It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[newbirth]

Re: Faith is the Requirement; Don't Make the Tail Wag the Dog

Logically speaking if obedience did bring you salvation, that would not imply that there was no other way.

Obey is the odd man out in contrast with the many, many believe/faith only passages. There is an obedience that saves; it is obeying this commandment:

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Salvation is guaranteed to the believer. And it is a "must I do."

You must interpret scripture to agree with scripture. And since O NewB, you disobey, you are in trouble if you think by your self-righteous obedience you will make it. You are a sinner & must have a Savior.

Here is some of the believe/faith only passages, too many for one post on this forum:


.

The problem is not with scripture but with your understanding of scripture. Your teaching of faith and belief is void ...Faith without works is dead....A convert being told to believe and he will be saved does not do much for him. When one is told to believe in Christ it includes believing in his teachings. When one is taught the way of Christ and obeys his way ,that is called following.
[SUP]Eph 4[/SUP]

[SUP]17 [/SUP]This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have not so learned Christ;

[SUP]21 [/SUP]If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
[SUP]Rom 8
4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[newbirth]

Re: What Are the Obstacles to Trusting Christ as Savior?

What are the obstacles to trusting Christ as Savior?
One motive for writing Him off as Savior and demoting Him to mere "chance giver" could be the pride of man who will not admit that he is really such a bad sinner that nothing he does by way of works or obedience will bring him a verdict of "righteous" with God.

One big obstacle which is evident after so much debate here is that it appears that most of those who oppose Christ being the Savior Who gives eternal life with eternal security, oppose it based on their refusal to admit that salvation is by grace through faith. They want to add in works, though specifically scripture negates works.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

They find rare verses which speak of salvation in some other term besides faith/believe, and then want to insist that something else like water baptism or general commandment obedience is a condition for salvation -- and that despite the direct statement of scripture that works do not and cannot save. By taking this self-righteous perversion of the gospel, such persons insure their slavery to sin and their seat in the Lake of Fire.

The evidence both for salvation by faith/believing and for eternal security has been abundantly posted. As for me, I believe with all my heart that His name is Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Having confessed that I was a total sinner, I have put my trust in Him and in His substitutionary death on the cross for my salvation. My eternal security in Him is not an incentive to sin. The love of Christ constrains me, and He saves me from my sins.

As a recipient of a new nature and as indwelt by the Holy Spirit now I have the power to manifest the love of God for others, even to love my enemies.

He is not a mere chance-giver. He is the Savior. But to enjoy those blessings of salvation, you must trust Him as your Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Once you have done this, then you can understand how you have become secure in the Lord Jesus.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Again I am telling you we are saved by grace......through faith... you can have all the faith in the world and it profits you nothing.
[SUP]1 Cor 13
2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

 

[newbirth]

Re: What Are the Obstacles to Trusting Christ as Savior?

What are the obstacles to trusting Christ as Savior?
One motive for writing Him off as Savior and demoting Him to mere "chance giver" could be the pride of man who will not admit that he is really such a bad sinner that nothing he does by way of works or obedience will bring him a verdict of "righteous" with God.

One big obstacle which is evident after so much debate here is that it appears that most of those who oppose Christ being the Savior Who gives eternal life with eternal security, oppose it based on their refusal to admit that salvation is by grace through faith. They want to add in works, though specifically scripture negates works.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

They find rare verses which speak of salvation in some other term besides faith/believe, and then want to insist that something else like water baptism or general commandment obedience is a condition for salvation -- and that despite the direct statement of scripture that works do not and cannot save. By taking this self-righteous perversion of the gospel, such persons insure their slavery to sin and their seat in the Lake of Fire.

The evidence both for salvation by faith/believing and for eternal security has been abundantly posted. As for me, I believe with all my heart that His name is Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Having confessed that I was a total sinner, I have put my trust in Him and in His substitutionary death on the cross for my salvation. My eternal security in Him is not an incentive to sin. The love of Christ constrains me, and He saves me from my sins.

As a recipient of a new nature and as indwelt by the Holy Spirit now I have the power to manifest the love of God for others, even to love my enemies.

