ONCE saved always saved!.

[Atwood]

So you don't believe you have to repent or ask for forgiveness for your sins in order to be saved ?

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

There is only one must-I-do.
Do you believe God's word, Kenneth?

repent = change mind = change mind from not trusting/believing to trusting/believing; same thing.

Coming to Christ for salvation implies you think you are a sinner needing a Savior.
"Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins."

Yes there is plenty of scriptures that say believe in the Lord, and you shall be saved. There is also plenty that say, must be born again to be saved, must repent, must forgive or you will not be forgiven, and so forth.

I have posted the plenty for believe & be saved. I only know of one chapter that says "Ye must be born again a couple of times." If you have plenty, quote them. Being born again is not something you do, it is something done to you when you believe. There are many things God does in salvation; man just does one = believes.

Your passage on forgive to be forgiven says nothing about salvation or a Savior. It is understood as relating to woodshed forgiveness, avoiding chastisement, which only believers can have.

Now let's see the proof for the others, namely that they are not only a few to be understood as another way of saying believe.

To many erase all the rest that Jesus said to be saved, and just water it down to mere belief ( He existed and died on the cross and rose on the third day ).

We don't erase a thing. But we also do not admit into evidence what is not said to pertain to salvation. Nor do we confuse what God does for us in salvation with what we must do.

Read Matthew 25, both groups believed in Jesus as Lord, but only one's groups faith was strong enough that they did what they were suppose to out of love and not obligation. Lord Jesus said to those come to eternal life, and the other group He cast away to ever lasting punishment.

I have read Mat 25. There is nothing about salvation in that chapter; the word does not occur. You confuse judgment with salvation -- 2 different subjects. Judgment is by works, salvation is by grace.
"Both groups" is a distortion; there are 3 groups.

If you want to know about salvation, read the material on that subject.

And as you sort out your doctrine,
do it within the confines of clear revelation who that works save not one, but works follow salvation as the result of salvation, not its cause. And realize that this is true:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

I give them eternal lie, and they shall never perish. In determining salvation, the master control are the scriptures specifically on that subject. And remember that salvation begins in this life, continues in the present & is guaranteed for the future. There is no concept of losing salvation in the Bible, nor does Mat 25 say anything like that.

 

[wgeurts]

Yes, and like I said you acknowledge that you did wrong and asked for forgiveness of it.

However there are some that believe they can repent, accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and He died on the cross for the remission of sins, and rose on the third day, Be baptized, and ask for forgiveness of their sins.

But then think they can then go and lie, murder, still, commit adultery, and any other sin on a regular every day basis without repenting/asking forgiveness for them because they think there is no need or it isn't wrong to live this way.

That is a false teaching and very dangerous. We learn from Hebrews 10:26 you can not willfully sin after receiving the truth, and still be saved.

Ah, but you can question if they where saved at all. Jesus knows ones heart and if you are truely meaning what you are saying only he knows. If they had truely been saved they would of shown signs of being saved "Good Fruit" but they think Jesus is a free ticket to life. They are not truely repenting as saying sorry for your sins means that you will try to not do them again. This is what I once again believe; I try to follow God but I will stumble but I know in my heart that Im forgiven.

1John

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[kennethcadwell]

TJ I posted a study done on the history of the church awhile back, and it showed that the early church lead by the Apostles Peter and Paul did not teach from them for the next 500 years OSAS, they taught the opposite.

It was not tell about 500 years later that a man named John Calvin started teaching this, and his followers carried it on. Hince why the belief in OSAS is usually stated as Calvinism. Because he started it.

DiscipleDave: Tell me, how long have you been a disciple of Christ? And who told you that this was a teaching of men? Because the bible certainly DOES TEACH OSAS. You should read the word of God more carefully, my friend...

 

[Atwood]

That is a false teaching and very dangerous. We learn from Hebrews 10:26 you can not willfully sin after receiving the truth, and still be saved.

Heb 10:26 does not have the word salvation in it, and the verse says nothing about losing salvation. In fact the whole context of Heb 10 teaches the security of the believer and how he does not shrink back from salvation.

