ONCE saved always saved!.

[SeaBass]

Faith is contrasted as the pole apart from works. It is rest, as Hebrews describes it. We must rest from our works and trust the Savior.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, . . . not of works.

But to Him who does not work, but believes . . . His faith is counted for righteousness.



So since your are not righteous, but do evil, what chance do you have?

All your righteousnesses are as filthy rags!



So what are you ever going to do, since you are disobedient?



"For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes."

The only way to receive a declaration of righteousness from the Lord is to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior (not "chance-giver").

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

1 Thess 1:3 "work of faith"
Gal 5:6 "faith which worketh by love"
Mk 2:1-5 Jesus "saw thier faith" What Jesus saw that is called 'fiath' is the works those men were doing


Instead of pulling Isa 64:6 out of context and twisting it, people need to look at verse 5 that says "Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness,those that remember thee in thy ways:"

Again, if man's obedience to God is filthy rags, then that means the following verses should read:

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he "filthy rags" by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that have "filthy rags"
2 Thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that have no "filthy rags"


God is not looking for perfect obedience/sinless perfection, but looking for a faithful obedience and those that are faithful in thier walking inthe light then Christ's blood will cleanse away all sins, 1 Jn 1:7 SO those that do no works are the disobedient ones, unrighteous ones and remain in that state until they do obey/do God's righteousness.

AS Paul says in Rom 6:16 "obedience unto righteousness" No obedience = not righteous.

 

[ThePottersClay]

I'm concerned by how the teaching of "Once saved always saved" can so easily be the cause that Christians have lost the reverence and fear of God - if we have this outlook on the future and our lives, we simply exist on the gravy train to heaven.

I think its important to understand what it means to be lost and what it means to be saved.

Lost - Luke 19:10 says Jesus came to seek and save those who are LOST. Essentially we were once lost and guilty sinners under the wrath of God, this was our relationship to sin, and any lack of conformity to the Character and will of God. Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners?

Our sinful nature was inherited from Adam (Rom 5:12) and the penalty of our sin is death, physical, spiritual and eternal.

Scripture describes our condition before believing in Christ as being under the Wrath of God.

Saved - Salvation is from the Lord Johan 2:9. We are saved from a lost condition when our sins are forgiven and we believe in Jesus Christ. Being saved includes, regeneration which is a work by the Holy Spirit, Justification by which God declares the believer righteous since clothed by the righteousness of Christ. Freed, from domain and dominion of sin, Given as a Gift, Membership.

So since we have been saved from being lost, can we lose this?

John 10:28 says that he gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, neither shall anyone snatch them out of His hand.

There are many more verses that supports the fact that ONCE saved you are ALWAYS saved. So since this is fact based on scripture I think we need to redirect the question.

If you are lost after being "saved", were you saved at all in the first place?

If you had to fill out one of those, YES-NO-MAYBE questionnaires, it might give you an indication... but only if you are truthful with your answers, taking into consideration the last question... Rev 3:15-16 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

 

[SeaBass]

A work done to earn or gain or receive something is a work of merit.

Stop justifying your works. And start praising the work of God.

I created the thread in the link below to expose this straw man.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html

 

[Apostol2013]

How about the verses be furnished unto all good works -paul of tarsus unless your works surpass those of the pharisees you will never see the kingdom -Jesus christ , havent you heard ole man faith without works is dead -James

 

[newbirth]

Faith is contrasted as the pole apart from works. It is rest, as Hebrews describes it. We must rest from our works and trust the Savior.

The works spoken of in Hebrews is works of the Law

For by grace you have been saved through faith, . . . not of works.

The works in Eph Paul is telling the gentiles that salvation is not of works as the Jews had in times past. But in faith...[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

But to Him who does not work, but believes . . . His faith is counted for righteousness.

Again the scripture shows the contrast is between works of the law and faith...[SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

So since your are not righteous, but do evil, what chance do you have?

All your righteousnesses are as filthy rags!

Why do you keep trying to decieve the children of God?
1 John 2:29

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So what are you ever going to do, since you are disobedient?