He is not a mere chance-giver. He is the Savior. But to enjoy those blessings of salvation, you must trust Him as your Savior.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Once you have done this, then you can understand how you have become secure in the Lord Jesus.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

you believe in the Son you have eternal life, you do not obey the Son you shall not see life

Please don't tell me believing is obeying.
[h=1]John 3:36English Standard Version (ESV)[/h][SUP]36 [/SUP]Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

 

[Atwood]

Re: What Are the Obstacles to Trusting Christ as Savior?

you believe in the Son you have eternal life, you do not obey the Son you shall not see life

Please don't tell me believing is obeying.
John 3:36English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

The passages interestingly enough, do not say that obeying brings eternal life!

Now since you are disobedience, NewB, what on earth will you do to escape the Lake of Fire.

This is a command to obey:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

So I do tell you, as the Word of God tells you that reading or hearing Acts 16 and then believing, is obeying:

believing is obeying the command to believe! There is a command to obey, namely, Believe!

But general obedience is works,
and by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works!!!

 

[Atwood]

Re: What Are the Obstacles to Trusting Christ as Savior?

Again I am telling you we are saved by grace......through faith... you can have all the faith in the world and it profits you nothing.
[SUP]1 Cor 13
2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

The topic is spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 12-14. Faith in that context is the spiritual gift of faith which only some Christians have, like working miracles or probably going out on a limb for the Lord. There is no indication that 1 Cor 13 speaks about believing in the Lord Jesus as Savior. Faith in Christ as Savior (not chance-giver) brings salvation, new birth whereby the sinner is now enabled to love unselfishly for the first time in His life.

Love is the #1 virtue, and it is the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5). But you cannot have any of the virtues without salvation, and the one essential for salvation is faith in the Lord Jesus.

Repent of your objections to God's grace. Abandon any self-righteousness.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, not chance-giver.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Faith is the Requirement; Don't Make the Tail Wag the Dog

The problem is not with scripture but with your understanding of scripture. Your teaching of faith and belief is void ...Faith without works is dead....A convert being told to believe and he will be saved does not do much for him. When one is told to believe in Christ it includes believing in his teachings. When one is taught the way of Christ and obeys his way ,that is called following.

The word of God which declares only one condition for salvation, namely faith/believing in Christ is not void. Gaze on the scripture I have posted, not on me.

Obedience will not happen until one trusts Christ as Savior. And self-righteousness can prevent salvation. It is not of works!

Do not confuse the works which follow salvation with trying to earn salvation with works.

 

[Atwood]

Chastisement is a Means of Eternal Security.

The Lake of Fire is the 2nd Death.
Christians will never be given over to the 2nd Death.
We have the promise that we shall never perish.

Ps 118:18

The LORD has chastened me sore;
But he hath not given me over unto death.

Heb 12
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

1 Cor 6
It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This is a big sin, having sex with your father's wife!
But the man was saved. And part of the means of maintaining his salvation is prescribed:
chastisement at the hands of satan. 2 Corinthians indicates that this man was to be restored to fellowship after he repented; but there is nothing about him losing salvation over even so terrible a crime.

 

[newbirth]

Re: What Are the Obstacles to Trusting Christ as Savior?

The topic is spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 12-14. Faith in that context is the spiritual gift of faith which only some Christians have, like working miracles or probably going out on a limb for the Lord. There is no indication that 1 Cor 13 speaks about believing in the Lord Jesus as Savior. Faith in Christ as Savior (not chance-giver) brings salvation, new birth whereby the sinner is now enabled to love unselfishly for the first time in His life.

Love is the #1 virtue, and it is the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5). But you cannot have any of the virtues without salvation, and the one essential for salvation is faith in the Lord Jesus.

Repent of your objections to God's grace. Abandon any self-righteousness.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior, not chance-giver.

Do you see, have all faith? It is the same spirit working, now you are saying it is a different faith?
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

[SUP]5 [/SUP]One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Chastisement is a Means of Eternal Security.

The Lake of Fire is the 2nd Death.
Christians will never be given over to the 2nd Death.
We have the promise that we shall never perish.

Ps 118:18

The LORD has chastened me sore;
But he hath not given me over unto death.