Heb 10:

For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh. Else would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrificesthere is a remembrance made of sins year by year. For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,
Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
But a body didst thou prepare for me;
In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hadst no pleasure:
Then said I, Lo, I am come
(In the roll of the book it is written of me)
To do thy will, O God.


Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law), then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins: but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. For
by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also beareth witness to us; for after he hath said,
This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, saith the Lord:
I will put my laws on their heart,
And upon their mind also will I write them;
then saith he,
And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


At the end of Heb is an explanatory verse:

But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Oppose not yourself, Kenneth. Christ died to buy you salvation. You must believe in Him as Savior, not as chance-giver.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Can you bring yourself to believe that?

 

[Atwood]

TJ I posted a study done on the history of the church awhile back, and it showed that the early church lead by the Apostles Peter and Paul did not teach from them for the next 500 years OSAS, they taught the opposite.

It was not tell about 500 years later that a man named John Calvin started teaching this, and his followers carried it on. Hince why the belief in OSAS is usually stated as Calvinism. Because he started it.

You have been hoodwinked Kenneth. Not only is Eternal Security in the Bible, but early so-called "Church fathers" attest to the existence of the doctrine early in Church History.


CHURCH HISTORY

Doctrine comes from God's word, not human tradition. Thus the argument from church fathers is invalid.
First there were many who believed in universalism, which is an extreme form of ES. I have posted a long post on that.

Instead of believing the canards posted (lacking proof) start by checking a standard Early Christian Doctrines text like that of J.N.D. Kelly, HarperCollins Publishers.

Now I would ask you, if Origen, Augustine, Jerome, Ambrose, Hilary, and Ambrosiaster all lived after 1500???

Here is an internet quote which starts with Augustine's testimony as to the existence of the ES doctrine:

Augustine wrote about the large variety of views of salvation that existed in his day, including some that involved some form of eternal security:

"I must now, I see, enter the lists of amicable controversy with those tender-hearted Christianswho decline to believe that any, . . . of those whom the . . . Judge may pronounce worthy . . . hell, shall suffer eternally, and who suppose that they shall be delivered after a fixed term of punishment . . . In respect of this matter, Origen . . . believed that even the devil himself and his angels . . . should be delivered from their torment, . . . . But the Church, not without reason, condemned him for this and other errors...

There are others, . . . who, . . . attribute to God a still greater compassion towards men. . . . when the judgment comes, mercy will prevail. . . .

So, too, there are others who promise this deliverance from eternal punishment, not, indeed, to all men, but only to those who have been washed in Christian baptism, and who become partakers of the body of Christ, no matter how they have lived, or what heresy or impiety they have fallen into. They ground this opinion on the saying of Jesus, 'This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that if any man eat thereof, he shall not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If a man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever.' Therefore, say they, it follows that these persons must be delivered from death eternal, and at one time or other be introduced to everlasting life.

There are others still who make this promise not even to all who have received the sacraments of the baptism of Christ and of His body, but only to the Catholics,however badly they have lived. For these . . . being incorporated in His body, as the apostle says, 'We, being many, are one bread, one body;' so that, though they have afterwards lapsed into some heresy, or even into heathenism and idolatry, yet by virtue of this one thing, that they have received the baptism of Christ, and eaten the body of Christ, in the body of Christ, that is to say, in the catholic Church, they shall not die eternally, but at one time or other obtain eternal life; and all that wickedness of theirs shall not avail to make their punishment eternal, but only proportionately long and severe....

