ONCE saved always saved!.

[Jason0047]

Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind (soul / mind). Except a man be born ... of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (spirit). Offer your bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God (body).

For we are to keep our soul, spirit, and body blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[newbirth]

I agree that if we do not abide in Christ or if we don't bear the fruit of God we will not be saved. But I am getting the impression from you that you are teaching that it is in you doing works that will help to save you. First comes regeneration then comes obedience. It's not the other way around. For those true believers that are saved by His grace are going to naturally walk after the Spirit and abide with God and bring forth much fruit. For salvation is not magical wish granted to you by a genie (OSAS). Neither is salvation reduced to a certain "To do list", either. For you seem to think that salvation is faith in Jesus Christ (and repentance of one's sin) + works. However, actually, salvation is faith in Jesus Christ (and repentance one's sins) = works. Salvation is a person named Jesus Christ (1 John 5:12). When one repents of their sins and accepts Jesus for real, they are given a new heart, and a new spirit and then God lives within them whereby we allow Him to do the good work within us. If a believer messes up, they confess that sin and strive to forsake that sin with God's help. You can't do it on your own. You can't save yourself. Jesus is the One that will save you. We are nothing. God is everything. For He must increase, and I must decrease. For there is no salvation in any other name but Jesus Christ. So the moment one tries to out do the work of Christ in order to be saved is trying to be a co-savior with Christ. They are hoping to be saved if they just go out there and do one more religious thing. But Ephesians 2:8-9 and Tiitus 3:5 refute such thinking. We are saved by grace and not by our works. Works are just the result of a true faith (James 2:19); And one can be saved RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW by repenting of their sins and accepting Jesus.

Faith comes by hearing ...When one hears the word of God it is alive and calls you to him....when you answer the call...you are instructed in the way of God in response to the faith he gave you through the word. You obey his commands to repent and be baptised for the remission of sins...to receive the Holy spirit.You are reborn a new creature , created unto good works.

So we have to allow Him to do the good work within us ??...He is not saying they did not allow him to work within them. He is saying they did not do it.....
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[newbirth]

If one is praying and they are still yet carnal then they are at enmity with God. For carnal mind is against God. So the above passages you quote only applies to true believers and not false believers. For there were false believers who did many wonderful works for Jesus but yet Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. See Matthew 7.

I am not here to judge who is carnal or who is a true or false believer...I just quoted the word. The scripture did not say false believers did many wonderful works so true believers must not do any...That is like saying evil men see so I must pluck out my eyes because I am not evil.To say the flesh cannot communicate with spirit is rubbish ...we were only flesh when God spirit spoke to us. We were all Gods enemy before we got saved, in fact He died for us while we were yet sinners.

 

[Jason0047]

I am not here to judge who is carnal or who is a true or false believer...I just quoted the word. The scripture did not say false believers did many wonderful works so true believers must not do any...That is like saying evil men see so I must pluck out my eyes because I am not evil.To say the flesh cannot communicate with spirit is rubbish ...we were only flesh when God spirit spoke to us. We were all Gods enemy before we got saved, in fact He died for us while we were yet sinners.

You don't seem to understand where I am coming from. I am not advocating that a believer is to have no fruit within their life. But your approach to having fruit is for salvation. Mine is not. My salvation is in Jesus Christ. Fruit is just the results of the vine of Christ. For without Christ we can do nothing. So salvation is in Jesus Christ whereby He transforms you so as to bring forth fruit. Salvation is not in works. Works are merely the result of salvation.

 

[Jason0047]

Faith comes by hearing ...When one hears the word of God it is alive and calls you to him....when you answer the call...you are instructed in the way of God in response to the faith he gave you through the word. You obey his commands to repent and be baptised for the remission of sins...to receive the Holy spirit.You are reborn a new creature , created unto good works.