Heb 12
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

1 Cor 6
It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This is a big sin, having sex with your father's wife!
But the man was saved. And part of the means of maintaining his salvation is prescribed:
chastisement at the hands of satan. 2 Corinthians indicates that this man was to be restored to fellowship after he repented; but there is nothing about him losing salvation over even so terrible a crime.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— [SUP]10 [/SUP]not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church[SUP][b][/SUP] whom you are to judge? [SUP]13 [/SUP]God judges[SUP][c][/SUP] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

 

[Atwood]

Faith is the Only Way to Salvation & Having Love; Yet Love is the Superior Virtue

Do you see, have all faith? It is the same spirit working, now you are saying it is a different faith?
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

[SUP]5 [/SUP]One Lord, one faith,

All Christians have the same faith (trust in the Lord Jesus as Savior -- not mere chance giver) and they also hold one basic core of belief (the faith), though the differ on non-essentials. One such core belief is justification by faith (not by works). So if you think of Christ as a mere chance-giver and deny justification by faith, you do not qualify to be regarded as a Christian.

It is clear from the abundance of God's testimony that the only essential for salvation is belief in Christ.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved," and many other passages already posted.

It is also clear from Rom 1-3 & many passages that "there is none righteous, no not one." Thus no one loves God properly, no one loves neighbor a self until born again, that the only requirement for new birth on man's part is faith in the Savior.

You don't get saved by "loving Christ," because that is the sinner's problem: He does not love Christ.

Thus the key to all virtue production is to trust Christ as Savior. At that point the Holy Spirit indwells & makes love possible (fruit of the Spirit is love -- Gal 5).

Notwithstanding, in addressing Christians the prophet says in 1 Cor 13 that love is a superior virtue to faith.

Now as to statement about having faith to remove mountains, that has nothing to do with trusting Christ as Savior. That kind of faith is a special faith. Since there is a special gift of faith which only some Christians have, I take the faith that moves mountains to be that special gift. Thus it is not the "one faith" of Ephesians.

Here it is, Rom 12:

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord. And there are diversities of workings, but the same God, who worketh all things in all. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal. For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit; and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues: but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will.
. . .
But now hath God set the members each one of them in the body, even as it pleased him. . . .

Now ye are the body of Christ, and severally members thereof. And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? But desire earnestly the greater gifts. And moreover a most excellent way show I unto you. If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

The whole point of 1 Cor 13 is that while spiritual gifts are nice, they don't hold a candle to love.

 

[Atwood]

The Lord Jesus Took Steps to Keep the Fornicating Christian Saved

In 1 Cor 6 there is a fornicating Christian, but the Lord Jesus saved His people from their sin.
He was delivered to satan for chastisement so that the Christian would be saved. 2 Corinthians indicates that the man did repent, and that the Lord was (as always) successful. Ride on King Jesus, Ride to Victory!


The Lake of Fire is the 2nd Death.
Christians will never be given over to the 2nd Death.
We have the promise that we shall never perish.

Ps 118:18

The LORD has chastened me sore;
But he hath not given me over unto death.

Heb 12
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

1 Cor 6
It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This is a big sin, having sex with his father's wife!
But the man was saved. And part of the means of maintaining his salvation is prescribed:
chastisement at the hands of satan. 2 Corinthians indicates that this man was to be restored to fellowship after he repented; but there is nothing about him losing salvation over even so terrible a crime. Rather,

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

By this time, it is hoped that all reading here realize that there is a serious problem in defining the terms Savior, Save(s), and Salvation.

When I say that I trust the Lord Jesus as my Savior,
I mean that He will save me from sin, get me to Heaven, and guarantee my eternal bliss in fellowship with Him.

But while those who deny eternal-security use the word "Savior," they do not mean what I mean by it. They mean "chance-giver." Perhaps this comes as a shock to some who have been throwing the word around "Savior," realizing that their concept denies that He is the Savior.

Similarly when such use the words save(s) and salvation, they do not mean the same thing that I do. Are these words for them actually empty words which they have been accustomed to voicing by being in some church? If you think that salvation is some temporary "state of grace," then really you don't believe in salvation, but in having a chance.