But, say they [others], the catholic Christians have Christ for a foundation, and they have not fallen away from union with Him, no matter how depraved a life they have built on this foundation, as wood, hay, stubble; and accordingly the well-directed faith by whichChrist is their foundation will suffice to deliver them some time from the continuance of that fire, though it be with loss, since those things they have built on it shall be burned." (The City Of God, 21:17-20, 21:22, 21:26)

Some other examples:

"Saint Jerome, though an enemy of Origen, was, when it came to salvation, more of an Origenist than Ambrose. He believed that all sinners, all mortal beings, with the exception of Satan, atheists, and the ungodly, would be saved: 'Just as we believe that the torments of the Devil, of all the deniers of God, of the ungodly who have said in their hearts, 'there is no God,' will be eternal, so too do we believe that the judgment of Christian sinners, whose works will be tried and purged in fire will be moderate and mixed with clemency.' Furthermore, 'He who with all his spirit has placed his faith in Christ, even if he die in sin, shall by his faith live forever.'" (Jacques Le Goff, The Birth Of Purgatory [Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1986], p. 61)

"Jerome develops the same distinction, stating that, while the Devil and the impious who have denied God will be tortured without remission, those who have trusted in Christ, even if they have sinned and fallen away, will eventually be saved. Much the same teaching appears in
Ambrose, developed in greater detail." (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 484)

"Like Hilary and Ambrose,
Ambrosiaster distinguishes three categories: the saints and the righteous, who will go directly to heaven at the time of the resurrection; the ungodly, apostates, infidels, and atheists, who will go directly into the fiery torments of Hell; and the ordinary Christians, who, though sinners, will first pay their debt and for a time be purified by fire but then go to Paradise because they had the faith. Commenting on Paul, Ambrosiaster writes:

'He [Paul] said: 'yet so as by fire,' because this salvation exists not without pain; for he did not say, 'he shall be saved by fire,' but when he says, 'yet so as by fire,' he wants to show that this salvation is to come, but that he must suffer the pains of fire; so that, purged by fire, he may be saved and not, like the infidels [perfidi], tormented forever by eternal fire; if for a portion of his works he has some value, it is because he believed in Christ.'" (Jacques Le Goff, The Birth Of Purgatory [Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1986], p. 61)

"we find Ambrosiaster teaching that, while the really wicked, 'will be tormented with everlasting punishment',the chastisement of Christian sinners will be of a temporary duration." (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 484)

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I John 1:7 But if (CONDITIONAL) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

ONLY IF we walk in the light does He cleanse us from all sin. So if a person is walking in fornication, they are NOT walking in the light are they? If one is viewing pornography are they walking in the light as Jesus did? God Forbid. How is one walking in the light if they continue to lie all the time? they are not walking in the light. How is one walking in the light if they are not LOVING ONE ANOTHER?
Again Scriptures are True and what men teach is false. IF we walk in the light as Jesus did, THEN does His blood cleanseth us from all sin, but NOT before then.
Many claim they are cleansed by His blood (Saved) but do NOT walk in the light as He did, and still think they are Saved and Cleansed, there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth by many Christians who think they are Saved and Cleansed but who Scripturally speaking are not. i, in love warn you of this, change and repent of your sins, and cease from them. Jesus in you can give you the Strength to do so.

^i^

1 John 1 - written to those already born again and its context is fellowship -
v3 - That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that you also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus NOT - 'that you also may have "salvation" with us and truly our "salvation" is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
v6 - If we say that we have fellowship [again, not salvation] with him and WALK in darkness we lie and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship [not salvation] one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So far this section of scripture is concerning a Christian's walk NOT salvation. . .

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Apparently, God knew that we, at times, would have trouble walking in the light as he is in the light and made provision for us when we strayed out of bounds, and stumbled into darkness. For those that want to believe that they have never strayed out of bounds and walked in darkness they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them.

Repeat. . . . This whole chapter 1 is regarding a Christian's walk NOT salvation. . . .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heb 10:26 does not have the word salvation in it, and the verse says nothing about losing salvation. In fact the whole context of Heb 10 teaches the security of the believer and how he does not shrink back from salvation.

Heb 10:

For the law having a shadow of the good things to come, not the very image of the things, can never with the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect them that draw nigh. Else would they not have ceased to be offered? because the worshippers, having been once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in those sacrificesthere is a remembrance made of sins year by year. For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith,
Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not,
But a body didst thou prepare for me;
In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hadst no pleasure:
Then said I, Lo, I am come
(In the roll of the book it is written of me)
To do thy will, O God.


