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The late Sam Morris, a Baptist preacher in Stamford, TX, in his tract "Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul" writes:
“We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the or-dinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul"
Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY in "The Weekly Worker", March 12, 1959 says:
"If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it."
More:
Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate on a number of occasions, the propostion that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one of these encounters Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.” Incredible! Another cleric adopted a similar view. J.L. Pettit, a fifty-four-year-old Baptist preacher, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. Pettit subsequently was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.”
Both of these cases (Chastain and Pettit) were discussed in the Grider-Sherrill Debate, conducted in Somerset, Kentucky in May of 1955 (which was subsequently published). W.E. Sherrill, a Baptist preacher of Benton, Arkansas, was arguing the case that the Christian cannot apostatize so as to be lost finally in hell. A.C. Grider introduced the Sam Morris testimony, and also cited the material regarding Chastain and Pettit. He pressed Sherrill as to whether or not these affirmations were consistent with Baptist doctrine. Sherrill would never repudiate the statements. He continued to insist that no matter what a Christian does, he cannot be lost."
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/25-the-president-adultery-and-baptist-rules
W. Jackson
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K
This is sad that so many preachers fall to this false teaching. But from one who has been in a Baptist church at one time in my life this is not the fundamental teaching in all Baptist churches.
Some Baptist churches do teach against this as well.
I know there are faults that can be found in these next group of names that I will name, but there is faults in all humans. Nobody is perfect, but I want to name them because this is a mainstream group that a lot of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ listen to and follow.
A wake up call was issued against this false teaching of one can do what ever they want and these are names that preached against this false teaching: Graham, Roberts, Copeland, Hagee.
Just to name a few. They initiated this wake up call do to how far the church had fallen into this false teaching.
Some Baptist churches do teach against this as well.
I know there are faults that can be found in these next group of names that I will name, but there is faults in all humans. Nobody is perfect, but I want to name them because this is a mainstream group that a lot of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ listen to and follow.
A wake up call was issued against this false teaching of one can do what ever they want and these are names that preached against this false teaching: Graham, Roberts, Copeland, Hagee.
Just to name a few. They initiated this wake up call do to how far the church had fallen into this false teaching.
We are saved by confessing Jesus as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead. We are then born again of God's Spirit - God in Christ dwells in us via the gift of holy spirit. The rest is our 'walk'. I'm sure at times you do not walk in the light . . . are you then not saved and God takes away his Spirit from you? Once I was born again - born of God's Spirit - I have the righteousness of God - he doesn't take it back - I pay the consequences of walking in 'darkness' until I ask forgiveness. His seed remains in me . . .
No it is not . . . If I have never been born again and walked in darkness then yes, I am lost. Nope, I said that when a person sins he is at that instant walking in darkness - say I told a lie - at that exact point I walked in darkness - but when I realized what I had done - I asked forgiveness - I am immediately forgiven and restored back in fellowship walking in the light., but I never lost my sonship with the Father. How can I become 'unborn' of his Spirit?
Israelites were the children of God but they were not born again of God's Spirit - they did not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. I am not an Israelite . . .I belong to the body of Christ and I am a member in particular whether it be the arm, the leg, the eye, the ear, etc. God does not amputate a part of Christ's body. As born again believers we stand before God with righteousness, justification, sanctification - God sees Christ in us - the Spirit will always war against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit because they are contrary one to the other. We continually fight a battle so that at times yes, we will be out of fellowship [walk in darkness] and if we say we do not sin [walk in darkness] then we are a liar.
No it is not . . . If I have never been born again and walked in darkness then yes, I am lost. Nope, I said that when a person sins he is at that instant walking in darkness - say I told a lie - at that exact point I walked in darkness - but when I realized what I had done - I asked forgiveness - I am immediately forgiven and restored back in fellowship walking in the light., but I never lost my sonship with the Father. How can I become 'unborn' of his Spirit?
Israelites were the children of God but they were not born again of God's Spirit - they did not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. I am not an Israelite . . .I belong to the body of Christ and I am a member in particular whether it be the arm, the leg, the eye, the ear, etc. God does not amputate a part of Christ's body. As born again believers we stand before God with righteousness, justification, sanctification - God sees Christ in us - the Spirit will always war against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit because they are contrary one to the other. We continually fight a battle so that at times yes, we will be out of fellowship [walk in darkness] and if we say we do not sin [walk in darkness] then we are a liar.