Repent if such is your case, elevate your thoughts & move up to actually trusting the Lord Jesus to save you.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
He is the author & perfecter of our faith.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Faith is the Only Way to Salvation & Having Love; Yet Love is the Superior Virtue

All Christians have the same faith (trust in the Lord Jesus as Savior -- not mere chance giver) and they also hold one basic core of belief (the faith), though the differ on non-essentials. One such core belief is justification by faith (not by works). So if you think of Christ as a mere chance-giver and deny justification by faith, you do not qualify to be regarded as a Christian.

It is clear from the abundance of God's testimony that the only essential for salvation is belief in Christ.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved," and many other passages already posted.

It is also clear from Rom 1-3 & many passages that "there is none righteous, no not one." Thus no one loves God properly, no one loves neighbor a self until born again, that the only requirement for new birth on man's part is faith in the Savior.

You don't get saved by "loving Christ," because that is the sinner's problem: He does not love Christ.

Thus the key to all virtue production is to trust Christ as Savior. At that point the Holy Spirit indwells & makes love possible (fruit of the Spirit is love -- Gal 5).

Notwithstanding, in addressing Christians the prophet says in 1 Cor 13 that love is a superior virtue to faith.

Now as to statement about having faith to remove mountains, that has nothing to do with trusting Christ as Savior. That kind of faith is a special faith. Since there is a special gift of faith which only some Christians have, I take the faith that moves mountains to be that special gift. Thus it is not the "one faith" of Ephesians.

So there are two types of faith? this is showing the opposite to what you claim. Your faith has no works it is dead. And if it has no love it it profits you nothing.

hope ,faith love and obedience to the truth
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

 

[newbirth]

Re: The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

By this time, it is hoped that all reading here realize that there is a serious problem in defining the terms Savior, Save(s), and Salvation.

When I say that I trust the Lord Jesus as my Savior,
I mean that He will save me from sin, get me to Heaven, and guarantee my eternal bliss in fellowship with Him.

But while those who deny eternal-security use the word "Savior," they do not mean what I mean by it. They mean "chance-giver." Perhaps this comes as a shock to some who have been throwing the word around "Savior," realizing that their concept denies that He is the Savior.

Similarly when such use the words save(s) and salvation, they do not mean the same thing that I do. Are these words for them actually empty words which they have been accustomed to voicing by being in some church? If you think that salvation is some temporary "state of grace," then really you don't believe in salvation, but in having a chance.

Repent if such is your case, elevate your thoughts & move up to actually trusting the Lord Jesus to save you.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
He is the author & perfecter of our faith.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

How can you trust someone and not obey their instructions

 

[newbirth]

Re: The Lord Jesus Took Steps to Keep the Fornicating Christian Saved

In 1 Cor 6 there is a fornicating Christian, but the Lord Jesus saved His people from their sin.
He was delivered to satan for chastisement so that the Christian would be saved. 2 Corinthians indicates that the man did repent, and that the Lord was (as always) successful. Ride on King Jesus, Ride to Victory!


The Lake of Fire is the 2nd Death.
Christians will never be given over to the 2nd Death.
We have the promise that we shall never perish.

Ps 118:18

The LORD has chastened me sore;
But he hath not given me over unto death.

Heb 12
For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed good to them; but he for our profit, that we may be partakers of his holiness. All chastening seemeth for the present to be not joyous but grievous; yet afterward it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.

1 Cor 6
It is actually reported that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not even among the Gentiles, that one of you hath his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he that had done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, being absent in body but present in spirit, have already as though I were present judged him that hath so wrought this thing, in the name of our Lord Jesus, ye being gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


This is a big sin, having sex with his father's wife!
But the man was saved. And part of the means of maintaining his salvation is prescribed:
chastisement at the hands of satan. 2 Corinthians indicates that this man was to be restored to fellowship after he repented; but there is nothing about him losing salvation over even so terrible a crime. Rather,

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

"The spirit may be saved"....I think the "may" there indicates possibility or probability I stand corrected.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Faith is the Requirement; Don't Make the Tail Wag the Dog

The word of God which declares only one condition for salvation, namely faith/believing in Christ is not void. Gaze on the scripture I have posted, not on me.