"For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes."

The only way to receive a declaration of righteousness from the Lord is to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior (not "chance-giver").

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Again this is speaking to those who are trying to follow the Mosaic Law

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

It is clear you are trying to confuse people into believing your doctrine.
What exactly are you teaching God's people?
Matthew 28:19-20
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[wgeurts]

"observe" nuff said

 

[newbirth]

"observe" nuff said

you can lead the horse to the water but........ Do you believe God wants you to just watch his commands? This is no different from the one who says all he has to do is believe...When he is hungry he must believe his belly is full.
Leviticus 19:37
Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the Lord.

 

[Atwood]

Originally Posted by Atwood

Faith is contrasted as the pole apart from works. It is rest, as Hebrews describes it. We must rest from our works and trust the Savior.


The works spoken of in Hebrews is works of the Law

No, it is works in general; in particular we must rest from trying to establish our own righteousness.
The principle is the same regardless if the commandments are of Moses, of the Lord Jesus on earth, or in the epistles. The recommended rest goes back to God at creation; & God did not rest from the Mosaic law, but stopped activity. No human activities/works can save. But coming up against God's demands should drive us to Christ to trust Him as Savior. Rest in the Savior; cease any attempt to work your way to salvation.


For by grace you have been saved through faith, . . . not of works.


The works in Eph Paul is telling the gentiles that salvation is not of works as the Jews had in times past. But in faith...[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What the Lord is telling us in Eph 2 is that anyone who is saved is saved because of his faith, not because of his works, whatever those works may be, for if a man were saved by works, he would have something to boast about, whether the works were based on Moses or gentile morality.



But to Him who does not work, but believes . . . His faith is counted for righteousness.


Again the scripture shows the contrast is between works of the law and faith...[SUP]16[/SUP]Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

In the case of Abe there was no Law of Moses; so when it says, "to him who does not work," the work is not specifically the commandments of Moses, who was not yet born.

But why do you go on about this? NewB, haven't you yet gotten it thru your skull that the Lord Jesus is the Savior, not you or I ?


So since your are not righteous, but do evil, what chance do you have?

All your righteousnesses are as filthy rags!


Why do you keep trying to decieve the children of God?
1 John 2:29

If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

So you claim you are righteous like the Pharisee, instead of taking the position of the Publican? God be merciful to me a sinner? You can't admit that you are such a miserable sinner that you must be saved by God's grace?



So what are you ever going to do, since you are disobedient?

"For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes."

The only way to receive a declaration of righteousness from the Lord is to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior (not "chance-giver").

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.



Again this is speaking to those who are trying to follow the Mosaic Law

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The error of the legalist is trying to establish his own righteousness, whether it be by Moses or by any standard of ethics. When you take that self-righteous road, you seek to establish your own righteousness and not not subject yourself to God's righteousness. The point is not that it is proper to establish your own righteousness, as long as you don't do it by Moses. Trying to establish your own righteousness for salvation is an error of pride that leads to the Lake of Fire.

What exactly are you teaching God's people?

Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith,
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation,
Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
Where your fathers tried me by proving me,
And saw my works forty years.
Wherefore I was displeased with this generation,
And said, They do always err in their heart:
But they did not know my ways;
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest.


Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, . . .
\
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.


Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said,
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; and in this place again,
They shall not enter into my rest.
. . .
To-day, saying in David so long a time afterward (even as hath been said before),
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts.


For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.

For God so loved the World that He gave Him only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus for He shall save His people from their sin.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

If any reading this has discounted the Lord Jesus to a mere chance-giver, let this be the hour in which you repent, & start trusting Him as your only & sufficient Savior.

 

[Atwood]

Leviticus 19:37
Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the Lord.

So what will you do since you never have observed all God's statutes, do not do so now, and never will in this life? Will you invest in asbestos underwear? Or will you trust the Lord Jesus to do the Saving? There isn't room in this universe for 2 Saviors, yourself & the Lord. He will not tolerate it.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Kerry]

wow, just wow, can I say it again "wow". Jesus is not the chance giver. We are. If we call on His name we shall be saved. If we leave and return to our sin it is not God who failed it us who failed. The blinded eye of doctrine taught from a child cannot see truth. Much like a Muslim who has been taught Islam from his mothers knee will refuse the cross no matter what.

