I Don't Want Another Divorce

[sunburn]

The OP…you do need to take into consideration that prayer is your only remedy at the moment…Only God sees what is happening within closed doors.
I will not bother too much with the counselling…it only works if two people are willing to work.

Coming on a board will help you vent but it is useless…
From my experience, I know it is best to let your heart out to God and be honest about is really triggering this whole mess. and you'll have the answer you need.
You do need to let God take control and and bring justice between you and your husband.

 

[dabodab]

The OP…you do need to take into consideration that prayer is your only remedy at the moment…Only God sees what is happening within closed doors.

AMEN, Sister.

 

[Sirk]

http://www.azgrowth.com/4Horsemen.pdf

 

[Ugly]

From a purely psychological standpoint there is no such thing as a plain old vanilla story. Wouldn't that just consist of boring old facts? The real agenda of coming here and telling her story is simply to tug at the heart strings of gullible people such as yourself. In other words...there is something in it for her. She did a pretty good job of ginning up the details without being specific.....He is abusive...I am doing my best. You get the picture.

She does about a D- job of covering up the fact that she speaks in absolutes ie; black and white thinking.....by generically stating "I am not perfect....I have my own faults" BUT....he is abusive and demeaning. Okay...thats all well and good but there is no meat on the bones of either one of these statements.....plus, it is serious business labeling someone abusive....dare I say...bearing false witness.

At a minimum, your assumption about Sandjsmama and myself is as equally as flawed as mine is about you and her.....however....based on the second paragraph I typed....there is always two sides to every story and so far.....this story is lacking any real humility and is seeking an audience of in agreement head shaker ameners like yourself.

Give us some facts here Sands......otherwise this is just a story about two chumps who can't get along.

People like cinder exist to balance out the calloused, demeaning, critical, accusing douche bags that like to blame victims, like you do.
If you're married i pity your wife.

 

[sunburn]

I was almost trying to give some thoughts to what Sirk was trying to say but when he finished saying " Give us some facts, Sands etc…, I knew he was just simply pre-conditionned to downplay whatever Sand had to say.
She has been given facts about the state of the relationship for the beginning..I am not sure what facts Sirk wants. That she shows marks of beatings, and scars? The man is not here to say anything in his defence, that's fair argument, but we all know Men don't like expand on how they feel, let alone be exposed for what they might be doing for all to see if they are true.
I don't want to say it , Sirk, but you might be giving a hard time to your own wife and expect her to give some "facts" before questioning your own attitude?
I am wondering.


This woman wouldn't come to an anonymous forum just for the simple pleasure of bashing her husband.
Common sense. There is something going on.

 

[ChristianUk13]

As an example...always and never declarations are rarely true and are usually exaggerations. The truth is....if you talk to your husband in this fashion...you have poor communication skills. As a general rule of thumb....conflicts between people are generally.... 80% each persons fault. I'm sorry if you think I'm picking on you....I am not.....unlike others....I am challenging YOU. Stop examining your husband and examine yourself.

Sirk, sandjsmama has humbled herself to be in this position, that is telling use her problems. Do you not see that this is a woman in such a terrible place. Do you have to be so condescending. I wondered also about the relationship that her son had with her husband. She then explained, to you, that he is a good albeit normal team with a place in church authority, ie youth leader. So why do you assume the problems owe to her lack of communication. Perhaps you need to read through her initial post and stop jumping on the 'don't slate the husband' band-wagon, accepting that her husband is being very unreasonable, terrible in fact, which is making her life a misery. This is not a place for you to score points as though you were representing husbands as a lawyer. Verbal abuse does go on - let's get real - let's come out of this religious bubble. If you cannot keep up with the points that are being discussed I suggest you instead let the grown-ups chat.

 

[ChristianUk13]

weheghgijhfiuejri4uth5iuth4iur3hiur4hru

 

[ChristianUk13]

From a purely psychological standpoint there is no such thing as a plain old vanilla story. Wouldn't that just consist of boring old facts? The real agenda of coming here and telling her story is simply to tug at the heart strings of gullible people such as yourself. In other words...there is something in it for her. She did a pretty good job of ginning up the details without being specific.....He is abusive...I am doing my best. You get the picture.