So we have to allow Him to do the good work within us ??...He is not saying they did not allow him to work within them. He is saying they did not do it.....
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It sounds like you are reading down a check of things to do in order to be saved. Baptism does not save you. Baptism and other works that are done by a believer is the result of one having been saved when they repented of their sins and accepted Jesus; They are not done for salvation. For if they were, then Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 would be lying.

 

[newbirth]

You don't seem to understand where I am coming from. I am not advocating that a believer is to have no fruit within their life. But your approach to having fruit is for salvation. Mine is not. My salvation is in Jesus Christ. Fruit is just the results of the vine of Christ. For without Christ we can do nothing. So salvation is in Jesus Christ whereby He transforms you so as to bring forth fruit. Salvation is not in works. Works are merely the result of salvation.

That is not my approach it is scripture....He transforms you so as to bring forth fruit....if we don't bear fruit we are cut off and thrown into the fire. No believer is in Christ for decoration we are created unto good works , what do you think we are created for, we are ambassadors .

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 

[Jason0047]

That is not my approach it is scripture....He transforms you so as to bring forth fruit....if we don't bear fruit we are cut off and thrown into the fire. No believer is in Christ for decoration we are created unto good works , what do you think we are created for, we are ambassadors .

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Okay. Your not listening to what I am saying. Again, I am not advocating a beleiver to have no works or obedience. For faith without works is dead. I believe what James says. In other words, in both our positions we believe that works are necessary to show if a believer is true or not. But the difference between us is that you believe works is for salvation and I believe Jesus is my salvation (whereby works is just the result of having been saved). Therein lies the difference between us.

 

[Atwood]

Once Saved, Saved! Eternal Security

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.







h.

 

[newbirth]

It sounds like you are reading down a check of things to do in order to be saved. Baptism does not save you. Baptism and other works that are done by a believer is the result of one having been saved when they repented of their sins and accepted Jesus; They are not done for salvation. For if they were, then Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5 would be lying.

Does the scripture say... repent and be baptised for the remission of sins? You are telling God what is work and what is faith...You are also telling God when and how one is saved.
Does the scripture say ...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
We are saved by Grace God does that, through faith we have to do that...

 

[newbirth]

Okay. Your not listening to what I am saying. Again, I am not advocating a beleiver to have no works or obedience. For faith without works is dead. I believe what James says. In other words, in both our positions we believe that works are necessary to show if a believer is true or not. But the difference between us is that you believe works is for salvation and I believe Jesus is my salvation (whereby works is just the result of having been saved). Therein lies the difference between us.

you are coming through loud and clear...You are saying that I am saying works for salvation...I am saying Jesus said... I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

You have your own view on salvation and Christ has his....I will stick with Christ.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Once Saved, Saved! Eternal Security

Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.







h.

You are good at compiling scriptures , of which you have no understanding.like a broken record, You are entwined in a doctrine of man which has clouded your mind. See those long posts they are proof that you are still trying to convince yourself.

Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons,

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


Those who wander away and those who depart from the faith are they still saved?

 

[Jason0047]

you are coming through loud and clear...You are saying that I am saying works for salvation...I am saying Jesus said... I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[SUP]6[/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

You have your own view on salvation and Christ has his....I will stick with Christ.

Please go back and re-read what I wrote. I already explained that a true believer is marked by having fruitful works and a life of holiness. So for you to post verses that I am not in disagreement is simply you ignoring what I have written. So I won't reply to your posts until you actually reply to mine by reading them, my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

Does the scripture say... repent and be baptised for the remission of sins? You are telling God what is work and what is faith...You are also telling God when and how one is saved.
Does the scripture say ...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
We are saved by Grace God does that, through faith we have to do that...

You need to go back and read my posts, my friend. I am not against baptism. I am not against works. I think these things are very important part of a Christian faith that follow salvation and that they are evidences of one having been saved. James says faith without works is dead. I believe him.

James says faith without works is dead.
I believe him.

One more time.

James says faith without works is dead.
I believe him.

In other words, please don't post a verse about how I must do works. I am not against them. I believe works is the proof in the pudding that God lives within the believer.