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It is sad that this debate cannot seem to be reconciled by the scriptures. But I learned something the other day that I would like to share with everyone that to me reconciles the OSAS and non OSAS Christians.
There are 2 functions spinning around each other in the process of being "saved".
Function 1
All those who believe in Jesus Christ and have been saved by his atoning sacrifice and by his grace will automatically be resurrected with a new glorious body and will be allowed to enter heaven because Jesus cleansed them of their sins. This first function is based solely on the grace of God. No amount of good works can get you resurrected or make you clean enough to enter heaven on your own. If you believe, no strings are attached, you are resurrected and enter into heaven.
All the scriptures that say that by grace are you saved, not of works are true. All the scriptures saying that the one great sacrifice of Jesus is sufficient is true, but they are true only in regards to your resurrection and entrance into heaven.
Function 2
The second function is based on this question: Once you have arrived in heaven, where will you reside? As you know from John 14:12 there are many mansions in our Father House. "Fathers House" refers to heaven. How close to our Father's mansion will you reside? That is the question. There are billions of Christians over the centuries that will gain heaven. They all cannot live across the street from the Father's mansion (so to speak). How close you live will depend on "how faithful you were and how much fruit you produced" in your Christian walk on Earth. All the scriptures that declare that you must be faithful and endure to the end and repent and bear fruit are true, but only in regards to how close your mansion is to God's mansion. Only in regards to how much access you have to God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Function 1 is based on the grace of God, not of good works, which the scriptures speak.
Function 2 is based on being faithful in your Christian walk and bearing much fruit for the Kingdom of God which the scriptures speak.
So this concept reconciles both sides of the debate.
OSAS is true for getting resurrected and into heaven
Faithful walk and bearing fruit for how close you reside from the Father's mansion.
I will give part 2 of this concept after I see how the body agrees with me on this reconciliation of the debate.
There are 2 functions spinning around each other in the process of being "saved".
Function 1
All those who believe in Jesus Christ and have been saved by his atoning sacrifice and by his grace will automatically be resurrected with a new glorious body and will be allowed to enter heaven because Jesus cleansed them of their sins. This first function is based solely on the grace of God. No amount of good works can get you resurrected or make you clean enough to enter heaven on your own. If you believe, no strings are attached, you are resurrected and enter into heaven.
All the scriptures that say that by grace are you saved, not of works are true. All the scriptures saying that the one great sacrifice of Jesus is sufficient is true, but they are true only in regards to your resurrection and entrance into heaven.
Function 2
The second function is based on this question: Once you have arrived in heaven, where will you reside? As you know from John 14:12 there are many mansions in our Father House. "Fathers House" refers to heaven. How close to our Father's mansion will you reside? That is the question. There are billions of Christians over the centuries that will gain heaven. They all cannot live across the street from the Father's mansion (so to speak). How close you live will depend on "how faithful you were and how much fruit you produced" in your Christian walk on Earth. All the scriptures that declare that you must be faithful and endure to the end and repent and bear fruit are true, but only in regards to how close your mansion is to God's mansion. Only in regards to how much access you have to God the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Function 1 is based on the grace of God, not of good works, which the scriptures speak.
Function 2 is based on being faithful in your Christian walk and bearing much fruit for the Kingdom of God which the scriptures speak.
So this concept reconciles both sides of the debate.
OSAS is true for getting resurrected and into heaven
Faithful walk and bearing fruit for how close you reside from the Father's mansion.
I will give part 2 of this concept after I see how the body agrees with me on this reconciliation of the debate.
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WRONG! I can not be 'unborn'. If I am born again of God's Spirit . . . I am his child. PERIOD! If I die while I am out of fellowship [walking in darkness] then I will stand before the bema of Christ and my works will be burned - if all my works are burned I will still be saved - I will just suffer loss of reward. [1 Cor. 3:12-15] Does this give me allowance to walk in darkness? NO! I endeavor to walk in the light as he is in the light because I love him.
T
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. (2 Corinthians 13:5-6 ESV)
Let the Word of God stand on it's own strength. If you're not saved, you were never saved. If you are saved, you will be saved. But examine yourself first, to see if you truly are.