She does about a D- job of covering up the fact that she speaks in absolutes ie; black and white thinking.....by generically stating "I am not perfect....I have my own faults" BUT....he is abusive and demeaning. Okay...thats all well and good but there is no meat on the bones of either one of these statements.....plus, it is serious business labeling someone abusive....dare I say...bearing false witness.

At a minimum, your assumption about Sandjsmama and myself is as equally as flawed as mine is about you and her.....however....based on the second paragraph I typed....there is always two sides to every story and so far.....this story is lacking any real humility and is seeking an audience of in agreement head shaker ameners like yourself.

Give us some facts here Sands......otherwise this is just a story about two chumps who can't get along.

You mention 'psychologically', but are you in fact a psychologist? Are your comments related to your own opinions as a qualified psychologist, or it is merely pseudo psychology, whereby the latter is someone who has never before studied psychology from a textbook or relevant journal but in fact still holds an arbitrary opinion in relation to a particular psychological standpoint?

 

[Sirk]

You mention 'psychologically', but are you in fact a psychologist? Are your comments related to your own opinions as a qualified psychologist, or it is merely pseudo psychology, whereby the latter is someone who has never before studied psychology from a textbook or relevant journal but in fact still holds an arbitrary opinion in relation to a particular psychological standpoint?

Does a person have to be a psychologist to understand human nature? Probably about as much as one has to be an ordained Catholic priest to interpret scripture. Not sure if you noticed the exchange between Sands and me...ya the one where I apologized to her. FYI...Sands came here for a biblical perspective and what she got from a few on here (one of which called me a douchebag and said that they felt sorry for my wife) is childish handwringing male bashing so typical of our gutless society these days. I thought about reporting "ugly" for getting personal and using such an "abusive" descriptor of me, but instead I'll just let the irony of Uglies cognitive dissonance just be what it is.

Furthermore, Sands came here claiming to be a Christian.....so deep down she was asking to hear the clanking sound and see the sparks fly of ironing sharpening iron.... instead of the shallow misguided "counseling" she received from some on this site enabling her...even encourage her....to be a victim. Shame on you.

 

[Sirk]

If you cannot keep up with the points that are being discussed I suggest you instead let the grown-ups chat.

Haha...this one is sort of funny. I think there are other knitting circle forums out there where all the ladies will be in perfect agreement with all that you say, and take what you say exactly at face value regarding your interpersonal conflicts... so that you all can keep spinning round and round in your make believe fantasy land that you are perfect and the other person is not. Oh well...sites like this will always have the misguided ones trying to be the 'good' guy...or gal. I guess I am here....to balance out the nonsense.

 

[InHisArms247]

Hi! I have a christian book to recommend. It was life changing for me. It's called "The emotionally destructive marriage" by Leslie Vernick. I separated from my second husband 6 months ago as a last resort. We were together 16 1/2 years. After years of him cheating (emotional and physical affairs) pathologically lying, treating my children badly anytime I was not home (and I became like a prisoner in my own home staying home to protect them from his psychological abuse). He broke our belongings for years and lied about it (put suspicion on the children or said I don't know what happened) deleted all our family photos and videos on the computer of when my children were young (when he was angry) invented a false past, had a seriously warped pornography addiction (looking up teenage girls while my girls were teens and increasingly depraved terms) and eventually not feeding me in the hospital for days after a major surgery and allowing the staff to believe I was eating (while he ate all the food himself and lied about it) confessing much later that it was so he could (in his words) control me. I could go on with many more details but I don't have to. I eventually saw him for what he was...It was a very frightening and very painful decision to tell him to leave and not one I took lightly before The Lord. I encourage you to read the book I mentioned and go through a Godly process of honestly accessing your marriage and what to do in your specific situation, as every situation is different. If you don't have access to this book let me know and I'll send it to you. I am praying for you! I want you to know that you are not alone! Message me anytime if you want to talk

 

[ChristianUk13]

Well I'm funny about really knowing a thing, and not just supposing it. I work in the legal field. <smile>

Ok, a good lawyer goes on the evidence what he or she has. The reasonable lawyer knows how to determine issues in view of proportionality and what are superficial inferences. You may know law but do you know psychology. Do you even read legal journals, for instance Grams, M. (2004) relating to children, guardian ad litems, abusive fathers, I put it to you, do you really know a thing or two? Unless you know psychology I don't care if you're the best lawyer in the world, you will not understand what goes on in the mind of dangerous men. Are you also aware of the inter state precedents that manipulative/ dangerous alienated husbands use (even though the ratio is for women to escape dangerous partners) to move their son or daughter to a different state? How about emotional problems, if a woman has emotional issues (you know what some of us would call post trauma and likely anxiety) would this mean that the emotionality extends to the children? No, but the US Court judges seem to think so.

