Sound advice for sure. Maybe the pope needs to read about the beggar sitting at the gate of the rich man wanting only scraps from the table. The beggar ended up in Abraham's bosom being comforted while the rich man begged Abraham to go and tell his brothers about this place so they wouldn't end up there. This is where disembodied spirits go until Jesus comes to take us home.
PURGATORY DOES NOT EXIST - IT IS A FALSE TEACHING BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
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There is no purgatory because a person will either be with Christ or the lower parts of the earth when they die,which the Bible says to die is to be with Christ and even Christ told the thief he will be with Him that day,and the wicked shall go to the lower parts of the earth.
My understanding of the RCC view is that it is a purification of works, of the straw, stubble that we acquire in our lives. In other words, some works were not exactly Christlike. Most man do not achieve perfection in this life, that is attain to the Likeness of Christ, so what imperfections we have are burned off. RCC view is much more than that and from within the veiw one gets the idea of indulgences, merit, penence. There is also the idea of correction. RCC makes much more of it, but the foundation is in scripture. It is also in Jewish history.
I do like the unity of the RCC because they don't have so many different denominations like the protestant church has but the most demonic belief of their religion is this purgatory or limbo which makes the blood of Jesus of Jesus as not a finished work and a enemy of the cross.Catholic admit first of all they are still sinners, so the grace of God can not saved them and the blood of Jesus can not wash away al their sins or stains of sin, so they invented a purgatory as a safety net and a second chance to get washed in their wizard of OZ purgatory myth!
purgatory makes the gospel of no effect and goes against our salvation message and eternal redemption, and justification biblical doctrine, which Christ established for us. This belief of purgatory is the most clear proof that the RCC can not be christians only what they are catholic alone, and the same
for muslims is Islam alone, without Christ redemption plain!
Shalom!
purgatory makes the gospel of no effect and goes against our salvation message and eternal redemption, and justification biblical doctrine, which Christ established for us. This belief of purgatory is the most clear proof that the RCC can not be christians only what they are catholic alone, and the same
for muslims is Islam alone, without Christ redemption plain!
Shalom!
After all the debating about Purgatory, a False teaching by the Roman Catholic Church, I have realized that my statement was correct as nobody could convince me that it exists. It would have been great if there was a Purgatory to give you a second chance, but if you have failed with the first chance to be saved, the chances are good that you will fail with the second one. Purgatory teaching also links with spiritualism which is linked to Satanism. When you die, there is no spirit moving out of your body and floating around somewhere. You cannot be either in heaven, or hell, just after you have died, because that means that you have been judged, and the Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is still coming to pass the final judgement. So, when you die, you become a dead soul, because the breath has left your body, and is then buried, and with the resurrecting of your body with the coming of the Lord, it could be either the first or the second coming, you will become a living soul again, either to go to heaven or to be destroyed by fire and brimstone.
Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Hebrews 3:8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" http://www.catholic.com/tracts/purgatory
sift
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noun
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sift
sift/
verb
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 1.
put (a fine, loose, or powdery substance) through a sieve so as to remove lumps or large particles.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"sift the flour into a large bowl"[/COLOR]
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[TD]sieve, strain, screen, filter, riddle; More
[/TD]
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[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 2.
examine (something) thoroughly so as to isolate that which is most important or useful.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"until we sift the evidence ourselves, we can't comment objectively"[/COLOR]
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[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]search through, look through, examine, inspect, scrutinize, pore over,investigate, analyze, dissect, review More
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noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]
- 1.
an act of sifting something, especially so as to isolate that which is most important or useful.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"a careful archaeological sift must be made through the debris"
Luke 22:31 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.[/COLOR]
cross-ex·am·ine
verb
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verb
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- question (a witness called by the other party) in a court of law to discredit or undercut testimony already given.
- question (someone) aggressively or in great detail.
- question (someone) aggressively or in great detail.
Purgatory is NOT a second chance. It is the state in which the saved are totally purged of their evil. None of us are perfect, so there must be a middle state between death and eternity when we become truly perfect. Whether this is instantaneous or not is unknown.
So that we could be forgiven and be allowed to enter Heaven. Tell me, since you accepted Christ, do you still sin? The reason we still sin is because we are not perfect. Our flesh and our mind are still fallen. When we die, the flesh is gone, but our mind (our will) is still with us. So, how does this will become perfected? It becomes perfected through Christ. How this is done, we don't know. But we call the process "purgation" and the so called place, better put the state in which this process happens is called purgatory. Its for the saved alone. No one who isn't saved will be perfected.
Now you may ask, how long does this take? Doesn't the church teach you will be there for centuries? The answers are "we don't know" and "maybe, but more likely it doesn't take time...since we will be Christ and time is irrelevant." It may be instantaneous, but to our feeble minds the process may feel somewhat longer, since in this purgation Christ perfects us mind and soul. On the day of our resurrection, the perfect body will be supplied.