Let the Word of God stand on it's own strength. If you're not saved, you were never saved. If you are saved, you will be saved. But examine yourself first, to see if you truly are.
Those of you who are arguing that if I have been Saved, it can be taken away, please tell me how you are going to do it. Are you more powerful than my Savior? I don't think so.
I've been a member of a SBC church all my life, I know many other pastors. I've yet to hear one tell someone that Salvation means that you can sin at will. Those who know my testimony know that a Saved person sins, but they also know that God will correct you. If He doesn't correct you when you sin, my friend, you should have a serious talk with Jesus about salvation. If you say that you are without sin, again, you and Jesus need to have a serious talk. If you think that Salvation is a license to sin, again you are in need of a serious conversation.
Please stop spreading the false gospel of works salvation and/or Salvation means that you can live in sin. Salvation is a free gift to anyone who believes on (commits his/her life to) Jesus. There are no other conditions.
I've been a member of a SBC church all my life, I know many other pastors. I've yet to hear one tell someone that Salvation means that you can sin at will. Those who know my testimony know that a Saved person sins, but they also know that God will correct you. If He doesn't correct you when you sin, my friend, you should have a serious talk with Jesus about salvation. If you say that you are without sin, again, you and Jesus need to have a serious talk. If you think that Salvation is a license to sin, again you are in need of a serious conversation.
Please stop spreading the false gospel of works salvation and/or Salvation means that you can live in sin. Salvation is a free gift to anyone who believes on (commits his/her life to) Jesus. There are no other conditions.
K
Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
This scripture as well as the one that states if you continue to willfully sin after receiving the truth speak volumes of how you must walk, or you to will be cut off.
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
This scripture as well as the one that states if you continue to willfully sin after receiving the truth speak volumes of how you must walk, or you to will be cut off.
A
This is from a noted bible scholar on the verses you listed.
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Does 1 Cor. 3:15 Support the Doctrine of “Eternal Security”?
BY WAYNE JACKSON
“A friend has appealed to 1 Corinthians 3:15 to support the idea that a Christian can never fall from God’s grace eternally. He may sin, and then suffer the ‘fire’ of a temporal consequence, but his soul cannot be lost. Would you comment on this passage?”
The larger context of the passage you cite is as follows:
“According to the grace of God which was given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder I laid a foundation; and another builds thereon. But let each man take heed how he builds thereon. For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. But if any man builds on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; each man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire” (ASV).
It is true that those who have been influenced by the doctrines of John Calvin misuse this text in their attempt to prove the “impossibility of apostasy” dogma. They seek to establish the idea that the Christian’s salvation is eternally secure — no matter how he lives.
It is very important, at the very outset, to observe that in this section of the Corinthian letter, Paul employs the metaphor of a great building. It is God’s building (a “temple”), and within it dwells the Spirit of God (v. 16ff); thus, it is imperative that it be kept holy. The illustration, then, has to do with the house of God – with Christians.
Some of the constituent elements of the apostle’s imagery are as follows:
He had laid a foundation in Corinth.
Others had built upon that foundation.
With the passing of time, and under the rigors of tribulation, some of the components had proved to be of superior quality, while others had shown themselves to be worthy of destruction.
Accordingly, those involved in the “building” process were to exert all diligence to see to it that their “work” was quality, thus would endure.
Let us, therefore, consider this portion of scripture very carefully, and let the contexts (both immediate and complementary) guide us to the correct meaning.
In the city of Corinth, Paul had laid the foundation of this spiritual building. He had preached Christ (2:1-2), and in so doing had established the Corinthian congregation (Acts 18:8; 1 Cor. 4:15). Later, Apollos had supplemented the apostle’s labor (Acts 18:24ff; 1 Cor. 3:5-6).
At the time Paul penned this epistle, it was some four to five years after first arriving in the city. He labored among these people for eighteen months (Acts 18:11). But serious problems had begun to evolve within the church. This very epistle provides ample evidence of that digression.
There was a pressing need for the apostle to urge these brethren to build securely upon the foundation he had initiated. Only quality teaching (the full gospel; cf. Mt. 28:20) would produce enduring materials (i.e., converts who would stand fast in their faith). Persecution had descended upon the Corinthian congregation almost from the commencement of its existence (Acts 18:12ff). Without question it was the case that some of the Christians in the city did not maintain their fidelity, hence, the appropriateness of the present warning.