 

[blue_ladybug]

weheghgijhfiuejri4uth5iuth4iur3hiur4hru

Speaking in some strange alien code now, are ya? LOL.

 

[ChristianUk13]

Haha Blue, I was applying to the wrong post and it wouldn't let me cancel it. So i just typed random letters which it accepted. So there ya go lol

 

[ChristianUk13]

Does a person have to be a psychologist to understand human nature? Probably about as much as one has to be an ordained Catholic priest to interpret scripture......

Psychology means the study (logos) of the mind (psyche) and human behaviour. As to your question, well one has to have an idea of the psychological principles in terms of the cause and effect relationship on others. There are several personalities including at one end of the spectrum, passive character, whereas at the other end there are its polar opposites, ie aggression/ manipulation/ control. It really is not just a case of sin as if that were the case there would be no tests of proportionality which would make transparency and accountability but redundant.

Sands.....came here for a biblical perspective......irony of Uglies cognitive dissonance just be what it is..

A biblical perspective is one thing but framing it from pseudo psychologist perspective is quite something else. A person may be well versed in biblical principles from 2000 or 6000 years ago but it would be erroneous to apply those scriptures today to modern situations without also accounting for those modern difference in terms of human value. Cognitive dissonance is defined as inconsistency. I will leave you to judge others as you seem well equipped for that task, you hang your self without any help from me, so to speak.

Furthermore, Sands came here claiming to be a Christian.....so deep down she was asking to hear the clanking sound and see the sparks fly of ironing sharpening iron.... instead of the shallow misguided "counseling" she received from some on this site enabling her...even encourage her....to be a victim. Shame on you.

Claiming to be a Christian now, are you the arbiter of what a Christian is, are you God Himself? Go a way and research the term subjectivity. I'll count you to see how long you take, but start now, ok, good, well done! Counselling ah there is another technical term. How do YOU define 'misguided' in view of counselling? Encouraging Sands to be a victim. Do you realise how you even sound. This lady came on here looking for guidance and support but was not expecting to encounter Neanderthal commentary from you.

If you step outside the bubble called life you would do well to realise that serious abuse does go on. This is not some superficial witch-hunt, or some feminine stance, against 'husbands' united. If you were adept enough, I'd direct you to some legal research, for instance Grams, M. (2004) relating to children, guardian ad litems, abusive fathers, which indicates good evidence that lots of men possess dangerous minds, manipulate children for their own selfish gain, notwithstanding they do not want custody in any event, they just don't the moms to have them either.

 

[Sirk]

Psychology means the study (logos) of the mind (psyche) and human behaviour. As to your question, well one has to have an idea of the psychological principles in terms of the cause and effect relationship on others. There are several personalities including at one end of the spectrum, passive character, whereas at the other end there are its polar opposites, ie aggression/ manipulation/ control. It really is not just a case of sin as if that were the case there would be no tests of proportionality which would make transparency and accountability but redundant.

Well I'm glad you cleared up for me what psychology consists of. Of course the opposite ends of the spectrum concerning personality types and their accompanying outward attributes can be sin. Are you saying that the use of words for the purpose of manipulation are less sinful than not using any words for the purpose of manipulation? If you are, then in all your education you fail to grasp the fact that much of human communication is through body language facial expression and tone of voice.

A biblical perspective is one thing but framing it from pseudo psychologist perspective is quite something else. A person may be well versed in biblical principles from 2000 or 6000 years ago but it would be erroneous to apply those scriptures today to modern situations without also accounting for those modern difference in terms of human value. Cognitive dissonance is defined as inconsistency. I will leave you to judge others as you seem well equipped for that task, you hang your self without any help from me, so to speak.

I guess since the bible is 2000+ years old it's principles and their applications have changed in regards to modern times? The cognitive dissonance I alluded to in this instance was the accusation of being abusive by using abusive language. Maybe it was more ironic but in any case I was not offended as I have been called worse.