 

[newbirth]

Please go back and re-read what I wrote. I already explained that a true believer is marked by having fruitful works and a life of holiness. So for you to post verses that I am not in disagreement is simply you ignoring what I have written. So I won't reply to your posts until you actually reply to mine by reading them, my friend.

I have read and understood what you said... (whereby works is just the result of having been saved) if this is so they account for nothing, therefore not necessary,I am saying you have been saved but if you don't bear good fruit you will be hewn down and cast into the fire. So it is not just the result of having been saved. Because you were created unto good works.If you don't do what you were created for you useless. and will not be able to stand in the last day

 

[Atwood]

I have read and understood what you said... (whereby works is just the result of having been saved) if this is so they account for nothing, therefore not necessary,

Necessary? Not necessary for salvation; that is of grace. But when it comes to wanting to glorify the Lord, they are necessary. I am not loving and serving my Savior because I am afraid he would roast me in a fire if I don't. What an awful, morbid, even selfish attitude. What's in it for me? On the contrary, the love of Christ constrains me, moves me to total dedication. To glorify Him is my highest joy. It is totally necessary that I glorify Him, the One who loved me so very much & continues to love Me with unfailing love, from which nothing can separate me.

 

[Jason0047]

I have read and understood what you said... (whereby works is just the result of having been saved) if this is so they account for nothing, therefore not necessary,I am saying you have been saved but if you don't bear good fruit you will be hewn down and cast into the fire. So it is not just the result of having been saved. Because you were created unto good works.If you don't do what you were created for you useless. and will not be able to stand in the last day

No, they don't account for nothing. Works and a life of holiness is the proof that you have been saved.
For as I said before, faith without works is dead. No works means you have a dead faith. So works are not for nothing. James was trying to attack the false heresy that those he was preaching to could ignore the Spirit and live however they like (which is OSAS). James was saying that we cannot ignore God striving to transform our heart so that we can allow Him to do the good work within our lives. Works do not save you because it is God who does the good work in you. We just choose to abide with God or not. Doing a specific work does not save in and of itself. Salvation is 100% Jesus Christ and not in what you do.

 

[Ukorin]

No, they don't account for nothing. Works and a life of holiness is the proof that you have been saved.
For as I said before, faith without works is dead. No works means you have a dead faith. So works are not for nothing. James was trying to attack the false heresy that those he was preaching to could ignore the Spirit and live however they like (which is OSAS). James was saying that we cannot ignore God striving to transform our heart so that we can allow Him to do the good work within our lives. Works do not save you because it is God who does the good work in you. We just choose to abide with God or not. Doing a specific work does not save in and of itself. Salvation is 100% Jesus Christ and not in what you do.

Can a God-fearing, holiness-pursuing, faith-living Believer hold to OSAS doctrine,
or does that doctrine always cause people to sin and not care?



This threads focus seems to focus on the last two words in the OSAS acronym, and forgets about the first two.

If a man is saved from hell, then from hell he is saved. If a man is not saved from hell, than from hell he is not saved.
A man cannot be saved from hell more than once. It's a one time thing.

 

[Ukorin]

There can be no second chance at salvation, because Christ cannot be crucified again.
If salvation can be lost, then it is gone forever, and no chance to reclaim it.

Do you really believe that you have lost your salvation before? Or has God always been faithful to bring you back to the fold when you've strayed?

Salvation is not the fold. Salvation is being one of God's sheep.
The fold is blessing and reward.

 

[Jason0047]

Just a few pages back I discussed this point.

Check out Post #854 for a long list of those who have forfeited their salvation.

Also, OSAS is "Force Love" and not "True Love." Check out Post #855 to learn more.

 

[Ukorin]

Just a few pages back I discussed this point.

Check out Post #854 for a long list of those who have forfeited their salvation.

Also, OSAS is "Force Love" and not "True Love." Check out Post #855 to learn more.

Do you believe that YOU have ever lost your salvation?

Also, I really want to here your answer to my 1st question.