The superstructure of the building (i.e., that which was built upon the foundation) was of two qualitative types – stable and non-stable (each of which was illustrated by three examples). The enduring components were symbolized by the gold, silver, and costly stones, (i.e., that which fire would not damage). The inferior materials (wood, hay, stubble) reflected the character of those who yielded to hostile pressures, hence, surrendered their faith — or perhaps simply did not maintain their spiritual integrity.
With the above observations in place, we are ready to give consideration to verses 13ff.
First, it is quite clear that “each man’s work” has reference to the converts the teacher made by means of his evangelism. Later, we will find Paul addressing these brothers, saying, “are not you my work in the Lord?” (9:1). In this connection, the apostle declares that “the day” will reveal the character of each convert. Was he properly grounded and faithful, or was he schooled superficially and/or became negligent? This does not mean, of course, that when one falls away from the faith it necessarily is his teacher’s fault. But that word of caution is prevalent in this discourse.
Some believe that the terms “day” and “fire” refer to the refining process of persecution (cf. 1 Pet. 4:12). It is probably safe to say, however, that these expressions, in the view of most scholars, are references to the terminal events of human history, i.e., the day of Judgment and the punishment of eternal fire that is to follow for the disobedient. These concluding events are the means by which the true quality of one’s converts will be manifest ultimately.
Second, if it turns out that one’s converts “abide,” i.e., remain faithful, the teacher will reap a “reward” of tremendous satisfaction. This “reward” principle is illustrated in a number of ways, for example, by the happy reunion envisioned in Christ’s parable of the unjust steward (see Lk. 16:9). Note Paul’s similar exultation elsewhere: “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of glorying? Are not even you, before our Lord Jesus at his coming?” (1 Thes. 2:19; cf. Dan. 12:3b).
On the other hand, if one’s converts do not survive the hardships of the Christian life, and abandon their faith (Heb. 3:12), the teacher will suffer some sense of “loss.” Not the loss of his own salvation, but, so far as the apostate is concerned, the teacher’s labor will have been in vain. Paul provides a preview of such anxiety when he bluntly tells the Galatian saints: “I fear for you, that I may have labored over you in vain” (Gal. 4:11; NASB). Did not Jesus feel some sense of "loss[ when Judas defected and ended up in perdition (Jn. 17:12)?
Two important truths stand out clearly from a consideration of this narrative.
One’s converts may defect from the faith and be lost.
In the event that such occurs, though the teacher may experience the loss of his apostate disciple, yet he himself will not be held responsible for the defection. He will be saved if he passes the “fire” test personally.
It, therefore, is the epitome of folly to suggest that this context teaches explicitly, or even implies, that a child of God can never be lost. The truth is, it affirms just the opposite of that view.
About the Author
Wayne Jackson has written for and edited the Christian Courier since its inception in 1965. He has also written several books on a variety of biblical topics including The Bible and Science, Creation, Evolution, and the Age of the Earth, The Bible on Trial, and a number of commentaries. He lives in Stockton, California with his dear wife, and life-long partner, Betty.
Related Articles
1 Corinthians 3:15 – Saved through Fire
A Study of Heaven
Are There Degrees of Blessedness and Punishment in Eternity?
The Value of Human Suffering
Some Character Traits of Paul, the Apostle
Back to Kindergarten
Will There Be Personal Recognition in Heaven?
The Allegory of the Vine and the Branches
Some Final Words from Paul
Simon, Simon
The Terror of Death: Causes and Cures
Will “Heaven” Be on Earth?
What Does the Bible Say About Miracles?
But Were They Really Saved?
A Faith-Building Study From Daniel 11
All Things Work Together for Good: Controversy or Comfort?
Apostasy – A Clear and Ever-Present Danger
Take Heed Lest You Fall
Jesus and the Samaritan Woman
Making Sense of the Bible
Have You Considered The Consequences Of Sin?
The Value of “Waiting” on Jehovah
Terrorists in the Church
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Two “Stewards”—A Study in Contrast
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A Study of Paul’s “Man of Sin”
Examine Yourselves!
Are Modern “Church Buildings” Digressive?
Copyright © 2014 Christian Courier. All rights reserved. | ISSN: 1559-2235 | Help / Contact About Christian Courier Privacy Policy Terms of Service Copyright Policy
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Does 1 Cor. 3:15 Support the Doctrine of “Eternal Security”?
