ Muslims might do their part by not killing people all the time.” 1

That our leaders promote this lie, and that so many believe it without one fact to support it, bodes ill for America and the world. We only ask Muslims for one example of where and when Islam ever brought peace and tolerance—and please don’t threaten us with death (the standard Islamic persuasion) for asking!

Never forget that Muslims slaughtered and conquered “for Allah” from Spain to China. These Arab conquests ( defensive battles, they claim) were “more rapid than the Roman, more lasting than the Mongol...the most amazing feat in military history.” 2

Islam’s founder, Muhammad, began his career attacking rich caravans passing near his base in Medina. The first three assaults failed. The fourth succeeded because the victims were surprised by an ambush during Ramadan. Arab tribes had long refrained from aggression in that “holy month.” Muhammad, however, had received a “revelation” authorizing plunder and murder in Allah’s name during this special time of peace (Surah 2:217). Another absolved the Muslims of killing: “Ye slew them not, but Allah slew them” (Surah 8:17).

Most Muslims don’t realize that in observing Ramadan and the annual pilgrimage ( hajj ) to Mecca, they follow what pagan Arabs practiced for centuries before Muhammad was born (see TBC Feb ’00 ). Had President Bush known the truth instead of the misinformation fed to him by Cleveland State University law professor David F. Forte, 3 he might not have hosted a White House dinner honoring “the holy month Ramadan,” nor flattered Muslims saying “all the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements.” Benefit ?

Challenged to do miracles like Christ, Muhammad could do none. On March 16, 624, near Badr, he led 300 warriors in a vicious attack against a large Meccan caravan protected by a force of 800. Some 40 Meccans were killed and 60 taken prisoner to a loss of only 14 Muslims. This amazing victory was seen as the attesting miracle Muhammad needed. As a result, the ranks of Muslims swelled with those eager to share in future plunder.

Having proved himself the prophet of Allah with the sword, Muhammad sealed his apostleship with more than twenty murders, beginning with al-Nadr, an old enemy from Mecca. Taken captive in the battle at Badr, he pleaded that the Meccan Qur’aish tribe would never kill captives. Muhammad had him beheaded anyway, justifying the deed with another “revelation”: “It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land” (Surah 8:67).

Much of the growing Muslim wealth came from robbing and killing Jews, causing “the disappearance of these Jewish communities from Arabia proper” 4 —justified by a further “revelation” (Surah 33:26,27). To this day, by law no Jew may set foot in Saudi Arabia.

A number of poets were murdered at Muhammad’s behest for having mocked him in verse. The first was the poetess Asma bint Marwan, stabbed to death by Umayr while she was nursing her youngest child. The poet Abu Afak (reportedly more than 100 years old) was murdered next. Then came the Jewish poet Ka’b bin al-Ashraf. A timely “revelation” said all poets were inspired of Satan (Surah 26:221-227).

Does it bother today’s Muslims that murder, rape, plunder and slavery of innocent people were the accepted way of life upon which Islam was founded and still operates? Apparently not. Ka’b’s murder (the account slanted with fictitious details) is justified on a popular Muslim web site, revealing Islam’s peculiar meaning of “peace” and “justice”:

Ka’b had become a real danger to the state of peace and mutual trust which the Prophet was struggling to achieve in Madinah....The Prophet was quite exasperated with him....This was all part of the great process ...which helped to make Islam spread and establish it on foundations of justice and piety . 5 [Emphasis added]

Christ left Christians “an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not...[but] bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness...” (1 Peter 2:21-24). But the Muslim must follow the example of Muhammad who killed all who dared to disagree with him!

A Christian must “know” God (Jeremiah 9:24; John17:3), “love” God with all his heart (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37, etc.) and “believe” in Christ in his heart (Acts 8:37; Romans 10:9). The God of the Bible wants man’s trust and affection without coercion.

In contrast, Allah can be neither known nor loved. Nor does one even have to believe to become a Muslim. Under threat of death, one merely recites aloud, “There is no ila (god) but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” This “conversion without faith” was established when Abu Sufyan, a Qur’aish leader, upon surrendering Mecca in 630 to Muhammad and his superior army, admitted that he doubted the latter’s prophethood. He was warned, “‘Accept Islam and testify that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah before your neck is cut off by the sword.’ Thus [without believing] he professed the faith of Islam and became a Muslim.”6 This pattern is followed today: confess or die!

