Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[StoneThrower]

The bottom line is everyone needs to live and let live and truthfully, nobody is better than anybody. .

No one is any better than anyone else, but some are better off with regards to where the will spend eternity.

So would you warn a blind man that is getting ready to step off the curb in front of a semi, or would you just say live and let live.

Spurgen said something to effect, if men must persist in going to hell, then let them go with us clutching at their ankles to stop them. He also said “Every Christian is either a missionary or an impostor" CH Spurgeon

Is anyone so cold as to let someone go to hell without begging and pleading with them?

 

[kennethcadwell]

No one is any better than anyone else, but some are better off with regards to where the will spend eternity.

So would you warn a blind man that is getting ready to step off the curb in front of a semi, or would you just say live and let live.

Spurgen said something to effect, if men must persist in going to hell, then let them go with us clutching at their ankles to stop them. He also said “Every Christian is either a missionary or an impostor" CH Spurgeon

Is anyone so cold as to let someone go to hell without begging and pleading with them?

I see where you are going which is a way I agree with as well. Some debate with me on this, but this way of thinking is why I am against the death penalty ( capital punishment ). And that our Lord said we are to live in love and forgiveness.

The best thing to do for those in prison for murder, or just in prison at all is not to put them to death. But to minister to them to get them to repent of their evil ways and come to know the Lord.

 

[JamesMcClay]

Theres thousands of threads in the bible forum demeaning all kinds of beliefs. This thread is about Catholicism

Yes and when you condemn others you exalt yourself as being righteous.

There are more damning doctrines in the Baptist church than the Catholic Church. OSAS, the Rapture, to name a few.

Christians love to attack others whiletheywallowinfilth. People believe the Gospel -- to a point --/ but they never GRab hold of eternal life --- and are destroyed.

 

[Last]

Wow. The romanist retelling of history is of no interest to me. If you have an argument to make from the scripture please bring it forth. Otherwise you are simply filling the air with vanity for which I have no interest.

That's not only hypocritical, but absurd.
One, you have made all kinds of historical claims without referring to scripture.
Two, scripture does not record anything after the 1st Century AD, so that's impossible.

What you are essentially doing is saying you have nothing to refute what I said and you do not wish to back up your claims. Thus, you revert to the classic "YOU NEED TO SAY SCRIPTURE" line, like that means anything for a period following the writing of the NT.

Born again by the way comes right from the lips of Jesus. John 3:3

I said born again Christian. That terms was developed by evangelicals recently.

 

[Last]

The preaching of the cross is to those who perish foolishness but to those who are saved it is the power of God unto eternal life. You keep the pope I'll take Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I guess that sounds good to you, but it has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Last]

Let me ask you the question How is it that even though a lack of communication between Siberia and Alaska and Moscow and even Serbia, and Constantinople the Russian Church was able to preserve the same Faith with no differences from Serbia, Russia, or Greece or even Alaska (or even the Western Rites like myself?)????

That Catholic faith remains preserved. You will always find heretics in any group. If you think the Orthodox do not have dissenters, you really need to look more into your faith.

 

[notuptome]

I guess that sounds good to you, but it has nothing to do with my post.

Correct but it has everything to do with your soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

That's not only hypocritical, but absurd.
One, you have made all kinds of historical claims without referring to scripture.
Two, scripture does not record anything after the 1st Century AD, so that's impossible.

What you are essentially doing is saying you have nothing to refute what I said and you do not wish to back up your claims. Thus, you revert to the classic "YOU NEED TO SAY SCRIPTURE" line, like that means anything for a period following the writing of the NT.

I'm quite certain that you are astute enough to know that I am referring to the history that rome touts. The catholic church is infamous for writing history that supports their position. It is useless to debate the authenticity of their historical accounts because that which they produce is biased and that which they don't like they keep hidden. I can support history that is confirmed in scripture but not in roman traditions.

I said born again Christian. That terms was developed by evangelicals recently.

You may wish to deny the need to be born again but Jesus is the one who said ye must be born again. John 3:3 It is a statement that one must accept even if the pope had said it. Is this a ploy to attack the messenger since the message cannot be impeached? Born again is what makes one a Christian. I'm quite certain that it's a fact that did not escape the Lord when He spoke it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[OrthodoxCatholic]

That Catholic faith remains preserved. You will always find heretics in any group. If you think the Orthodox do not have dissenters, you really need to look more into your faith.

There are no Orthodox heretics. Once an Orthodox person accepts heresy, he is no longer ORthodox according to the canons and council. This is why the so-called patriarchates are not Orthodox.