BY WAYNE JACKSON
“A friend has appealed to 1 Corinthians 3:15 to support the idea that a Christian can never fall from God’s grace eternally. He may sin, and then suffer the ‘fire’ of a temporal consequence, but his soul cannot be lost. Would you comment on this passage?”
The larger context of the passage you cite is as follows:
“According to the grace of God which was given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder I laid a foundation; and another builds thereon. But let each man take heed how he builds thereon. For other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. But if any man builds on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; each man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire” (ASV).
It is true that those who have been influenced by the doctrines of John Calvin misuse this text in their attempt to prove the “impossibility of apostasy” dogma. They seek to establish the idea that the Christian’s salvation is eternally secure — no matter how he lives.
It is very important, at the very outset, to observe that in this section of the Corinthian letter, Paul employs the metaphor of a great building. It is God’s building (a “temple”), and within it dwells the Spirit of God (v. 16ff); thus, it is imperative that it be kept holy. The illustration, then, has to do with the house of God – with Christians.
Some of the constituent elements of the apostle’s imagery are as follows:
He had laid a foundation in Corinth.
Others had built upon that foundation.
With the passing of time, and under the rigors of tribulation, some of the components had proved to be of superior quality, while others had shown themselves to be worthy of destruction.
Accordingly, those involved in the “building” process were to exert all diligence to see to it that their “work” was quality, thus would endure.
Let us, therefore, consider this portion of scripture very carefully, and let the contexts (both immediate and complementary) guide us to the correct meaning.
In the city of Corinth, Paul had laid the foundation of this spiritual building. He had preached Christ (2:1-2), and in so doing had established the Corinthian congregation (Acts 18:8; 1 Cor. 4:15). Later, Apollos had supplemented the apostle’s labor (Acts 18:24ff; 1 Cor. 3:5-6).
At the time Paul penned this epistle, it was some four to five years after first arriving in the city. He labored among these people for eighteen months (Acts 18:11). But serious problems had begun to evolve within the church. This very epistle provides ample evidence of that digression.
There was a pressing need for the apostle to urge these brethren to build securely upon the foundation he had initiated. Only quality teaching (the full gospel; cf. Mt. 28:20) would produce enduring materials (i.e., converts who would stand fast in their faith). Persecution had descended upon the Corinthian congregation almost from the commencement of its existence (Acts 18:12ff). Without question it was the case that some of the Christians in the city did not maintain their fidelity, hence, the appropriateness of the present warning.
The superstructure of the building (i.e., that which was built upon the foundation) was of two qualitative types – stable and non-stable (each of which was illustrated by three examples). The enduring components were symbolized by the gold, silver, and costly stones, (i.e., that which fire would not damage). The inferior materials (wood, hay, stubble) reflected the character of those who yielded to hostile pressures, hence, surrendered their faith — or perhaps simply did not maintain their spiritual integrity.
With the above observations in place, we are ready to give consideration to verses 13ff.
First, it is quite clear that “each man’s work” has reference to the converts the teacher made by means of his evangelism. Later, we will find Paul addressing these brothers, saying, “are not you my work in the Lord?” (9:1). In this connection, the apostle declares that “the day” will reveal the character of each convert. Was he properly grounded and faithful, or was he schooled superficially and/or became negligent? This does not mean, of course, that when one falls away from the faith it necessarily is his teacher’s fault. But that word of caution is prevalent in this discourse.
Some believe that the terms “day” and “fire” refer to the refining process of persecution (cf. 1 Pet. 4:12). It is probably safe to say, however, that these expressions, in the view of most scholars, are references to the terminal events of human history, i.e., the day of Judgment and the punishment of eternal fire that is to follow for the disobedient. These concluding events are the means by which the true quality of one’s converts will be manifest ultimately.
Second, if it turns out that one’s converts “abide,” i.e., remain faithful, the teacher will reap a “reward” of tremendous satisfaction. This “reward” principle is illustrated in a number of ways, for example, by the happy reunion envisioned in Christ’s parable of the unjust steward (see Lk. 16:9). Note Paul’s similar exultation elsewhere: “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of glorying? Are not even you, before our Lord Jesus at his coming?” (1 Thes. 2:19; cf. Dan. 12:3b).
