Dear Church of England......Please take not to verse 12

[p_rehbein]

QUOTED:

Deborah was not a priest. She was not even a levite, and you had to be one to be a priest.

Deb was a judge. In the discussion of women pastors to bring up Deborah is ignorance of who she was but it does define what those who support women pastors believe a pastor is...

a position of power.

See, this is all about power and women seeking it. Its not about serving God and being the servant leader of pastor. Its about...well men pastor why can't I? It is pure covetness and the main reason why God told wives to...submit. Why God says clearly in 1 Tim 2:12 women should not teach or have spiritual authority over men. Try reading the bible for what it says, not what someone votes in.

How about basing your doctrines and what runs your church on the freaking bible, not some popular vote.

END QUOTATION.........

Actually, when people mention Deborah, they are not addressing women being Pastors, they are addressing the idea that women are REFUSED "leadership positions" in the Church.................Not ALL leadership positions are Pastoral in nature.

So, before criticizing, please assure you are addressing the proper argument..........

 

[dcontroversal]

Deborah was not a priest. She was not even a levite, and you had to be one to be a priest.

Deb was a judge. In the discussion of women pastors to bring up Deborah is ignorance of who she was but it does define what those who support women pastors believe a pastor is...

a position of power.

See, this is all about power and women seeking it. Its not about serving God and being the servant leader of pastor. Its about...well men pastor why can't I? It is pure covetness and the main reason why God told wives to...submit. Why God says clearly in 1 Tim 2:12 women should not teach or have spiritual authority over men. Try reading the bible for what it says, not what someone votes in.

How about basing your doctrines and what runs your church on the freaking bible, not some popular vote.

She also had a man involved albeit behind the scenes because of his unwillingness to lead from the front....

 

[p_rehbein]

What she had was the most powerful General of the Israeli Army refusing to OBEY God's command to go and fight..........because he was AFRAID to UNLESS Deborah AGREED to LEAD the Army into battle..........

Let us not give this guy any credit as some sort of pseudo-hero in all of this, because he wasn't. There was ALSO another hero of this battle, and this other hero was a woman as well...........

 

[jeremy1981]

"How about basing your doctrines and what runs your church on the freaking bible, not some popular vote."

Oh, how I wish we could. Did I mention that the Church of England is only one part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, which includes the Episcopal Church of North America, Canada, Australia, and parts of Africa? It is a proverbial 'bag of cats', with three main strands: Evangelical (which I fall into), the liberal, and the Anglo-Catholic, which tends to focus on the more sacramental aspects (communion central to worship).

The vote of the General Synod is made with three things in consideration.

1) Teaching of scripture.
2) Church Tradition (which, in my opinion, should come from 1)
3) Reason (which, in my opinion has nothing to do with 1 or 2)

Of course, there are many different opinions on interpretation of scripture, so people don't always get it right. For a former Pentecostal like myself, navigating the aspects of the CofE I loathe, while loving my more liberal brothers is quite the task.

 

[Ohioguy]

Well, you could Google it and found out if it's in the news...... I'm pretty sure you'll find a couple articles about it

 

[Ohioguy]

I really have nothing against woman as to the 'sexiest' idea....I do believe God created us very differently, and for a purpose..... One should compliment the other.....but it's very clear, One of the sexes are called to lead, and the other is to follow that lead....there's scripture about Sarah calling Abraham Lord (1 peter 3:6), and if a woman is professing to be Godly, peter says, she should do the same.......... If you think that makes me sexiest....tell that to the bride of Christ who follows HIS lead........He does not follow the brides lead, and he doesn't follow the sheep....He leads them, guides them... ect....and he places MEN in his church to do that same, and in the home....if this gets out of order....things go into chaos, and many get lost, hurt, eating, etc......... We could go on and on in scripture of examples of this..... This is Christianity 101....But sadly, as one brother has shown who is IN the church as a member....they are a house divided...and Jesus is very clear about homes divided...they won't stand......If you are not united in the word of Truth and have the mind of Christ, and go about creating your own agendas, as The church of England has, (homosexual leadership, Women leadership, ect.) you will not stand when the trials and storms when they come as Jesus said they would......( Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues.)_

 

[dcontroversal]

What she had was the most powerful General of the Israeli Army refusing to OBEY God's command to go and fight..........because he was AFRAID to UNLESS Deborah AGREED to LEAD the Army into battle..........

Let us not give this guy any credit as some sort of pseudo-hero in all of this, because he wasn't. There was ALSO another hero of this battle, and this other hero was a woman as well...........