Upon Muhammad’s death in A.D. 632, many Arabs attempted to abandon Islam. Abu Bakr (the first caliph to succeed Muhammad) and his warriors in the infamous Wars of Apostasy killed tens of thousands of ex-Muslims, forcing Arabia back into Islam. Muhammad had commanded, “Whoever relinquishes his faith, kill him.” Islam is still enforced this way under shari’a (Islamic law) in Saudi Arabia and wherever Muslims are able to do so. This is peace and tolerance ?!

Endnotes

1. Ann Coulter.
2. Will Durant, The Story of Civilization (Simon and Schuster, 1950), IV: 188.
3. Imprimis (Oct 2002), 2-6; Serge Trifkovic, The Sword of the Prophet: The Politically Incorrect
4. Guide to Islam (Regina Orthodox Press, 2002), 83-84.
5. W. N. Arafat, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, 1976, 100-107.
6. www.islam101.com/people/companions/maslamah.html.
7. Cf. Ibn Hisham, part 4 of his Biography of the Prophet, cited in Trifkovic, Sword, 48.
8. Trifkovic, Sword, 112.
9. Michael J. Arlen, Passage to Ararat (Ruminator Books, 2002), 224.
10. Nicholas Gage, Greek Fire (Alfred A. Knopf, 2000), cited in Trifkovic, 125.

Continued here
 
It's more than idea...Muslims who follow their religion of Islam by the "book" (which is the Qur'an) ARE warmongers and murderers. You are obviously ignorant about the truth of Islam and have been thoroughly "brainwashed" by the lie that Islam is a religion of peace. Comparing the American Military (which defends and protects our country from the Islamic warmongers and murderers) and NATO is like comparing apples to oranges.

Islam’s Peace

Hunt, Dave

Mar 1 2003

That Islam is “peace and tolerance” is the most popular lie in the world today. Intellectuals in the West who defame Christ parrot the most fatuous praise of Muhammad, in spite of his legacy of murder, pillage and rape. A Sesame Street-type Arabic TV program features children training to be suicide bombers and chanting “Death to Israel”—for peace, of course. Reporter Ann Coulter suggests, “Inasmuch as liberals are demanding that Americans ritualistically proclaim, ‘Islam is a religion of peace,’ Muslims might do their part by not killing people all the time.” 1

That our leaders promote this lie, and that so many believe it without one fact to support it, bodes ill for America and the world. We only ask Muslims for one example of where and when Islam ever brought peace and tolerance—and please don’t threaten us with death (the standard Islamic persuasion) for asking!

Never forget that Muslims slaughtered and conquered “for Allah” from Spain to China. These Arab conquests ( defensive battles, they claim) were “more rapid than the Roman, more lasting than the Mongol...the most amazing feat in military history.” 2

Islam’s founder, Muhammad, began his career attacking rich caravans passing near his base in Medina. The first three assaults failed. The fourth succeeded because the victims were surprised by an ambush during Ramadan. Arab tribes had long refrained from aggression in that “holy month.” Muhammad, however, had received a “revelation” authorizing plunder and murder in Allah’s name during this special time of peace (Surah 2:217). Another absolved the Muslims of killing: “Ye slew them not, but Allah slew them” (Surah 8:17).

Most Muslims don’t realize that in observing Ramadan and the annual pilgrimage ( hajj ) to Mecca, they follow what pagan Arabs practiced for centuries before Muhammad was born (see TBC Feb ’00 ). Had President Bush known the truth instead of the misinformation fed to him by Cleveland State University law professor David F. Forte, 3 he might not have hosted a White House dinner honoring “the holy month Ramadan,” nor flattered Muslims saying “all the world continues to benefit from this faith and its achievements.” Benefit ?

Challenged to do miracles like Christ, Muhammad could do none. On March 16, 624, near Badr, he led 300 warriors in a vicious attack against a large Meccan caravan protected by a force of 800. Some 40 Meccans were killed and 60 taken prisoner to a loss of only 14 Muslims. This amazing victory was seen as the attesting miracle Muhammad needed. As a result, the ranks of Muslims swelled with those eager to share in future plunder.