And that is the difference between RC and ORthodox. The Orthodox are compelled to break communion with heretics while Rome would consider them still in the church. Satan cannot exist with Christ just as heresy cannot exist in the Church, the holder of the True Faith and the Body of Christ.

 

[Last]

Correct but it has everything to do with your soul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That seems to be a very roundabout way of the typical internet fundamentalist who, when backed into a corner, goes into a holier than thou spiel and questions the other person's salvation, instead of staying on point.

 

[Last]

I'm quite certain that you are astute enough to know that I am referring to the history that rome touts.

Actually I am referring to the history that any serious or secular historian would agree with. It does not fit into your world view so you went on about how I need to defend history as accepted by everyone except landmarkists and people way out there by pointing to scripture. Which of course, is impossible since the bible does not cover 100AD-2014AD. Somehow that 'give me scripture argument' may have worked for you in the past to avoid defending your claims, but it won't work here.

The catholic church is infamous for writing history that supports their position.

Actually, it is not.

It is useless to debate the authenticity of their historical accounts because that which they produce is biased and that which they don't like they keep hidden. I can support history that is confirmed in scripture but not in roman traditions.

No, you present a false history outside the time period of the NT, get called on it and then are going on rambling about Romanish traditions and scripture. It's like you are throwing out sound bites but they don't even logically connect.

I might as well say, "The fact of the matter is that I do not trust bubble gum for my salvation. I trust in Jesus Christ for my history and I don't see why you disagree with Jesus Christ's history because you seem to support bubble gum."

You may wish to deny the need to be born again but Jesus

Where did I say we don't need to be born again?

I said the phrase: "Born again Christian" was invented in the 1960s by American Evangelicals.

is the one who said ye must be born again. John 3:3 It is a statement that one must accept even if the pope had said it. Is this a ploy to attack the messenger since the message cannot be impeached? Born again is what makes one a Christian. I'm quite certain that it's a fact that did not escape the Lord when He spoke it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This is exactly the tactic of the group that coined the phrase.
See, they invented the term "Born again Christian". They found the term "Born again" and started going on and on about the importance of being a "Born again Christian". The term is redundant - to be a Christian is to be born again. They coined the term and loaded a whole bunch of theology into it. That way, if you ever question the term or the man-made traditions that have loaded into the phrase, you are accused of going against scripture.

Scripture says we must be born again. Scripture does not say "Born again Christian". It does not have all the man-made traditions of altar calls and sinners prayers.

 

[Last]

There are no Orthodox heretics. Once an Orthodox person accepts heresy, he is no longer ORthodox according to the canons and council. This is why the so-called patriarchates are not Orthodox.

And that is the difference between RC and ORthodox. The Orthodox are compelled to break communion with heretics while Rome would consider them still in the church. Satan cannot exist with Christ just as heresy cannot exist in the Church, the holder of the True Faith and the Body of Christ.

I have no idea what patriarchs you are referring to. I am not sure why this is difficult for you to get. Whatever you can say in regards to heretics and dissidents of Catholicism apply to Eastern Orthodoxy. There are people that claim to be Catholic who disagree on a matter of the faith, which makes them a heretic. Thus, they are a "Catholic" heretic because they are heretical while claiming to be Catholic. In the same way there are people who claim to be Orthodox who disagree on a matter of the faith, which makes them a heretic - a Orthodox heretic.

 

[GaryA]

The phrase 'born-again Christian' is most definitely redundant. However, it was coined for the purpose of illustrating the difference between a true Christian and a "so-called christian" - one who is really not a Christian at all. To be a true Christian, one must be born-again - of the Holy Spirit of God. Unless one is born-again, they are not a true Christian. Without the Holy Spirit of God, one cannot be saved - nor can they be a follower of Christ.

Without the Holy Spirit of God, we can do nothing. The scriptures are exceedingly clear on this.

Being 'born-again' is being born into Spiritual Life. Without it, one is spiritually dead.

 

[OrthodoxCatholic]

I have no idea what patriarchs you are referring to. I am not sure why this is difficult for you to get. Whatever you can say in regards to heretics and dissidents of Catholicism apply to Eastern Orthodoxy. There are people that claim to be Catholic who disagree on a matter of the faith, which makes them a heretic. Thus, they are a "Catholic" heretic because they are heretical while claiming to be Catholic. In the same way there are people who claim to be Orthodox who disagree on a matter of the faith, which makes them a heretic - a Orthodox heretic.

Yes there are people who CLAIM to be ORthodox (such as the current 'patriarchates like Bartholowmew and Kyril and John X ect) but they are NOT ORthodox once they accept a heresy, they CEASE to be Orthodox and are outside the Church, cannot receive Communion and the Faithful cannot pray with him (however they should pray for his return).