On the other hand, if one’s converts do not survive the hardships of the Christian life, and abandon their faith (Heb. 3:12), the teacher will suffer some sense of “loss.” Not the loss of his own salvation, but, so far as the apostate is concerned, the teacher’s labor will have been in vain. Paul provides a preview of such anxiety when he bluntly tells the Galatian saints: “I fear for you, that I may have labored over you in vain” (Gal. 4:11; NASB). Did not Jesus feel some sense of "loss[ when Judas defected and ended up in perdition (Jn. 17:12)?
Two important truths stand out clearly from a consideration of this narrative.
One’s converts may defect from the faith and be lost.
In the event that such occurs, though the teacher may experience the loss of his apostate disciple, yet he himself will not be held responsible for the defection. He will be saved if he passes the “fire” test personally.
It, therefore, is the epitome of folly to suggest that this context teaches explicitly, or even implies, that a child of God can never be lost. The truth is, it affirms just the opposite of that view.
About the Author
Wayne Jackson has written for and edited the Christian Courier since its inception in 1965. He has also written several books on a variety of biblical topics including The Bible and Science, Creation, Evolution, and the Age of the Earth, The Bible on Trial, and a number of commentaries. He lives in Stockton, California with his dear wife, and life-long partner, Betty.
Related Articles
1 Corinthians 3:15 – Saved through Fire
A Study of Heaven
Are There Degrees of Blessedness and Punishment in Eternity?
The Value of Human Suffering
Some Character Traits of Paul, the Apostle
Back to Kindergarten
Will There Be Personal Recognition in Heaven?
The Allegory of the Vine and the Branches
Some Final Words from Paul
Simon, Simon
The Terror of Death: Causes and Cures
Will “Heaven” Be on Earth?
What Does the Bible Say About Miracles?
But Were They Really Saved?
A Faith-Building Study From Daniel 11
All Things Work Together for Good: Controversy or Comfort?
Apostasy – A Clear and Ever-Present Danger
Take Heed Lest You Fall
Jesus and the Samaritan Woman
Making Sense of the Bible
Have You Considered The Consequences Of Sin?
The Value of “Waiting” on Jehovah
Terrorists in the Church
False Teachers; Destructive Heresies – 2 Peter 2:1
Two “Stewards”—A Study in Contrast
Daniel’s Prophecy of Antiochus Epiphanes
A Character Portrait of Moses
A Study of Paul’s “Man of Sin”
Examine Yourselves!
Are Modern “Church Buildings” Digressive?
Copyright © 2014 Christian Courier. All rights reserved. | ISSN: 1559-2235 | Help / Contact About Christian Courier Privacy Policy Terms of Service Copyright Policy
Here he is telling us to cut off our offending members you think anyone can be offensive to him and not be cut off?
Matthew 18:8
English Standard Version
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Here he is telling us if we don't continue in his goodness we shall be cut off...
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Matthew 18:8
English Standard Version
And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Here he is telling us if we don't continue in his goodness we shall be cut off...
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Salvation requires belief, Jn 8:24; repentance Lk 13:3,5; confession Mt 10:32,33; baptism Mk 16;16.
1 Jn 1:7 begins with conditional word "IF" meaning walking in the light is something the Christian must chose to do or not do.
Walking in the light means DOING what Christ has said.
3 Jn 1:4 "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth".
Jn 17:17 "thy word is truth"
Jn 3:21 "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light
Jn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
2 Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
So no walking = no sins cleansed = lost
Eph 1:4; 2 Pet 3:14 says the Christian is spotless, holy and without blame. 1 Jn 1:7 shows only those that are spotless, holy and without blame can have fellowship with God Who is Himself spotless, holy and without blame. So the CONTINUOUS walking by the Christian means Christ's blood CONTINUES to wash away ALL SIN keeping the Christian spotless and blameless so he can fellowship with God.
Walking in the dark is the same as being lost.
1 Jn 1:5 there is no darkness in Christ. So anyone walking in darkness is NOT in Christ and is lost.
If a Christian sins as in telling a lie and repents of that sin then his repentance is proof he is continuing to walk in the light and will have that sinned cleansed. if a Christian abandons walking in the light altogether, then his sins are not cleansed away.
I find it interesting you say "but when I realized what I had done - I asked forgiveness - I am immediately forgiven and restored back in fellowship walking in the light..."