Having proved himself the prophet of Allah with the sword, Muhammad sealed his apostleship with more than twenty murders, beginning with al-Nadr, an old enemy from Mecca. Taken captive in the battle at Badr, he pleaded that the Meccan Qur’aish tribe would never kill captives. Muhammad had him beheaded anyway, justifying the deed with another “revelation”: “It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land” (Surah 8:67).

Much of the growing Muslim wealth came from robbing and killing Jews, causing “the disappearance of these Jewish communities from Arabia proper” 4 —justified by a further “revelation” (Surah 33:26,27). To this day, by law no Jew may set foot in Saudi Arabia.

A number of poets were murdered at Muhammad’s behest for having mocked him in verse. The first was the poetess Asma bint Marwan, stabbed to death by Umayr while she was nursing her youngest child. The poet Abu Afak (reportedly more than 100 years old) was murdered next. Then came the Jewish poet Ka’b bin al-Ashraf. A timely “revelation” said all poets were inspired of Satan (Surah 26:221-227).

Does it bother today’s Muslims that murder, rape, plunder and slavery of innocent people were the accepted way of life upon which Islam was founded and still operates? Apparently not. Ka’b’s murder (the account slanted with fictitious details) is justified on a popular Muslim web site, revealing Islam’s peculiar meaning of “peace” and “justice”:

Ka’b had become a real danger to the state of peace and mutual trust which the Prophet was struggling to achieve in Madinah....The Prophet was quite exasperated with him....This was all part of the great process ...which helped to make Islam spread and establish it on foundations of justice and piety . 5 [Emphasis added]

Christ left Christians “an example, that ye should follow his steps: who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not...[but] bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness...” (1 Peter 2:21-24). But the Muslim must follow the example of Muhammad who killed all who dared to disagree with him!

A Christian must “know” God (Jeremiah 9:24; John17:3), “love” God with all his heart (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37, etc.) and “believe” in Christ in his heart (Acts 8:37; Romans 10:9). The God of the Bible wants man’s trust and affection without coercion.

In contrast, Allah can be neither known nor loved. Nor does one even have to believe to become a Muslim. Under threat of death, one merely recites aloud, “There is no ila (god) but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” This “conversion without faith” was established when Abu Sufyan, a Qur’aish leader, upon surrendering Mecca in 630 to Muhammad and his superior army, admitted that he doubted the latter’s prophethood. He was warned, “‘Accept Islam and testify that Muhammad is the apostle of Allah before your neck is cut off by the sword.’ Thus [without believing] he professed the faith of Islam and became a Muslim.”6 This pattern is followed today: confess or die!

Upon Muhammad’s death in A.D. 632, many Arabs attempted to abandon Islam. Abu Bakr (the first caliph to succeed Muhammad) and his warriors in the infamous Wars of Apostasy killed tens of thousands of ex-Muslims, forcing Arabia back into Islam. Muhammad had commanded, “Whoever relinquishes his faith, kill him.” Islam is still enforced this way under shari’a (Islamic law) in Saudi Arabia and wherever Muslims are able to do so. This is peace and tolerance ?!

Endnotes

1. Ann Coulter.
2. Will Durant, The Story of Civilization (Simon and Schuster, 1950), IV: 188.
3. Imprimis (Oct 2002), 2-6; Serge Trifkovic, The Sword of the Prophet: The Politically Incorrect
4. Guide to Islam (Regina Orthodox Press, 2002), 83-84.
5. W. N. Arafat, Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland, 1976, 100-107.
6. www.islam101.com/people/companions/maslamah.html.
7. Cf. Ibn Hisham, part 4 of his Biography of the Prophet, cited in Trifkovic, Sword, 48.
8. Trifkovic, Sword, 112.
9. Michael J. Arlen, Passage to Ararat (Ruminator Books, 2002), 224.
10. Nicholas Gage, Greek Fire (Alfred A. Knopf, 2000), cited in Trifkovic, 125.

Continued here

Brainwashed? And this is coming from an American? I personally know many Muslims who in fact are kind-hearted, soft-tempered people who want nothing more than fighting to cease.
 