You cannot see that your doctrine is a gamble. Maybe He will save you and maybe He won't. Will just have to wait and see and if you sin or fail, then you weren't saved. Try again next time.

 

[Atwood]

How about the verses be furnished unto all good works -paul of tarsus unless your works [sic!] surpass those [sic!] of the pharisees you will never see the kingdom -Jesus christ , havent you heard ole man faith without works is dead -James

Apostol, kindly look up the verse you allude to & get it right, on the Pharisees.

You have to distinguish works before salvation as an impossible way to get saved, with works after salvation made possible by a man being recreated to be able to do good works. (Eph2)

What is amazing is how self-righteous sinners can go on about works that they don't have and have no hope of every producing unless they submit to "by grace through faith" and let the Lord Jesus transform them from sinner to child of God.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

There isn't room in this universe for 2 Saviors.

 

[Atwood]

wow, just wow, can I say it again "wow". Jesus is not the chance giver. We are. Will just have to wait and see and if you sin or fail, then you weren't saved. Try again next time.

The natural man is not the giver of anything but sin. There is none who does righteousness, no not one.

We just have to trust the Savior Who is described this way:

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Now if you have reduced the SAvior to a chance-giver, or somehow idolatrously dreamed that you yourself were your own savior, repent of this, and trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior.

(There is not room in the universe for 2 Saviors -- you will be saved as the savee, or you will not have eternal life.)

 

[Atwood]

Reign In the Horses Long Enough to Get Real on OSS

OSS = once saved, saved! This is the remarkable idea that once you are saved, well then you ARE saved!

Let's stop horsing around on this & that long enough to focus on the promises of God. He promises eternal security to the believer:

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

He Who began a good work in you will complete it.

 

[konroh]

Let's understand God's word properly. Absolutely none of these questions indicate past tense salvation-justification. They do not fall under the category of "Do you believe in Jesus for eternal life?" These fall under the category of "Are you in fellowship with Jesus, are you following Him, are you pleasing God?" This is a sanctification category. These are two completely different questions.

Honestly, if Jesus asks me why I should go to heaven and I respond, "I was obedient to God's word, I was pure, I maintained a clear conscience," then this is a works-salvation answer. This is no different from every other religion that tries to work its way to God. It's impossible.

We will of course be rewarded for following all of the above, this is our sanctification-salvation, blessing now and reward in heaven. But this is not the answer to the question, "What must I do to be saved?" That answer is simply, "Believe."

 

[wgeurts]

1 John 1:8-10 ESV
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

No one has no sin. Therfor no one can enter heaven by works, as breaking one of the laws is the same as breaking all of them and all sin is payed with death. How could God let sinful beings into his domain, he is perfect and such an action would be tolerating sin, an imperfection. No, just as one man cursed all man to sin and sentenced us all to death, one man can do the reverse and save us from it.

Thou shalt call his name Jesus, as he will save us from our sins.

 

[SeaBass]

1 John 1:8-10 ESV
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

No one has no sin. Therfor no one can enter heaven by works, as breaking one of the laws is the same as breaking all of them and all sin is payed with death. How could God let sinful beings into his domain, he is perfect and such an action would be tolerating sin, an imperfection. No, just as one man cursed all man to sin and sentenced us all to death, one man can do the reverse and save us from it.

Thou shalt call his name Jesus, as he will save us from our sins.

Eph 1:4 says Christian are to be "holy and without blame" and 2 Pet 3:14 says Christians are to be "without spot and blameless".

As you point out, Christians do sin, so how can Christians who sin ever be spotless and blameless?

1 Jn 1:7 (which you did not quote above) says But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Both verbs "walk" and "cleanseth" are in the Greek present tense denoting a sustained, ongoing action. So long as the Christian continues to walk in the light, then Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins and that continued washing away of all sins leaves the Christian without spot and blame.