Re: PURGATORY
Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.
Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.
Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.
Why Go To Purgatory?
Why would anyone go to purgatory? To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean." Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. He needs to be cleansed completely.
Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist, put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost. The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . . It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man."
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
No Contradiction
The Fundamentalist resistance to the biblical doctrine of purgatory presumes there is a contradiction between Christ’s redeeming us on the cross and the process by which we are sanctified. There isn’t. And a Fundamentalist cannot say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict. The Fundamentalist has it backward: Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross. Rather, the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because "[f]or the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness" (Heb. 12:11).
Nothing Unclean
Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean, but actually be clean, before a man may enter into eternal life. After all, if a guilty soul is merely "covered," if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul. It is still unclean.
Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that "nothing unclean shall enter heaven." From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if "covered," remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven. It needs to be cleansed or "purged" of its remaining imperfections. The cleansing occurs in purgatory. Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit." Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven. It is an absolute requirement, as Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
Purgatory | Catholic Answers
Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.
Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.
Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.
Why Go To Purgatory?
Why would anyone go to purgatory? To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean." Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. He needs to be cleansed completely.
Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist, put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost. The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . . It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man."
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
No Contradiction
The Fundamentalist resistance to the biblical doctrine of purgatory presumes there is a contradiction between Christ’s redeeming us on the cross and the process by which we are sanctified. There isn’t. And a Fundamentalist cannot say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict. The Fundamentalist has it backward: Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross. Rather, the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because "[f]or the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness" (Heb. 12:11).
Nothing Unclean
Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean, but actually be clean, before a man may enter into eternal life. After all, if a guilty soul is merely "covered," if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul. It is still unclean.
Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that "nothing unclean shall enter heaven." From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if "covered," remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven. It needs to be cleansed or "purged" of its remaining imperfections. The cleansing occurs in purgatory. Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as 2 Thessalonians 2:13, which declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit." Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven. It is an absolute requirement, as Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
Purgatory | Catholic Answers
[h=1]Matthew 12:31-32King James Version (KJV)[/h]31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Thank brother for you long response,
1. I will response Matt 12:32
In my opinion, this verse not suggesting there will be second chance. It not state there will be another chance
I believe every sin that are not forgiven after death will not be forgiven forever. It can be see in the parable of 10 virgin.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Thank brother for you long response,
1. I will response Matt 12:32
In my opinion, this verse not suggesting there will be second chance. It not state there will be another chance
I believe every sin that are not forgiven after death will not be forgiven forever. It can be see in the parable of 10 virgin.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Re: PURGATORY
I will response to Brother Maynard On this subject.
Why Go To Purgatory?
Why would anyone go to purgatory? To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean." Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. He needs to be cleansed completely.
Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist, put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost. The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . . It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man."
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
Jackson:
I believe Jesus cleanse our sin by His blood. All we need is confess and repent.
Rom 3
[SUP]1[/SUP] Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
[SUP]2[/SUP] But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
[SUP]3[/SUP] And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
1. In verse 1, the Lord said that He well send a messenger, so this subject is not about purgatory, it is about messenger send by God not Purgatory send by God. And he, on verse 2 not refer to purgatory, why use he for purgatory, purgatory is not a man. He refer to messenger of God that will purify a people from sin by warn them.
and verse 2 follow by the question: who shall stand when he appeareth? It look like not talking about purgatory at all. It talking about the messenger of God that will warn of the sin, No many will stand warning. People don't like warning.
This messenger of the Lord will offer righteousness as a result of his warning. Warning make some people turn to the Lord as righteousness people.
So far I don't see this verse describe about purgatory at all. It describe about the messenger of the Lord that will purify the people from the sin.
People that doesn't stand this warning will be accuse by God in verse 5
I will response to Brother Maynard On this subject.
Why Go To Purgatory?
Why would anyone go to purgatory? To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21:27). Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean." Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. He needs to be cleansed completely.
Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist, put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost. The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . . It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man."
It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
Jackson:
I believe Jesus cleanse our sin by His blood. All we need is confess and repent.
Rom 3
[SUP]1[/SUP] Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
[SUP]2[/SUP] But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
[SUP]3[/SUP] And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
1. In verse 1, the Lord said that He well send a messenger, so this subject is not about purgatory, it is about messenger send by God not Purgatory send by God. And he, on verse 2 not refer to purgatory, why use he for purgatory, purgatory is not a man. He refer to messenger of God that will purify a people from sin by warn them.
and verse 2 follow by the question: who shall stand when he appeareth? It look like not talking about purgatory at all. It talking about the messenger of God that will warn of the sin, No many will stand warning. People don't like warning.
This messenger of the Lord will offer righteousness as a result of his warning. Warning make some people turn to the Lord as righteousness people.
So far I don't see this verse describe about purgatory at all. It describe about the messenger of the Lord that will purify the people from the sin.
People that doesn't stand this warning will be accuse by God in verse 5