At the end of the day there are no hero's, but God and had he not been in the battle no number under heaven could have prevailed....

She also had a man involved albeit behind the scenes because of his unwillingness to lead from the front

 

[p_rehbein]

[h=1]Judges
4[/h]
1 .) And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, when Ehud was dead.
2 .) And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles.
3 .) And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel.
4 .) And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.
5 .) And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.
6 .) And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?
7 .) And I will draw unto thee to the river Kishon Sisera, the captain of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his multitude; and I will deliver him into thine hand.
8 .) And Barak said unto her, If thou wilt go with me, then I will go: but if thou wilt not go with me, then I will not go.


[pretty clear to me that Barak was COMMANDED by God...........and yet, refused to go into battle UNLESS Deborah LED]
9 .) And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.

[pretty clear to me that Barak was not to receive any "honor" for the victory......be the "hero" of the battle.....rather God "sold Sisera into the hand of a woman.......]

10 .) And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.
11 .) Now Heber the Kenite, which was of the children of Hobab the father in law of Moses, had severed himself from the Kenites, and pitched his tent unto the plain of Zaanaim, which is by Kedesh.
12 .) And they shewed Sisera that Barak the son of Abinoam was gone up to mount Tabor.
13 .) And Sisera gathered together all his chariots, even nine hundred chariots of iron, and all the people that were with him, from Harosheth of the Gentiles unto the river of Kishon.
14 .) And Deborah said unto Barak, Up; for this is the day in which the LORD hath delivered Sisera into thine hand: is not the LORD gone out before thee? So Barak went down from mount Tabor, and ten thousand men after him.
15 .) And the LORD discomfited Sisera, and all his chariots, and all his host, with the edge of the sword before Barak; so that Sisera lighted down off his chariot, and fled away on his feet.
16 .) But Barak pursued after the chariots, and after the host, unto Harosheth of the Gentiles: and all the host of Sisera fell upon the edge of the sword; and there was not a man left.
17 .) Howbeit Sisera fled away on his feet to the tent of Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite: for there was peace between Jabin the king of Hazor and the house of Heber the Kenite.
18 .) And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle.
19 .) And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him.
20 .) Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No.
21 .) Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
22 .) And, behold, as Barak pursued Sisera, Jael came out to meet him, and said unto him, Come, and I will shew thee the man whom thou seekest. And when he came into her tent, behold, Sisera lay dead, and the nail was in his temples.
23 .) So God subdued on that day Jabin the king of Canaan before the children of Israel.
24 .) And the hand of the children of Israel prospered, and prevailed against Jabin the king of Canaan, until they had destroyed Jabin king of Canaan.

At the end of the day, there were two hero's in this account............Deborah who was obedient to God, and Jael who God used for His purpose........but, that's just me........

And Barak being part of the event is to HIS SHAME.............One can not attempt to justify a view that women are not allowed to be in positions of leadership simply because Barak is included in these events.........again, though, that's just me, so....

 

[Ohioguy]

The sad thing is 1 timothy 2:12 and other passages are so clear a five year old can read it and understand it.....So, when you change the word of God to fit to what you would like it to say, rather then allowing yourself to be convicted, repentant, and obedient.....you find many will follow you, Just as the angels disobeyed God, were deceived by Lucifer ,and followed him...it's called apostate, rebellion, witchcraft, ....sin.................And you have just undermined the entire authority of the word of God, and have caused many to throw it out.....Why have they thrown it out you ask......Because you have become God, your word has more authority to them now then the actually bible......

 

[SonInMe]

Deb was also a judge because no man stepped up to the plate.

Deb shamed them.

When you take the entire bible into account, it does not limit women's roles to serve but they cannot teach men ( that means they can teach other women and children ) and cannot have spiritual authority over men ( no pastoring over men....kids and other women, ok )

The ideal of women pastors is not limiting the role of women, its a recognition of how God made men and women and, I know this is radical but men and women? They are different. God made them different, not as one being superior to the other but so in marriage all aspects are present to raise a child well.

Its not rocket science but it does go against modern ideologies.

Do not covet pastorship ladies. Its not about being equal with men....you are better.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTED:

Deb was also a judge because no man stepped up to the plate.

Deb shamed them.

When you take the entire bible into account, it does not limit women's roles to serve but they cannot teach men ( that means they can teach other women and children ) and cannot have spiritual authority over men ( no pastoring over men....kids and other women, ok )

The ideal of women pastors is not limiting the role of women, its a recognition of how God made men and women and, I know this is radical but men and women? They are different. God made them different, not as one being superior to the other but so in marriage all aspects are present to raise a child well.

Its not rocket science but it does go against modern ideologies.

Do not covet pastorship ladies. Its not about being equal with men....you are better.

END QUOTATION....................

You have scripture and verse to support that "no man stepped up to the plate?"
When you take the "entire" Word of God into account, women certainly did "teach" men........
If you ever reach the "spiritual" level of Christian life.............you are gonna really, really enjoy it!

God will call who He will call to do whatever He wills them to do and man with his ignorant hangups will just have to deal with it............sigh........

 

[Agricola]

Jesus was a liberator of women, he gave women freedom from the religious law and showed this by giving women power and authority.

 

[SonInMe]

Give me one example of a woman leading anything christian.

Serving, yes.

Having spiritual gifts, yes.

No leadership. Not in the church.

 

[p_rehbein]

Give me one example of a woman leading anything christian.

Serving, yes.

Having spiritual gifts, yes.

No leadership. Not in the church.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



Just one? Are you speaking of Scripture only? Already have.........and there are others...........read for yourself........as for today, there are dozens, even hundreds in leadership positions............

 

[SonInMe]

Show me a woman who is a pastor in any christian church in the NT.

Not one.

Prophets are not pastors or teachers. Prophecy is a spiritual gift, word from God.

Serving in a church does not equate to leadership positions either as several women were applauded in scripture by Paul for their efforts...that is not a pastor nor a position of leadership.

To get any form of leadership roles for women over men in the NT is to twist and pervert scripture....or to call inerrant scriptures chauvanistic.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE:

Show me a woman who is a pastor in any christian church in the NT.

Not one.

Prophets are not pastors or teachers. Prophecy is a spiritual gift, word from God.

Serving in a church does not equate to leadership positions either as several women were applauded in scripture by Paul for their efforts...that is not a pastor nor a position of leadership.

To get any form of leadership roles for women over men in the NT is to twist and pervert scripture....or to call inerrant scriptures chauvanistic.

END QUOTE..............

Are you saying that the calling to the ministry IS NOT a Spiritual Gift?

Both Priscilla and Aquila instructed men in the Gospel/preached the Gospel, and they had a church congregation in their house.....................

And you do REALIZE that all churches today are NT Churches do you not? Goodness..............you guys........sigh........

Why don't you "redefine" all the words in the Bible to fit your particular ideology eh? Pastor/Preacher/Profit/Judge/Teacher are all positions of leadership, for they are all positions of authority within the church..........goodness........sigh.......

Your theology and ideology are so skewed that you shouldn't be counseling anyone on the twisting of Scripture........

 

[prodigal]

It contained concessions for those parishes that continue to object to the appointment of a women bishop - giving them the right to ask for a male alternative and to take disputes to an independent arbitrator.

BBC News - Church of England General Synod backs women bishops

 

[Ohioguy]

The word of God is infallible, God made no mistake in calling Paul to be an apostle...The same man who once persecuted the church...And you will never convince me that the things he wrote to the churches were of his own will, for his own will at one point was to destroy the church....When a 'denomination" begins to think they are more infallible then the word of God, you can take it to the bank that the holy spirit has left that place, and turned them over to debased minds and seared conscious ..... What is interesting about he church of England 'Anglicans' is that they are also one the denominations allowing for Homosexuals in leadership.....so, even if the woman where subject to a man, the men in the church believe it's O.K. to be Homosexual relationships....So that should reveal quit a bit if you ask me......

 

[SonInMe]

The bottom line here is this...

liberalism is satanic. Proven time and time again.

Just a fyi liberals? The bible says your heart is deceitful, when you let your heart guide your principles, instead of the Holy Spirit which NEVER goes against scripture...

you get homosexual and woman pastors.

Good job, you just perverted your churches in the false name of....compassion.

We need more men in church.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTED:
The bottom line here is this...

liberalism is satanic. Proven time and time again.

Just a fyi liberals? The bible says your heart is deceitful, when you let your heart guide your principles, instead of the Holy Spirit which NEVER goes against scripture...

you get homosexual and woman pastors.

Good job, you just perverted your churches in the false name of....compassion.

We need more men in church.
END QUOTATION.................................

Yes we do need more men in the church, but I surely pray that they are not filled with such hatred.........sigh.......