Claiming to be a Christian now, are you the arbiter of what a Christian is, are you God Himself? Go a way and research the term subjectivity. I'll count you to see how long you take, but start now, ok, good, well done! Counselling ah there is another technical term. How do YOU define 'misguided' in view of counselling? Encouraging Sands to be a victim. Do you realise how you even sound. This lady came on here looking for guidance and support but was not expecting to encounter Neanderthal commentary from you.

This is where you really are jumping the shark. She claimed to be a Christian so I assumed she was and would be capable of self reflection...as a person who says they are, would be not only capable but willing to employ a little introspection as to their role in their current circumstance. Jumping on the assume her version of events are the gospel bandwagon does her no good. Furthermore, she gave no indication she was in any physical danger. If she had, my response would have been much different.

If you step outside the bubble called life you would do well to realise that serious abuse does go on. This is not some superficial witch-hunt, or some feminine stance, against 'husbands' united. If you were adept enough, I'd direct you to some legal research, for instance Grams, M. (2004) relating to children, guardian ad litems, abusive fathers, which indicates good evidence that lots of men possess dangerous minds, manipulate children for their own selfish gain, notwithstanding they do not want custody in any event, they just don't the moms to have them either.

As to stepping outside of the bubble, I have been on the receiving end of horrible narcissistic abuse, parental alienation and a whole litany of hateful hurtful behavior from my ex spouse...not to mention an endless divorce proceeding wrought with fighting for every solitary inch for my son and all it's countless door slams in my face.
In spite of the attempts to define ME as the abuser, I willingly participated in countless hours of counselor shopping, not to mention willingly participating in anger management classes with men who were not only court ordered to be there but had done and said unbelievably violent things to their partners and humbly participated as though I was one of them. Because I viewed the the abuse I had done to my ex (which btw consisted asking her why she had a black cloud over her head all of the time as well as my veiled comments about her mental health which in reality were not untruthful but nonetheless hurtful). I have owned my behavior and along the way through not only parenting classes, individual counseling, psych tests and the whole gammit etc etc not to mention my subsequent remarriage and the autistic 13 year and 10 year old stepchildren who were devastated by a father who has abandoned them and who call me dad and love me as their dad and leader as well as the time I have spent with them and their counselors....I could keep going on and on but suffice it to say, I understand a lot more about human nature as well as second marriages with all it's accompanying issues than you give me credit for....and probably more than your textbooks will ever teach you. If you wanna hate me and call me an unthoughtful Neanderthal and judge me while calling me judgmental....have at it....but you and your wounded pride got it all wrong.

 

[secularhermit]

I will be praying for you OP…
seeing a second marriage fall apart is a hard blow.
I am sure you are trying everything to make this work and your husband knows that you would be devastated if you were to divorce the second time. Yet does nothing.

Another perfect example of "christian" men who entices women in the church for marriage only to manipulate and abuse.

I wish there were an accurate account on both genders who do the same... I´m sure there are men who would remorse their "love" story, too.

 

[ChristianUk13]

Well I'm glad you cleared up for me what psychology consists of. Of course the opposite ends of the spectrum concerning personality types and their accompanying outward attributes can be sin. Are you saying that the use of words for the purpose of manipulation are less sinful than not using any words for the purpose of manipulation? If you are, then in all your education you fail to grasp the fact that much of human communication is through body language facial expression and tone of voice.




I guess since the bible is 2000+ years old it's principles and their applications have changed in regards to modern times? The cognitive dissonance I alluded to in this instance was the accusation of being abusive by using abusive language. Maybe it was more ironic but in any case I was not offended as I have been called worse.



This is where you really are jumping the shark. She claimed to be a Christian so I assumed she was and would be capable of self reflection...as a person who says they are, would be not only capable but willing to employ a little introspection as to their role in their current circumstance. Jumping on the assume her version of events are the gospel bandwagon does her no good. Furthermore, she gave no indication she was in any physical danger. If she had, my response would have been much different.