Saying above, Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein (the which are offered according to the law), then hath he said, Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins: but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. For
by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also beareth witness to us; for after he hath said,
This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, saith the Lord:
I will put my laws on their heart,
And upon their mind also will I write them;
then saith he,
And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


At the end of Heb is an explanatory verse:

But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Oppose not yourself, Kenneth. Christ died to buy you salvation. You must believe in Him as Savior, not as chance-giver.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Can you bring yourself to believe that?

I do not think it gets any clearer than this.

If OSAS was false. we would still be offering sacrifices.

We do not, because Jesus one sacrifice perfected them forever those who are being set apart.

people need to stop looking at history written by men, and look to the word of God.

 

[Atwood]

Brother, may you provide scriptures to prove your statement? Say where it is states that you can lose salvation.

He cannot. In scripture I find no concept of "lose salvation." Salvation is salvation, not "given a chance."

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Actually the 2 words lose & salvation never even occur in one verse together in the Bible.

And the opponents are likely to quote passages where there is no Savior & no salvation even mentioned.

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is true that they will produce good fruit ( elsewise know as good works ).

There are some that do this, and then fall away do to a trial and tribulation in their life.
Example: A man I know who is now 56. I talked to him because he goes around petitioning against Christians and states how he does not believe in God or our Lord Jesus. When talking to him, I found out that he grew up in a real religious family that was dedicated to going to church. He himself even took the courses and got ordained to preach. He did this for most of his life, and then at 48 his wife died in a tragic accident. From that day on is when he said he stopped believing in God and Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and that they even exist.

Maybe he will eventually come back and see the truth, and I pray to God that he will.

Right now though he is denying Christ, which means he is no longer in a saved state.

The scriptures say if you deny me or do not believe in me, you will not be saved. So unless he eventually comes back to the truth, he will remain in an unsaved state.

Ah, but you can question if they where saved at all. Jesus knows ones heart and if you are truely meaning what you are saying only he knows. If they had truely been saved they would of shown signs of being saved "Good Fruit" but they think Jesus is a free ticket to life. They are not truely repenting as saying sorry for your sins means that you will try to not do them again. This is what I once again believe; I try to follow God but I will stumble but I know in my heart that Im forgiven.

 

[wgeurts]

That is true that they will produce good fruit ( elsewise know as good works ).

There are some that do this, and then fall away do to a trial and tribulation in their life.
Example: A man I know who is now 56. I talked to him because he goes around petitioning against Christians and states how he does not believe in God or our Lord Jesus. When talking to him, I found out that he grew up in a real religious family that was dedicated to going to church. He himself even took the courses and got ordained to preach. He did this for most of his life, and then at 48 his wife died in a tragic accident. From that day on is when he said he stopped believing in God and Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and that they even exist.

Maybe he will eventually come back and see the truth, and I pray to God that he will.

Right now though he is denying Christ, which means he is no longer in a saved state.

The scriptures say if you deny me or do not believe in me, you will not be saved. So unless he eventually comes back to the truth, he will remain in an unsaved state.

Somewhere in 1John:
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

He too may not have been saved, only God knows his heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He cannot. In scripture I find no concept of "lose salvation." Salvation is salvation, not "given a chance."

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Actually the 2 words lose & salvation never even occur in one verse together in the Bible.

And the opponents are likely to quote passages where there is no Savior & no salvation even mentioned.

amen.

Your either saved or not saved.

If your salvation is not secure, it is no salvation at all.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No I have not been hoodwinked, for even Augustine was listed in that study of the early church.

And in his " Perseverance of the Saints, " Augustine listed different groups of believers. One of the points he made was there was a difference between the elect and other believers. He said only the chosen elect fell under the always saved philosophy.
Other believers, as in new gentile believers had to hold fast, persevere, and endure what they were to go through before attaining that salvation.

You have been hoodwinked Kenneth. Not only is Eternal Security in the Bible, but early so-called "Church fathers" attest to the existence of the doctrine early in Church History.


CHURCH HISTORY

Doctrine comes from God's word, not human tradition. Thus the argument from church fathers is invalid.
First there were many who believed in universalism, which is an extreme form of ES. I have posted a long post on that.