You're wrong. The American military and NATO do not war to advance Christianity. It is because Muslims engage in sweeping violence around the globe to spread Islam that the American military and NATO have responded with GWOT. Responding to Muslim terrorism to contain and minimize is a legitimate uses of force. As usual, you're all screwed up.

I never said they war to advance Christianity. I said they're responsible for far more deaths than Muslims are. I said Bush invaded Iraq in God's name. And I said real pious people, whatever religion, will want peace, not war.
 
Violence is an integral part of the false religious system's epistemology as has been clearly shown to you. It's estimated that about 15% of Muslims participate in or directly support the aim of violence to further Islam.

Look at it this way, there are 235,500,000 million Muslims that participate in or directly support using violence to propagate Islam.

The polls taken show those who simply agree with using violence (but don't actually participate in it or directly support those who do) are far higher:

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK - Telegraph
NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
Many British Muslims Put Islam First - CBS News
WebCite query result

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
A Year After Iraq War | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/Topics/Religious_Affiliation/Muslim/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
al-Jazeera (2006): 49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
Osama Bin Laden Al Qaeda Leader Profile
World Public Opinion: Muslim majorities agree with the al-Qaeda goal of Islamic law.
Muslim majorities agree with al-Qaeda goal of keeping Western values out of Islamic countries;
(Egypt: 88%; Indonesia 76%; Pakistan 60%; Morocco 64%)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailweekly.asp?fileid=20060728.@03
Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
Support for Suicide Bombings and Bin Laden Still High Among Some Muslims | CNS News (Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)
Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Mail Online
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf
Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
Six Country Immigrant Integration Comparative Survey (SCIICS) | WZB
Europe: Islamic Fundamentalism is Widespread

Etc... etc... etc...

^ That's the point. So your assertion is yet again, as usual, shown to be false.

Not unlike the plethora of American Christians who think the genocides in the East are warranted and Muslims should be persecuted.
 
CNS News panel asked by an American Muslim why the Western media shows the bad part of the Islam

[video=youtube;nrmwB0bwtYQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrmwB0bwtYQ[/video]

Brainwashed? And this is coming from an American? I personally know many Muslims who in fact are kind-hearted, soft-tempered people who want nothing more than fighting to cease.
So? That is totally irrelavent when innocent people are murdered in cold blood by those who belong to a religion that teaches "convert or die". Those who are peaceful and kind-hearted are not "practicing the religion of Islam" by the "book" (the Qur'an). Read the article and watch this five minute video.
 
Don't you remember how Bush professed how the Christian God had asked him to go to war in the Middle East?

actually there is not a whole lot of evidence that bush ever actually said that...all mention of this in the media traces back to a single report quoting a single member of the palestinian authority...the statement was uncorroborated at best...
 
No they aren't. That's a lie. Please provide evidence that the American military and NATO are responsible for far more deaths than just the 70 million Hindus the Muslims slaughtered as an example. I won't even broach the other genocides and democides perpetuated by Muslims for this simple example of why you're making another false assertion.

Oh and getting in the way of a murderer and their intended victim(s) does not count because blood guilt is not on the one brave enough to prevent the Muslim murderer from murdering. So when the American military and NATO insert themselves between Muslims and their intended victims, it doesn't count as being "responsible for far more deaths" just to be clear with you.



I never said they war to advance Christianity. I said they're responsible for far more deaths than Muslims are. I said Bush invaded Iraq in God's name. And I said real pious people, whatever religion, will want peace, not war.
 
So? That is totally irrelavent when innocent people are murdered in cold blood by those who belong to a religion that teaches "convert or die". Those who are peaceful and kind-hearted are not "practicing the religion of Islam" by the "book" (the Qur'an). Read the article and watch this five minute video.

I spent a while in Turkey, a Muslim country. And at the mention of Al Qaeda, the Turks would baulk and curse. When I went to Dubai with my friend and his father, the Muslims there were the same. His father is from Yemen, originally, and he told us that the countries majority are peace loving people.

The woman answering that question is rude, and twisting the facts. In a worldwide poll by PEW, they asked if Muslims were concerned about extremism, not whether they were extremists. Up to 75% said they were concerned about extremism. It is more like a few percent of Muslims are extremists and about 10 - 30% of Muslims support the fight on the West, most of whom will undoubtedly live in Afghanistan and Iraq.