As to stepping outside of the bubble, I have been on the receiving end of horrible narcissistic abuse, parental alienation and a whole litany of hateful hurtful behavior from my ex spouse...not to mention an endless divorce proceeding wrought with fighting for every solitary inch for my son and all it's countless door slams in my face.
In spite of the attempts to define ME as the abuser, I willingly participated in countless hours of counselor shopping, not to mention willingly participating in anger management classes with men who were not only court ordered to be there but had done and said unbelievably violent things to their partners and humbly participated as though I was one of them. Because I viewed the the abuse I had done to my ex (which btw consisted asking her why she had a black cloud over her head all of the time as well as my veiled comments about her mental health which in reality were not untruthful but nonetheless hurtful). I have owned my behavior and along the way through not only parenting classes, individual counseling, psych tests and the whole gammit etc etc not to mention my subsequent remarriage and the autistic 13 year and 10 year old stepchildren who were devastated by a father who has abandoned them and who call me dad and love me as their dad and leader as well as the time I have spent with them and their counselors....I could keep going on and on but suffice it to say, I understand a lot more about human nature as well as second marriages with all it's accompanying issues than you give me credit for....and probably more than your textbooks will ever teach you. If you wanna hate me and call me an unthoughtful Neanderthal and judge me while calling me judgmental....have at it....but you and your wounded pride got it all wrong.

Now this better, a humble you. I never said you were a Neanderthal, the words I used were 'Neanderthal commentary.' I am sorry you have had your personal struggles. But if you'd have gave your own personal account and another tried to say, 'but this is only one side am hearing from you' then you too wouldn't feel too great. I don't hate you and never said I did but given your own struggles, try to see it from Sandy's shoes too rather than critique her account. The US court system from what am aware of is simply dreadful although the UK's is not much better. We should encourage one another, not question what they say. I see where you were coming from now, but you never explained you have personal experience which is why you came across as harsh. Don't make assumptions just because Sandy may have omitted some things, it is what is alluded to not what it literally expressed. I am glad that you're now in a better relationship too.

 

[Sirk]

Now this better, a humble you. I never said you were a Neanderthal, the words I used were 'Neanderthal commentary.' I am sorry you have had your personal struggles. But if you'd have gave your own personal account and another tried to say, 'but this is only one side am hearing from you' then you too wouldn't feel too great. I don't hate you and never said I did but given your own struggles, try to see it from Sandy's shoes too rather than critique her account. The US court system from what am aware of is simply dreadful although the UK's is not much better. We should encourage one another, not question what they say. I see where you were coming from now, but you never explained you have personal experience which is why you came across as harsh. Don't make assumptions just because Sandy may have omitted some things, it is what is alluded to not what it literally expressed. I am glad that you're now in a better relationship too.

A friend of mine told me the other day that when Ben Franklin was a young man somebody said to him....you are the most intelligent man in the colonies, but if you don't change your delivery, no one will listen to you".

I'll admit that my delivery can be on the pointed side at times and no I do not consider myself the most intelligent, but it is always with the intent of searching for the deeper
nugget at the heart of issues.

Probably one of the hardest verses to apply in life IMO is.... "do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than you consider yourself."

I interpret it as, you already know your perspective, set it aside for a minute and think about the others perspective more than you are thinking of your own.....and that is the outcome I was hoping for with this nice young lady who is in a really, really really tough spot.

Besides, in light of that...who gives a crap about how much of a dink her hubby wants to be, but how this sweet lady will use this circumstance to grow a more and more sweet countenance as she walks closely with Jesus.

 

[Sirk]

Now this better, a humble you. I never said you were a Neanderthal, the words I used were 'Neanderthal commentary.' I am sorry you have had your personal struggles. But if you'd have gave your own personal account and another tried to say, 'but this is only one side am hearing from you' then you too wouldn't feel too great. I don't hate you and never said I did but given your own struggles, try to see it from Sandy's shoes too rather than critique her account. The US court system from what am aware of is simply dreadful although the UK's is not much better. We should encourage one another, not question what they say. I see where you were coming from now, but you never explained you have personal experience which is why you came across as harsh. Don't make assumptions just because Sandy may have omitted some things, it is what is alluded to not what it literally expressed. I am glad that you're now in a better relationship too.

I simply wanted to help Sandi realize that women communicate things to men in the subtlest of ways.....and that she could be triggering something deep in him by a look or a tone and not even know what it is. It's really too bad the guy won't suck it up, go to counseling and dig deep into his own soul and be a leader but by the same token, Sandi could be sabotaging him and not know it. Marriages are complicated messy arrangements. Especially between people wounded by divorce after divorce. No matter if one, both or non of the above have religion.