Obedience will not happen until one trusts Christ as Savior. And self-righteousness can prevent salvation. It is not of works!

Do not confuse the works which follow salvation with trying to earn salvation with works.


[/COLOR]

You continually separate grace from salvation, as long as you continue to do that you will never understand salvation...We are saved by grace ...faith keeps us in that saved state...I don't know how to put it to you again. you keep acting as if you have this super faith, God saved us and gives us a measure of faith...That is grace bro, the faith is to keep us until he comes or we die. It is not about self righteousness but ... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Alligator]

Re: The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

By this time, it is hoped that all reading here realize that there is a serious problem in defining the terms Savior, Save(s), and Salvation.

When I say that I trust the Lord Jesus as my Savior,
I mean that He will save me from sin, get me to Heaven, and guarantee my eternal bliss in fellowship with Him.

But while those who deny eternal-security use the word "Savior," they do not mean what I mean by it. They mean "chance-giver." Perhaps this comes as a shock to some who have been throwing the word around "Savior," realizing that their concept denies that He is the Savior.

Similarly when such use the words save(s) and salvation, they do not mean the same thing that I do. Are these words for them actually empty words which they have been accustomed to voicing by being in some church? If you think that salvation is some temporary "state of grace," then really you don't believe in salvation, but in having a chance.

Repent if such is your case, elevate your thoughts & move up to actually trusting the Lord Jesus to save you.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
He is the author & perfecter of our faith.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

,Atwood, There are people on this site that are sick and tired of your "sermons". This forum is supposed to be about Bible study, not having to endure your canned speeches over and over. You are leaving little room for others to make comments.

 

[Atwood]

Walking After the Spirit is Not Obtaining Converting Salvation

It is not about self righteousness but ... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Indeed, it is should not be about being saved by "obedience" to commands (works), for that is the way of self-righteousness. For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works."

Until a man trusts Christ as Savior (not demoted to "chance-giver"), the flesh (the old Adamic human nature) is the sum total of what that man is.

have no confidence in the flesh: though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh: if any other man thinketh to have confidence in the flesh, I yet more: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews;


among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest


by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


that he might bring to nought the things that are: that no flesh should glory before God.


ot the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.


For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace: because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you.


when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

As I said:

Until a man trusts Christ as Savior (not demoted to "chance-giver"), the flesh (the old Adamic human nature) is the sum total of what that man is.

And until a man trusts Christ as Savior (not demoted to chance-giver) he does not have the Holy Spirit, and it is futile to think such a one could walk after the Spirit.

Walking after the Spirit has nothing to do with obtaining salvation from sin, salvation to a new nature, salvation to eternal life. Walking after the Spirit is something a Christian does after he is saved.

So Walking after the Sprit is off topic on considering how to be saved & have eternal life.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Salvation Is About the Lord Jesus Saving Us

Make me to go in the path of thy commandments;
For therein do I delight.
Incline my heart unto thy testimonies,
And not to covetousness.
Turn away my eyes from beholding vanity,
And quicken me in thy ways. - Ps 119

Jeremiah says,
"Turn me, & I shall be turned."
So much for those who worship "free will."


Make me to go . . .
Incline my heart . . . .
Turn away my eyes . . .
quicken me in thy ways.

Maybe you thought that a man has to do that on his own without saving help?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Can you trust Him not as Savior,
not mere "chance-giver"?

 

[Billyd]

Re: The Savior Saves the Savee; Salvation is Salvation, not "chance"

,Atwood, There are people on this site that are sick and tired of your "sermons". This forum is supposed to be about Bible study, not having to endure your canned speeches over and over. You are leaving little room for others to make comments.

I can't speak for others, but personally I would like to see more Bible Study, and a lot less trying to justify positions. What I mean, is instead of quoting lists of scriptures, spend a little more time telling others how and why each applies to the study in progress. I am still waiting for justification of the OP statement, "It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security". I see plenty of scriptural support for both sides. If I were grading both sides, I'd give both an A for quoting scriptures, and an F for the analysis of them. My wife looked over my shoulder this morning and had one comment. "I see that they are still at it".