Instead of believing the canards posted (lacking proof) start by checking a standard Early Christian Doctrines text like that of J.N.D. Kelly, HarperCollins Publishers.

Now I would ask you, if Origen, Augustine, Jerome, Ambrose, Hilary, and Ambrosiaster all lived after 1500???

Here is an internet quote which starts with Augustine's testimony as to the existence of the ES doctrine:

Augustine wrote about the large variety of views of salvation that existed in his day, including some that involved some form of eternal security:

"I must now, I see, enter the lists of amicable controversy with those tender-hearted Christianswho decline to believe that any, . . . of those whom the . . . Judge may pronounce worthy . . . hell, shall suffer eternally, and who suppose that they shall be delivered after a fixed term of punishment . . . In respect of this matter, Origen . . . believed that even the devil himself and his angels . . . should be delivered from their torment, . . . . But the Church, not without reason, condemned him for this and other errors...

There are others, . . . who, . . . attribute to God a still greater compassion towards men. . . . when the judgment comes, mercy will prevail. . . .

So, too, there are others who promise this deliverance from eternal punishment, not, indeed, to all men, but only to those who have been washed in Christian baptism, and who become partakers of the body of Christ, no matter how they have lived, or what heresy or impiety they have fallen into. They ground this opinion on the saying of Jesus, 'This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that if any man eat thereof, he shall not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If a man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever.' Therefore, say they, it follows that these persons must be delivered from death eternal, and at one time or other be introduced to everlasting life.

There are others still who make this promise not even to all who have received the sacraments of the baptism of Christ and of His body, but only to the Catholics,however badly they have lived. For these . . . being incorporated in His body, as the apostle says, 'We, being many, are one bread, one body;' so that, though they have afterwards lapsed into some heresy, or even into heathenism and idolatry, yet by virtue of this one thing, that they have received the baptism of Christ, and eaten the body of Christ, in the body of Christ, that is to say, in the catholic Church, they shall not die eternally, but at one time or other obtain eternal life; and all that wickedness of theirs shall not avail to make their punishment eternal, but only proportionately long and severe....

But, say they [others], the catholic Christians have Christ for a foundation, and they have not fallen away from union with Him, no matter how depraved a life they have built on this foundation, as wood, hay, stubble; and accordingly the well-directed faith by whichChrist is their foundation will suffice to deliver them some time from the continuance of that fire, though it be with loss, since those things they have built on it shall be burned." (The City Of God, 21:17-20, 21:22, 21:26)

Some other examples:

"Saint Jerome, though an enemy of Origen, was, when it came to salvation, more of an Origenist than Ambrose. He believed that all sinners, all mortal beings, with the exception of Satan, atheists, and the ungodly, would be saved: 'Just as we believe that the torments of the Devil, of all the deniers of God, of the ungodly who have said in their hearts, 'there is no God,' will be eternal, so too do we believe that the judgment of Christian sinners, whose works will be tried and purged in fire will be moderate and mixed with clemency.' Furthermore, 'He who with all his spirit has placed his faith in Christ, even if he die in sin, shall by his faith live forever.'" (Jacques Le Goff, The Birth Of Purgatory [Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1986], p. 61)

"Jerome develops the same distinction, stating that, while the Devil and the impious who have denied God will be tortured without remission, those who have trusted in Christ, even if they have sinned and fallen away, will eventually be saved. Much the same teaching appears in
Ambrose, developed in greater detail." (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 484)

"Like Hilary and Ambrose,
Ambrosiaster distinguishes three categories: the saints and the righteous, who will go directly to heaven at the time of the resurrection; the ungodly, apostates, infidels, and atheists, who will go directly into the fiery torments of Hell; and the ordinary Christians, who, though sinners, will first pay their debt and for a time be purified by fire but then go to Paradise because they had the faith. Commenting on Paul, Ambrosiaster writes:

'He [Paul] said: 'yet so as by fire,' because this salvation exists not without pain; for he did not say, 'he shall be saved by fire,' but when he says, 'yet so as by fire,' he wants to show that this salvation is to come, but that he must suffer the pains of fire; so that, purged by fire, he may be saved and not, like the infidels [perfidi], tormented forever by eternal fire; if for a portion of his works he has some value, it is because he believed in Christ.'" (Jacques Le Goff, The Birth Of Purgatory [Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1986], p. 61)

"we find Ambrosiaster teaching that, while the really wicked, 'will be tormented with everlasting punishment',the chastisement of Christian sinners will be of a temporary duration." (J.N.D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines [San Francisco, California: HarperCollins Publishers, 1978], p. 484)

 

[Alligator]

Brother, may you provide scriptures to prove your statement? Say where it is states that you can lose salvation.

Certainly, Gal. 5:4; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 10:26-27; Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Pet. 2:20-21; Heb. 3:12-14; Jas. 5:19-20; Col. 1:22-23; Rom. 11:22.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes, and I covered this before with Atwood. If you keep reading in that chapter, it talks that those who went out from them because they did not truly belong was an example of anti-christs ( those who came in for the soul purpose of perverting the gospel ).

It is not talking about those who were in the word, and then left because of bad situations that came into their life ( trials and tribulations we are to endure ).

Somewhere in 1John:
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

He too may not have been saved, only God knows his heart.

 

[SeaBass]

1 John 1 - written to those already born again and its context is fellowship -
v3 - That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that you also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus NOT - 'that you also may have "salvation" with us and truly our "salvation" is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.
v6 - If we say that we have fellowship [again, not salvation] with him and WALK in darkness we lie and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship [not salvation] one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So far this section of scripture is concerning a Christian's walk NOT salvation. . .

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Apparently, God knew that we, at times, would have trouble walking in the light as he is in the light and made provision for us when we strayed out of bounds, and stumbled into darkness. For those that want to believe that they have never strayed out of bounds and walked in darkness they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them.

Repeat. . . . This whole chapter 1 is regarding a Christian's walk NOT salvation. . . .

----It's not possible to be saved while out of fellowship with God and in fellowship with Satan.

--Verse 6 talks about walking in darkness, lying and not having the truth (Jn 17:17) and you say this has nothing to do with salvation?????? It has everything to do with salvation.

--Verse 7 speaks about cleansing away of sin and v9 speaks about forgiveness and you say 1 Jn 1 has nothing to do with salvation?????? Cleansing away of sins, forgiveness has EVERYTHING to do with salvation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Luke 13:3 and 5

" I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. "


Perish, not saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 13:3 and 5

" I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. "


Perish, not saved.

yep, because they have not been saved yet.

 

[kennethcadwell]

But it is something one must do to be saved. That is the point.

There are some who want to say repentance is not needed for salvation, but it clearly is.

yep, because they have not been saved yet.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Let me show you something:

Ezekiel 18:24-26

But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.

This is from the old testament, now lets look at something with the same sentiment from the new:

2 Peter 2:20-22


For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”


Both of these say the same thing from the old and new testaments, just different wording.​

 

[peacefulbeliever]

----It's not possible to be saved while out of fellowship with God and in fellowship with Satan.

--Verse 6 talks about walking in darkness, lying and not having the truth (Jn 17:17) and you say this has nothing to do with salvation?????? It has everything to do with salvation.

--Verse 7 speaks about cleansing away of sin and v9 speaks about forgiveness and you say 1 Jn 1 has nothing to do with salvation?????? Cleansing away of sins, forgiveness has EVERYTHING to do with salvation.

You just don't get it . . . This section of scripture speaks to those that are saved and concerns their walk. verse 6 - the lie is saying that you walk in the light when you are not [which is the picture a lot of peeps on here try to concoct] You are already saved - you are walking in the light - the path in front of you is clearly marked with white lines outlined in yellow [do not pass] like on a highway - you stumble and fall across the line - at that point you are now walking in darkness - but you are still saved - Your heavenly Father is just waiting for you to turn around get your bearings and get back in the boundary lines - that is a Christian's walk after salvation. This is how we, as humans, deal with our children - How could God do less with his children. His love is much greater than ours for He is love . . . .