RC on the other hand doesn't see it this way. It says heresy and Truth can exist together in the Church. That is why SSPX has an illogical position. This is why you have 'conservative' branches of the New Roman Catholic and Liberal branches. This is why the world patriarchates are allowed to take communion from RC parishes along with Nestorians, Monophysites, and even Protestants. You will all pray together for the "peace of the world" (whatever you mean by this no one really knows since they prefer the ambiguity. On the other hand we True Orthodox pray for God's peace that is True Peace of Christ's reign on earth and for the growth of the Church by converting the heterodox and heathen.

 

[OrthodoxCatholic]

And we are not 'eastern' Orthodoxy, we are the True Orthodox Catholic Christian Church do not confuse us for a cultural church we are the entire Church East AND West. I am a Western Rite Orthodox of the Sarum Rite.

 

[ThomistColin]

And we are not 'eastern' Orthodoxy, we are the True Orthodox Catholic Christian Church do not confuse us for a cultural church we are the entire Church East AND West. I am a Western Rite Orthodox of the Sarum Rite.

It is Eastern Orthodoxy. Originally it was the Byzantine Church, but that split. In the end, Orthodoxy spread throughout Eastern Europe and Western Asia, in essence it spread East of Western Civilization, hence Eastern Orthodoxy. Be angry with scholars, they are the ones who teach and use the phrase.

 

[notuptome]

That seems to be a very roundabout way of the typical internet fundamentalist who, when backed into a corner, goes into a holier than thou spiel and questions the other person's salvation, instead of staying on point.

That is the point. The natural man, the unsaved man cannot repeat cannot understand the Spirit. In fact it is foolishness to him. Any church doctrine based on merit with or without grace is not going to satisfy God. Grace alone is able to save.

All the snootiness of the high church is erased by the simple grace of God in Christ through the blood of the cross of Calvary. All the smoke of self worship is far from the heart that pleases God.

If you will not be saved you will perish.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[OrthodoxCatholic]

It is Eastern Orthodoxy. Originally it was the Byzantine Church, but that split. In the end, Orthodoxy spread throughout Eastern Europe and Western Asia, in essence it spread East of Western Civilization, hence Eastern Orthodoxy. Be angry with scholars, they are the ones who teach and use the phrase.

I do not care how a bunch of secular scholars look at us. We are the Orthodox. (Only the True Orthodox are actually ORthodox). And the fact that Rome calls us (although only referring to the heretical false patriarchates) the "Eastern Churches" is basically saying they are both in the same Church. Rome allows Eastern ROman Catholics to venerate Orthodox saints such as St. Gregory Palamas and St. Seriphim of Sarov. Rome recognizes our Mysteries whereas we do not recognize Rome's as Grace-filled. According to Rome we pretty much have everything to e in te Church. I mean the false Bathlomew already commemorates the pope in the Mass in Istanbul. Greek "Orthodox" and ROman Catholics receive communion from each others churches. they hold prayer services together. The 2 are already one. And Rome does include us True ORthodox in the category Orthodox, so Rome would pray with us, would give us communion. We True ORthodox believe that the Truth is more important then a false 'unity'

 

[Katy-follower]

There are more damning doctrines in the Baptist church than the Catholic Church. OSAS, the Rapture, to name a few

Sorry, but I disagree. SALVATION is the most important one to get right, and this is where Catholicism goes against the scriptures. They teach a different way to be saved.

Not sure why you compare salvation with non salvational views like belief in a rapture or OSAS? Firstly they're biblical and secondly I am not saved by my belief in a rapture. How can these views possibly be damning and on par with a system that teaches a different gospel of salvation?

 

[notuptome]

Yes and when you condemn others you exalt yourself as being righteous.

There are more damning doctrines in the Baptist church than the Catholic Church. OSAS, the Rapture, to name a few.

Christians love to attack others whiletheywallowinfilth. People believe the Gospel -- to a point --/ but they never GRab hold of eternal life --- and are destroyed.

You are on the wrong thought. It is not about any church. It is about Jesus Christ. It is about what the bible teaches about Jesus Christ. Scripture teaches that all are not righteous in Gods eyes. Scripture teaches that by grace the unrighteous are made righteous. Not by works of merit fro they are all as filthy rags but by the righteousness of Christ.

You cast aspersions on others to make yourself appear righteous. Not a good plan especially in light of the bible declaring that the righteousness of Christ is the standard not the righteousness of men or any church organization.

It is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to convict men of sin, righteousness and judgment through the hearing of the word of God which is the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger