Dear Church of England......Please take not to verse 12

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[h=1]Isaiah 3 King James Version (KJV)[/h]3 For, behold, the Lord, the Lord of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread, and the whole stay of water.
2 The mighty man, and the man of war, the judge, and the prophet, and the prudent, and the ancient,
3 The captain of fifty, and the honourable man, and the counsellor, and the cunning artificer, and the eloquent orator.
4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.
5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.
6 When a man shall take hold of his brother of the house of his father, saying, Thou hast clothing, be thou our ruler, and let this ruin be under thy hand:
7 In that day shall he swear, saying, I will not be an healer; for in my house is neither bread nor clothing: make me not a ruler of the people.
8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the Lord, to provoke the eyes of his glory.
9 The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.
10 Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.
11 Woe unto the wicked! it shall be ill with him: for the reward of his hands shall be given him.
12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.
14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.
15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord God of hosts.
16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,
19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,
21 The rings, and nose jewels,
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the vails.
24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.
25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.
26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground.
 
One more thing.... Luke 6:46 'And why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?".....now asks yourself which part of the prophecies of Isaiah and Jesus are you [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]fulfilling[/FONT]......
 
Soooo..... you think that the church of England is any different from any other church nowdays?
 
Ahhhh..... Ya....it's called the Church of England for a reason....it's a state created church, created by Henry the 8th if ya do the history.... He broke from Catholicism because he didn't like what they said about him wanting to divorce his wife...... (Not that being Catholic makes you christian either).....Jesus is the head of the church, he's the one leading captivity captive....He's the first born from the dead....and HE leads his sheep, they know his voice and follow HIM, and another they will not follow.....If you would like the scripture for all this, I will post....but if you are not hearing from the holy spirit....I'd get the praying, you will give an account......we all will......No matter how we 'vote' , Jesus is a king, he didn't ask for our 'vote'...... Luke 6:46 'And why call me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?".
 
I know the history of the church of England.
However, I cannot see that they do things differently from any other church I have visited / heard of.

History is history. I am Norwegian, that does not make me a Viking (sadly ;) )
 
You make my point perfectly, Jesus because you got to a building that says they are followers of Jesus Christ, does not mean there christian...just as much as your not viking because you live in Norway.... Discernment is defined as the ability to grasp what is hard to comprehend in the Webster dictionary..... But i'm not real sure it takes much Discernment to understand these above passages.....and I didn't even use 1 timothy 2:12, which I don't believe takes any discernment, just the ability to read....
 
No doubt....what is a Pastor....Just another name for a Shepard....... Shepard are in charge of flocks.......Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David....all shepherds.....New testament talks about Jesus being the Chief Shepard....Now, if it's true that you can hear the chief shepherds voice as stated in John 10, then I'm sure Paul heard him loud and clear..... and what he wrote in Timothy was not his own words....if they were....you can through out the rest of what he wrote also......
 
why dont you just address your point in the open instead of nonsensical mumbo-jumbo about discernment as if we are supposed to understand your concepts because you posted some verses
 
This is an open forum....not sure what you mean Nautilus......Is this hard to understand....Isaiah is saying in this time that men won't won't to lead, and children and woman will, but will lead his people astray and in error....... Which is why Paul says in 1 Timothy 2 not to allow woman to have authority in over the congregation because there easily deceived....and as you read on, the Lord said he will humble the woman....Now, if you be NOT chastened, you are NOT a child of God...Hebrews 12:8..... and Hebrews 13:8, says Jesus never changes, along with many other passages in the bible on how the Lord does not change....not sure how that isn't clear.....
 
tourist said:
I am lost too as to the point of this thread.
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unfortunatley a number of posters think that everyone can read thier minds, the concept of making an openeing statement which is then elaborated is also lost on people.

Result is we often see threads like this where it just appears to rant on and on, assuming everyone knows about the subject, in this case it is about the Church of England and the recent vote to allow women to be ordained. OF course if you live in another country you proberbly have no idea this is even going on, so it is a head scratch for people without any idea what is being commented on.
 
Hence, the title...... Dear Church of England...it wasn't addressed to just anyone.....but ya figured it out though.....
 
crossnote said:
This is a News Forum...what's the 'headline'?[/QUOT

We'll, my first attempt at it, didn't understand exactly how they work...... Was just posting to address the church of England's decision to say its o.k. For woman to be bishops.....
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Dear friends,

Being myself Church of England, let me explain how we operate. Ohioguy is right in that it is an established (state) church, closely tied up with government, with the Queen serving as GOVERNOR, not the Head. The Head is Jesus. In fact, a number of the 44 diocesan bishops (each area governed by a bishop is called a diocese, of which there are 44 in the uk, including the diocese of europe), sit in the house of lords. which is one of the houses of parliament. It is led by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, with the Archbishop of York serving the dioceses of the Northern province. it is their job to act as a sort of 'conscience of the nation'. This obviously causes tensions (gay marriage a biggie, and now the bishop issue), but also has an amazing advantage for those of us who want to see Christ impact our communities, as many people in the uk see church as a cultural thing, with weddings or infant baptisms taking place in old buildings etc. Very photogenic religion is anglicanism lol.

Now, onto the fun part. Every 6 months, a council meets to discuss and vote on church matters, including the aforementioned women bishops vote, called the General Synod. This is made up of three groups, including the house of clergy and he house of laity. My Priest actually sits on this council. For a motion to be passed, i think it needs two thirds majority, or something.

The Anglican church voted on women to be ordained as priests years ago, but only to allow women bishops the other day. Of course, the scripture which goes against the ordination of women is in 1 timothy, where the apostle says it was because of Eve's sin that he won't allow female leadership or teachers. That said, how do we interpret Judges 5, where Deborah clearly becomes the Mother of Israel, following the reluctance of male leaders to take responsibility? this fits with isaiah 3, in that without the warrior in the land, things start to go wrong in society. I am undecided on how this affects God's 'ideal' plan of male authority in His church, especially when there are many men who act passively and refuse to lead. Someone has to lead, so is God looking to a generation of Deborah's? Just a question.
 
Just the marriage of Church and State seems unbiblical and off to a bad start.
Doesn't the Scriptures warn of being unequally yoked?.
From Matthew through Revelation we see the government generally hostile to the Churches.
But I suppose that's what happens when the Church models itself after Israel's Theocratic setup.
Just thoughts.
 
Deborah was not a priest. She was not even a levite, and you had to be one to be a priest.

Deb was a judge. In the discussion of women pastors to bring up Deborah is ignorance of who she was but it does define what those who support women pastors believe a pastor is...

a position of power.

See, this is all about power and women seeking it. Its not about serving God and being the servant leader of pastor. Its about...well men pastor why can't I? It is pure covetness and the main reason why God told wives to...submit. Why God says clearly in 1 Tim 2:12 women should not teach or have spiritual authority over men. Try reading the bible for what it says, not what someone votes in.

How about basing your doctrines and what runs your church on the freaking bible, not some popular vote.
 
Ohioguy said:
This is an open forum....not sure what you mean Nautilus......Is this hard to understand....Isaiah is saying in this time that men won't won't to lead, and children and woman will, but will lead his people astray and in error....... Which is why Paul says in 1 Timothy 2 not to allow woman to have authority in over the congregation because there easily deceived....and as you read on, the Lord said he will humble the woman....Now, if you be NOT chastened, you are NOT a child of God...Hebrews 12:8..... and Hebrews 13:8, says Jesus never changes, along with many other passages in the bible on how the Lord does not change....not sure how that isn't clear.....
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Im starting to think your just sexist since this is in no way news worthy just seems like your personal rant on women
 
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