You say "I ask forgiveness" Asking forgiveness/repentance is walking in the light and required to have sins cleansed. You just made salvation CONDITIONAL upon asking for forgiveness. Eternal Security says salvation is UNCONDITIONAL. So if the Christian does not CONDITIONALLY ask for forgiveness/repent he is not walking in the light and sins are not cleansed = lost.
The Jews were God's elect, God's chosen just as Christians are today. The Jews were in a covenant relationship with God, a saved condition. Yet God cast them off and they became lost, Rom chpts 10 & 11. God could not have cast them off if they were never God's to begin with. Num 12:14 how could God disinherit them if they were not His children to disinherit?
1 Jn 1:7 begins with conditional word "IF" meaning walking in the light is something the Christian must chose to do or not do.
Walking in the light means DOING what Christ has said.
3 Jn 1:4 "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth".
Jn 17:17 "thy word is truth"
Jn 3:21 "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light
Jn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
2 Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
So no walking = no sins cleansed = lost
Eph 1:4; 2 Pet 3:14 says the Christian is spotless, holy and without blame. 1 Jn 1:7 shows only those that are spotless, holy and without blame can have fellowship with God Who is Himself spotless, holy and without blame. So the CONTINUOUS walking by the Christian means Christ's blood CONTINUES to wash away ALL SIN keeping the Christian spotless and blameless so he can fellowship with God.
Walking in the dark is the same as being lost.
1 Jn 1:5 there is no darkness in Christ. So anyone walking in darkness is NOT in Christ and is lost.
If a Christian sins as in telling a lie and repents of that sin then his repentance is proof he is continuing to walk in the light and will have that sinned cleansed. if a Christian abandons walking in the light altogether, then his sins are not cleansed away.
I find it interesting you say "but when I realized what I had done - I asked forgiveness - I am immediately forgiven and restored back in fellowship walking in the light..."
You say "I ask forgiveness" Asking forgiveness/repentance is walking in the light and required to have sins cleansed. You just made salvation CONDITIONAL upon asking for forgiveness. Eternal Security says salvation is UNCONDITIONAL. So if the Christian does not CONDITIONALLY ask for forgiveness/repent he is not walking in the light and sins are not cleansed = lost.
The Jews were God's elect, God's chosen just as Christians are today. The Jews were in a covenant relationship with God, a saved condition. Yet God cast them off and they became lost, Rom chpts 10 & 11. God could not have cast them off if they were never God's to begin with. Num 12:14 how could God disinherit them if they were not His children to disinherit?
Matthew is concerning the Jews. Romans 11:1-12 is concerning Israel and then v13 starts 'I speak to you Gentiles' so v22 is concerning the Gentiles. . . When a Jew becomes born again they become part of the 'church of God, the body of Christ; when a Gentile is born again they become part of 'the church of God, the body of Christ.' I am born again part of the 'church of God, the body of Christ where 'there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond or free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.' [Galatians 3:28] 'Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all and in all.' [Colossians 3:11]. . .If you understood your standing within the family of God you wouldn't have a problem.
Eternal Security allows one to sin whether those Baptist preachers admit it or not.
The late Sam Morris, a Baptist preacher in Stamford, TX, in his tract "Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul" writes:
“We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the or-dinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul"
Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY in "The Weekly Worker", March 12, 1959 says:
"If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it."
More:
Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate on a number of occasions, the propostion that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one of these encounters Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.” Incredible! Another cleric adopted a similar view. J.L. Pettit, a fifty-four-year-old Baptist preacher, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. Pettit subsequently was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.”
Both of these cases (Chastain and Pettit) were discussed in the Grider-Sherrill Debate, conducted in Somerset, Kentucky in May of 1955 (which was subsequently published). W.E. Sherrill, a Baptist preacher of Benton, Arkansas, was arguing the case that the Christian cannot apostatize so as to be lost finally in hell. A.C. Grider introduced the Sam Morris testimony, and also cited the material regarding Chastain and Pettit. He pressed Sherrill as to whether or not these affirmations were consistent with Baptist doctrine. Sherrill would never repudiate the statements. He continued to insist that no matter what a Christian does, he cannot be lost."