If NATO invaded my home and killed more than a million, I might feel similarly. It is partly the West's responsibility that extremism spread so much after the invasions. Watch a documentary called 'Dirty Wars'.

And this woman is an idiot. The peaceful majority are NEVER irrelevant. THEY are the ones NATO end up killing in droves. They are the ones extremists attack. They are the ones who suffer for war. And this young girl gets the idea. Addressing this problem with endless conflict will never, ever solve the problem. Never.

It needs to be addressed peacefully and ideologically. The demands from many Al Qaeda sects are US military withdrawal. In my eyes, that is the only viable solution. That or an eventual nuke when the opposing forces become too large.

I know which one I prefer.
 
No they aren't. That's a lie. Please provide evidence that the American military and NATO are responsible for far more deaths than just the 70 million Hindus the Muslims slaughtered as an example. I won't even broach the other genocides and democides perpetuated by Muslims for this simple example of why you're making another false assertion.

Oh and getting in the way of a murderer and their intended victim(s) does not count because blood guilt is not on the one brave enough to prevent the Muslim murderer from murdering. So when the American military and NATO insert themselves between Muslims and their intended victims, it doesn't count as being "responsible for far more deaths" just to be clear with you.

1 million civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan at an extremely conservative estimate.
3+ million in Vietnam
Several million in Laos, Cambodia and Guam.
The South American Genocides, Contras etc
The instigation of the Iraqi Iranian War
Giving permission for Saddam to enter Quwait then invading Iraq
The massacres of Somalis by US condoned terrorists
The providing of weapons to the Mujahideen to fight the Russians

Etc Etc Etc. Meddling, instigating and controlling war. Not good leaders, and immoral.

Likewise, Timur Lane wasn't a genuine, pious Muslim, just like Genghis Khan wasn't a pious Shaman. The Israelis murder Palestinians much like the Catholics killed many in the Inquisitions.

None of it is any good.
 
Most people in the West don't want people who adhere to a false religious system that endorses murder, slavery, and a stone age religious legal system of great oppression in their nations working to destroy their civilizations and rob them of their liberty.

There are a small number of Westerners that desire to deport such people back to their countries of origin so that they can find the sharia and Islamic life they deeply crave; however, if done in a humanitarian manner that increases their financial net worth I'm not sure how you can call this persecution in the same sense that Muslims force non-Muslims to convert at the point of a sword or deport them with nothing.

Certainly there is no sizable percentage of Westerners endorsing "genocides in the East" and it certainly is not part of their religious epistemology as in the case of Islam where it actually is so you're engaging in more false assertions.

Please provide polling evidence showing that even a sizeable percentage of American Christians support "genocide in the East" or "Muslims should be persecuted." Since the polls actually tell the opposite story, it will be interesting watching you try to prove something that is not true.

Not unlike the plethora of American Christians who think the genocides in the East are warranted and Muslims should be persecuted.
 
Most people in the West don't want people who adhere to a false religious system that endorses murder, slavery, and a stone age religious legal system of great oppression in their nations working to destroy their civilizations and rob them of their liberty.

There are a small number of Westerners that desire to deport such people back to their countries of origin so that they can find the sharia and Islamic life they deeply crave; however, if done in a humanitarian manner that increases their financial net worth I'm not sure how you can call this persecution in the same sense that Muslims force non-Muslims to convert at the point of a sword or deport them with nothing.

Certainly there is no sizable percentage of Westerners endorsing "genocides in the East" and it certainly is not part of their religious epistemology as in the case of Islam where it actually is so you're engaging in more false assertions.

Please provide polling evidence showing that even a sizeable percentage of American Christians support "genocide in the East" or "Muslims should be persecuted." Since the polls actually tell the opposite story, it will be interesting watching you try to prove something that is not true.

The practical reality is that whether people endorse it or not doesn't seem to stop it from happening. So much the same as you label Muslims to be supportive of genocide, so I label westerners as supporters of genocide. Both applications of labels are fallacious assumptions that all people in a particular group think alike.

Whether or not you think 'real' Muslims must endorse genocide, the facts are that the vast majority do not endorse it, and whether Easterners think the American Christians endorse the genocides in Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact is that a large percentage do not endorse it.

This is the kind of point I continually try to make, up against one-sided arguments. One genocide is no better than another. One mass murder of innocent people is no better than another. You are not somehow morally superior to a pious and peaceful Muslim.
 
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Your figures are both false and presented in a disingenuous manner. For example, civilians were being murdered by the Iraqi government in Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan in material numbers before the war ever began and a report by scholars with the "Costs of War" project at Brown University's Watson Institute for International Studies shows that about 200,000 total people have been killed total in both wars including military personnel, contractors, and civilians.

Before I completely refute ALL of your false figures and reveal the large percentage of civilians killed not by Western powers but by Muslims as well as the large percentage of them that were active participants and killed in action despite being civilizans; are you sure you still want to stand behind these false figures that you posted and your false assertion that they are all innocent victims of the U.S. military. Think before you answer because you're about to look really ignorant and disingenuous again.

While you're thinking about it. Here's a fresh one for you: Islamist plot to blow up Eiffel Tower, Louvre and nuclear power plant foiled, say French police - Telegraph


1 million civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan at an extremely conservative estimate.
3+ million in Vietnam
Several million in Laos, Cambodia and Guam.
The South American Genocides, Contras etc
The instigation of the Iraqi Iranian War
Giving permission for Saddam to enter Quwait then invading Iraq
The massacres of Somalis by US condoned terrorists
The providing of weapons to the Mujahideen to fight the Russians
 
The practical reality is that Muslims are engaging in global terror against the West and the West is responding. All that has to happen is for Muslims to stop engaging in terrorism, genocide of non-Muslims, persecution of non-Muslims, etc... and the entire problem goes away.

You're so mixed up in your thinking and false assertions that you actually believe that people responding to stop Muslim perpetrators of terrorism on behalf of Islam actually means they too are terrorists. That's how ignorant and screwed up your thinking is.

Keep babbling nonsense if you like though. I support your right to blab nonsense unlike Muslims who don't like liberties like freedom of speech.


The practical reality is that whether people endorse it or not doesn't seem to stop it from happening. So much the same as you label Muslims to be supportive of genocide, so I label westerners as supporters of genocide. Both applications of labels are fallacious assumptions that all people in a particular group think alike.

Whether or not you think 'real' Muslims must endorse genocide, the facts are that the vast majority do not endorse it, and whether Easterners think the American Christians endorse the genocides in Iraq and Afghanistan, the fact is that a large percentage do not endorse it.

This is the kind of point I continually try to make, up against one-sided arguments. One genocide is no better than another. One mass murder of innocent people is no better than another. You are not somehow morally superior to a pious and peaceful Muslim.
 
The practical reality is that Muslims are engaging in global terror against the West and the West is responding. All that has to happen is for Muslims to stop engaging in terrorism, genocide of non-Muslims, persecution of non-Muslims, etc... and the entire problem goes away.

You're so mixed up in your thinking and false assertions that you actually believe that people responding to stop Muslim perpetrators of terrorism on behalf of Islam actually means they too are terrorists. That's how ignorant and screwed up your thinking is.

Keep babbling nonsense if you like though. I support your right to blab nonsense unlike Muslims who don't like liberties like freedom of speech.

AgeOfKnowledge, I genuinely find you very difficult to converse with simply because you keep resorting to belittling my character, calling what I write 'babble' and generally missing the point of everything. I clearly recognize that some Muslims fight in war, kill innocents and otherwise do awful things. But I also recognize that the West's war game is not just about defending the world against Muslims, or killing those responsible. We don't get to a million civilian deaths in the two countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, without actually killing innocent people.

I recognize that many people in the west don't endorse genocide against Muslims, and that many Muslims do not endorse extremist Islam. But I also recognize that since the beginning of this war on terror, the Muslim extremists have killed not even 100,000 innocent people (it's far less if you consider NATO soldiers not to be innocent), while NATO are responsible for the deaths of over one million innocents.

Similar is Northern Ireland a few decades ago. The British invaded the country a long time ago and some Irish have wanted their exit since. Never were they in Ireland by invitation. So the paramilitaries respond by doing awful things in return for awful things.

Similar is Israel. Land was taken from Palestinians who are now not even considered a genuine nation, and they fight Israelis, and both do horrible things to one another.

Every day, land is seized, conquered, taken over, people are killed, there are counter-killings and everything else. The US's 'kill-list' when they went into Afghanistan and Iraq was barely a few hundred, now it is in the thousands. Don't you understand that going into these countries and continuing this war only agitates circumstances? Fighting them with guns will not solve the problem. The West must negotiate somehow, to show that it wants a peace to all of this.

You cannot fight ideology with guns.

British OPB conducted a survey that estimated the casualties in Iraq alone as between 946,000 to 1.2 million. Lieutenant General Franks blatantly stated 'We don't do body counts', so honestly, how can you believe anything the American media put out about it?

The Guardian (a renowned British Newspaper) published a report in 2006 that there had been upwards of 600,000 civilian deaths. John Hopkins did a study yielding similar findings, as did Columbia University, Harvard University and Oxford University.

A friend of mine in the forces told me, word for word, 'The Americans have no regard for civilians; they are ill trained, ill-equipped and trigger happy.'

In the documentary 'Dirty Wars', the kill-list is shown to have children under ten years old on it. Children, AgeOfKnowledge.

Who will I believe?
 
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My point is not to blame the West, it is to show that a story has two ends and nobody can say that the West is innocent and righteous. We have meddled in these countries for too long.

I mean, what did anyone expect?
 
It's not surprising that the majority of Iraqis believe the country is economically and politically worse off than before the war.

''Majorities of Iraqi respondents say that the impact of the war has been negative with respect to their personal safety and security (72%), economic development and employment (66%), administration of government services (59%), and relations with neighboring countries (54%). One-half feel there has been a negative impact on political freedom (as opposed to one-third who say that political freedom has advanced). Similarly almost one-half of Iraqis feel the impact on education has been negative. The results are more mixed in terms of women’s rights (26% positive, 37% negative, 26% no impact).''

From a Zogby Poll's results.
 
I genuinely find you very difficult to converse with simply because you keep making false assertions and posting incorrect information.

Let me break it down for you again:

1. The false religious epistemology of the false religious system Islam is both inherently irreparable and irreparably in conflict with both Christianity AND secularism/state atheism.

2. The false religious epistemology of the false religious system Islam posits violence against non-Muslims to advance Islam and to assure a place in the fabricated carnal "paradise" that the false religious system incorrectly teaches exists but does not in reality.

This situation presents a limited number of viable options with containment and evangelism being two of them.

Muslims kill Muslims, Muslims kill non-Muslims, etc... Muslims kill Christian women and children. They rape the women too sometimes publicly right in the street. There are videos of it on You Tube. So what's your point? The reality is that if we aren't there they'll kill each other in droves and also try to extend their violence to where we are just as presently they kill each other and try to extend their violence to where we are.

You can't fix Islam. It's irreparable. And Islam, not us, is the root of the violence (a fact you continue to live in great denial of).

Laying down and letting them walk in and commit genocide and enslave the survivors as they did for centuries until the West grew strong enough to stop them from doing that is not an option. Truthfully, we should be deporting all Muslims that refuse to abandon the false religious system. It's self-destructive to grow large Muslim populations in Western nations.

Since that's your strategy you lay down belly up in surrender to the false religious system. The rest of us are not going to. We're going to continue to materially contain the threat and work to minimize the damage which does get through. Simultaneously, we're going to evangelize them with the truth (something that's becoming very difficult in apostate post-Christian nations).

Maybe the Muslims will win in the end due to the degeneracy and apostasy of the West in abandoning Christianity. Then all the liberals responsible for that occurring will live under sharia... lolol. It would serve them right.


AgeOfKnowledge, I genuinely find you very difficult to converse with simply because you keep resorting to belittling my character, calling what I write 'babble' and generally missing the point of everything. I clearly recognize that some Muslims fight in war, kill innocents and otherwise do awful things. But I also recognize that the West's war game is not just about defending the world against Muslims, or killing those responsible. We don't get to a million civilian deaths in the two countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, without actually killing innocent people.

I recognize that many people in the west don't endorse genocide against Muslims, and that many Muslims do not endorse extremist Islam. But I also recognize that since the beginning of this war on terror, the Muslim extremists have killed not even 100,000 innocent people (it's far less if you consider NATO soldiers not to be innocent), while NATO are responsible for the deaths of over one million innocents.

Similar is Northern Ireland a few decades ago. The British invaded the country a long time ago and some Irish have wanted their exit since. Never were they in Ireland by invitation. So the paramilitaries respond by doing awful things in return for awful things.

Similar is Israel. Land was taken from Palestinians who are now not even considered a genuine nation, and they fight Israelis, and both do horrible things to one another.

Every day, land is seized, conquered, taken over, people are killed, there are counter-killings and everything else. The US's 'kill-list' when they went into Afghanistan and Iraq was barely a few hundred, now it is in the thousands. Don't you understand that going into these countries and continuing this war only agitates circumstances? Fighting them with guns will not solve the problem. The West must negotiate somehow, to show that it wants a peace to all of this.

You cannot fight ideology with guns.

British OPB conducted a survey that estimated the casualties in Iraq alone as between 946,000 to 1.2 million. Lieutenant General Franks blatantly stated 'We don't do body counts', so honestly, how can you believe anything the American media put out about it?

The Guardian (a renowned British Newspaper) published a report in 2006 that there had been upwards of 600,000 civilian deaths. John Hopkins did a study yielding similar findings, as did Columbia University, Harvard University and Oxford University.

A friend of mine in the forces told me, word for word, 'The Americans have no regard for civilians; they are ill trained, ill-equipped and trigger happy.'

In the documentary 'Dirty Wars', the kill-list is shown to have children under ten years old on it. Children, AgeOfKnowledge.

Who will I believe?
 
I genuinely find you very difficult to converse with simply because you keep making false assertions and posting incorrect information.

Let me break it down for you again:

1. The false religious epistemology of the false religious system Islam is both inherently irreparable and irreparably in conflict with both Christianity AND secularism/state atheism.

2. The false religious epistemology of the false religious system Islam posits violence against non-Muslims to advance Islam and to assure a place in the fabricated carnal "paradise" that the false religious system incorrectly teaches exists but does not in reality.

This situation presents a limited number of viable options with containment and evangelism being two of them.

Muslims kill Muslims, Muslims kill non-Muslims, etc... Muslims kill Christian women and children. They rape the women too sometimes publicly right in the street. There are videos of it on You Tube. So what's your point? The reality is that if we aren't there they'll kill each other in droves and also try to extend their violence to where we are just as presently they kill each other and try to extend their violence to where we are.

You can't fix Islam. It's irreparable. And Islam, not us, is the root of the violence (a fact you continue to live in great denial of).

Laying down and letting them walk in and commit genocide and enslave the survivors as they did for centuries until the West grew strong enough to stop them from doing that is not an option. Truthfully, we should be deporting all Muslims that refuse to abandon the false religious system. It's self-destructive to grow large Muslim populations in Western nations.
Since that's your strategy you lay down belly up in surrender to the false religious system. The rest of us are not going to. We're going to continue to materially contain the threat and work to minimize the damage which does get through. Simultaneously, we're going to evangelize them with the truth (something that's becoming very difficult in apostate post-Christian nations).

Maybe the Muslims will win in the end due to the degeneracy and apostasy of the West in abandoning Christianity. Then all the liberals responsible for that occurring will live under sharia... lolol. It would serve them right.

Well let me tell you AgeOfKnowledge, it will most certainly not end well for you. This war will continue for a thousand years.
 
It will continue for as long as Islam exists. The problem IS Islam.

Well let me tell you AgeOfKnowledge, it will most certainly not end well for you. This war will continue for a thousand years.
 
It will continue for as long as Islam exists. The problem IS Islam. That said, I'm all for getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and just firewalling the whole area. We're spending trillions over there and it's mostly to protect our need for oil and to fund the powerful military-industrial complex. The U.S. is projected to be energy independent by 2035 and it will be interesting to see how Middle Eastern politics changes as a result of both domestic energy independence, an insane national debt by 2035, and a growing Muslim population of voters in Western countries.

Well let me tell you AgeOfKnowledge, it will most certainly not end well for you. This war will continue for a thousand years.