A Christian choose to walk in the light so he can choose to quit walking in the light and if he quits walking in the light then Christ's blood quits washing away all sins and he then has spot and blame and therefore lost.

 

[SeaBass]

Re: Reign In the Horses Long Enough to Get Real on OSS

OSS = once saved, saved! This is the remarkable idea that once you are saved, well then you ARE saved!

Let's stop horsing around on this & that long enough to focus on the promises of God. He promises eternal security to the believer:

Jehovah redeemeth the soul of his servants;
And none of them that take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

He Who began a good work in you will complete it.

I see that you post many verses and then ASSUME eternal security into them. If you can ASSUME eternal security in those verses above that you posted, then ANYONE can ASSUME ANYTHING into ANY verse they care to.

Phil 1:5 those Philippians Christians had remained faithful in the gospel from the "first day until now". So because of their faithfulness to the gospel, God would be faithful to continue a good work in them.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

THis verse is made CONDITIONAL upon one overcoming. If one does not overcome his name will be blotted out and his name NOT confessed before God.

 

[newbirth]

Let's understand God's word properly. Absolutely none of these questions indicate past tense salvation-justification. They do not fall under the category of "Do you believe in Jesus for eternal life?" These fall under the category of "Are you in fellowship with Jesus, are you following Him, are you pleasing God?" This is a sanctification category. These are two completely different questions.

Honestly, if Jesus asks me why I should go to heaven and I respond, "I was obedient to God's word, I was pure, I maintained a clear conscience," then this is a works-salvation answer. This is no different from every other religion that tries to work its way to God. It's impossible.

We will of course be rewarded for following all of the above, this is our sanctification-salvation, blessing now and reward in heaven. But this is not the answer to the question, "What must I do to be saved?" That answer is simply, "Believe."

Jesus will be separating sheep from goats, not asking you why you should go to heaven....
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
because you believe but you have done nothing.......simply believe.....

 

[newbirth]

So what will you do since you never have observed all God's statutes, do not do so now, and never will in this life? Will you invest in asbestos underwear? Or will you trust the Lord Jesus to do the Saving? There isn't room in this universe for 2 Saviors, yourself & the Lord. He will not tolerate it.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

this was in response to one who seem to imply observe means to just look at same thinking like you who think believe in the Lord is just in your mind. Do you think also that it means just watch?
Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Skinski7]

Are we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because we are sinners?

Our sinful nature was inherited from Adam (Rom 5:12) and the penalty of our sin is death, physical, spiritual and eternal.

Romans 5:12 actually states...

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Take note that it does not say that any human being inherited a "sinful nature" from Adam. It is people who state that and then reference that verse.

It was sin that entered the world by one man and then death entered the world because of that sin, which is a "type." Death was passed onto all men in the same manner because all men have sinned. Paul does not say anything about a "sinful nature" being passed down, theologians are the ones who say that.

Because you believe that a sinful nature was passed down you put the blame for sin on the natural human nature as opposed to the exercise of free agency. Thus you imply that "we sin because we are sinners." In this doctrine the blame for sin is a "birth state" as opposed to a choice.

This doctrine of inherited moral depravity serves to twist what is really taught in the Bible completely upside down to such a scale that people, ignorantly, argue in favour of ongoing sin in salvation. Under this delusion is is almost impossible to perceive that sin is rooted in the free act of the will and that the human heart can be corrupted by previous choices made. Human beings becomes sinners because they choose the path of least resistance and quench the light of God, in other words they violate their conscience willfully, most often to gratify natural fleshly desire.

It is through the violation of the conscience that one corrupts themselves and falls under condemnation. Human beings are not born condemned. Yes we are born subject to the curse and therefore physical death but we are not born subject to condemnation.

When an individual sins they die spiritually in the sense that they cut themselves off from fellowship with God because God cannot abide with iniquity (this is the death sin brings, this is sins wages). In this state bondage grows as people continue to sin and their brains adapt and becomes patterned upon self gratification. Thus the bondage of sin is extreme.