https://www.christiancourier.com/art...-baptist-rules
W. Jackson
The late Sam Morris, a Baptist preacher in Stamford, TX, in his tract "Do a Christian's Sins Damn His Soul" writes:
“We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... All the prayers a man may pray, all the Bibles he may read, all the churches he may belong to, all the services he may attend, all the sermons he may practice, all the debts he may pay, all the or-dinances he may observe, all the laws he may keep, all the benevolent acts he may per-form will not make his soul one whit safer; and all the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger... The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul... The way I live has nothing whatsoever to do with the salvation of my soul"
Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville, KY in "The Weekly Worker", March 12, 1959 says:
"If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women, I couldn't go to hell -- in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to. If on the judgment day, I should find that my loved ones are lost and should lose all desire to be saved, and should beg God to send me to hell with them, He couldn't do it."
More:
Hoyt Chastain was a Missionary Baptist preacher who defended, in public debate on a number of occasions, the propostion that a child of God cannot fall from grace. In one of these encounters Chastain affirmed that he could abandon his wife and children, move in with a sixteen-year-old girl, and the Lord would take the situation and “work it out for his good.” Incredible! Another cleric adopted a similar view. J.L. Pettit, a fifty-four-year-old Baptist preacher, seduced a fourteen-year-old girl. Pettit subsequently was arrested and brought to trial. The girl swore on the witness stand that the minister told her their sexual activity was merely a “matter of the flesh,” and it would not “bother the soul.”
Both of these cases (Chastain and Pettit) were discussed in the Grider-Sherrill Debate, conducted in Somerset, Kentucky in May of 1955 (which was subsequently published). W.E. Sherrill, a Baptist preacher of Benton, Arkansas, was arguing the case that the Christian cannot apostatize so as to be lost finally in hell. A.C. Grider introduced the Sam Morris testimony, and also cited the material regarding Chastain and Pettit. He pressed Sherrill as to whether or not these affirmations were consistent with Baptist doctrine. Sherrill would never repudiate the statements. He continued to insist that no matter what a Christian does, he cannot be lost."
https://www.christiancourier.com/art...-baptist-rules
W. Jackson
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B
If we continue in sin, after we have asked Jesus to be our personal Savior, are we really in a saved relationship, are we converted? Here is an aswer "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26.
The rapture will be a very small group because of what you are preaching on this thread. It is one thing to be saved but it is another thing to mock God. God hates sins so much that He gave His only begotten Son to take away the sins of the world through the blood of the Cross. And to think that God will allow these so-called lukewarm Christians who won't give up their sinful lifestyle or refuse to repent their sins, be given a free pass to eternal life. Most Christians who claim to be saved were never really saved because they returned to their old sinful, secular ways. In other words, they mocked God. The greatest revival of faith will take place during Tribulation because they will be getting a wake up call and truly ask to be saved. Those who failed to get saved the first time, will have an opportunity during the Tribulation Period. It will truly be a sad day when the Church is raptured and many of the so-called 'saved' are left behind. IMHO, less than 10% of the so-called "saved" Christians will be raptured. So small that Jesus had to give them a second chance at being saved.
The rapture will be a very small group because of what you are preaching on this thread. It is one thing to be saved but it is another thing to mock God. God hates sins so much that He gave His only begotten Son to take away the sins of the world through the blood of the Cross. And to think that God will allow these so-called lukewarm Christians who won't give up their sinful lifestyle or refuse to repent their sins, be given a free pass to eternal life. Most Christians who claim to be saved were never really saved because they returned to their old sinful, secular ways. In other words, they mocked God. The greatest revival of faith will take place during Tribulation because they will be getting a wake up call and truly ask to be saved. Those who failed to get saved the first time, will have an opportunity during the Tribulation Period. It will truly be a sad day when the Church is raptured and many of the so-called 'saved' are left behind. IMHO, less than 10% of the so-called "saved" Christians will be raptured. So small that Jesus had to give them a second chance at being saved.
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once Christ comes, and the Church is gathered (raptured) there will be no more second chances.
If you miss the boat, there is no third coming. You're in for judgement.
To say that there is a second chance for carnal 'Christians' after the rapture
is going against everything that Christ said about His return, and all that the prophets say about Christs return.
If you miss the boat, there is no third coming. You're in for judgement.
To say that there is a second chance for carnal 'Christians' after the rapture
is going against everything that Christ said about His return, and all that the prophets say about Christs return.