ONCE saved always saved!.

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

While I normally don't mind revealing such information, in this case, you are attempting to make it a personal so as to avoid looking at what I posted in Scripture. In other words, I won't mind answering the question if we examine a couple of the verses in my post first. For we must always come to the Word of God to help explain these things. Making things personal is just a way of avoiding the actual issue in my opinion. Things can easily be discussed in a third person kind of way. But for starters, James 5:19, 20 makes it clear that we can save a believer who has backslidden into sin and cover many of their sins in order to save their soul from death.

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

In other words, James here is telling the brethren that if any of them errs from the truth, and they convert him back, they should know that they have in effect had converted a sinner from the error of his way, saved a soul from death, and have helped to get them cleansed by Jesus so as to hide many of their sins (thru repentance or confession).

Ukorin · Aug 2, 2014

Jason0047 said:

You added 'soul' to your interpretation. The verse is saying what is said in many Scriptures, that God chastened His Children (Believers, not unbelievers), and ultimately to physical death (not eternal damnation).
This is why we need to get personal for a moment before moving on.

I have been following the thread, and I see far too much misinterpreting Scripture (James specifically, which is for maturing in Christ and receiving the good life and blessings that God desires for us rather than the discipline of the Father upon His children, not eternal salvation).

If you aren't going to relate doctrine to our daily walk, then why study it?

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

Ukorin said:

No. Read the passage again. It says the word "soul." It is clear that it is converting a believer back to the faith with him having back slid into sin. They are brought back to the faith by getting them to repent.

Skinski7 · Aug 2, 2014

Ukorin said:

Salvation is a manifest state not a thing.

Salvation is not something you lose so to speak in the sense that you could lose your wallet. An individual can leave a state of salvation very easily.

An individual who has been saved has been saved from something. What have they been saved from? Sin. We are saved from sin.

How are we saved from sin? Jesus said that those who commit sin are slaves to sin but he came to set people free indeed. In other words Jesus came to set us free from committing sin by transforming our hearts.

Salvation is a state of existence that a Christian enters into upon repenting of their rebellion to God and therefore abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. A road or a path or a way is entered. A way where one walk in a yielded state to the Spirit of God.

This walk or path or road is entered into by faith whereby we trust and believe in God and therefore act on that belief. In doing this the grace of God (His dynamic influence) can then effectually transform our inner man and the new birth takes place. Thus we are saved by grace through faith via the quickening of our spirits. This process is the gift of God.

One can abandon this path anytime by refusing to endure in it. This is why the Bible admonishes us in many places to endure to the end. It is only through enduring to the end that we are ultimately saved. Our salvation is guaranteed if we remain faithful in this state. If we rebel against God then we are forfeiting our resting place.

Very few people are truly getting saved today because of the false Gospel taught in most churches. Most people view salvation in an abstract sense. They do not view it as a manifest reality of abiding in truth in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. Instead they believe they are saved by proxy and that salvation is more a book keeping entry and it therefore has NOTHING to do with their conduct.

Those who preach OSAS are viewing salvation from this false perpsective. It is impossible to believe in OSAS if one knows what salvation really is.

One thing that is very noticeable is that those who believe in OSAS will always defend being able to rebel against God and yet remain in a reconciled state at the same time. They will always argue in favour of this premise. They will always argue in favour of being able to sin and not surely die.

Those who promote OSAS deny that the wages of sin is death. They think that sins wages can be life if one "believes and trusts something" while they engage in sin. The salvation they believe in is a mental fiction.

matthew1634 · Aug 2, 2014

OSAS is not a license to sin, thats what many think but thats not true. The bible condemns sinning, and those who are regenerated by the holy spirit will begin to put on a new self

Atwood · Aug 2, 2014

Jason0047 said:

Jason, I doubt that anyone going to go back to your old posts.
Never does scripture speak of losing salvation; in fact "losing salvation" is a oxymoron -- if it were lost, then you never had it.

It is OSS = Once Saved, Saved!
Now your post does not prove your claim. What is your proof? Instead of just saying things & reasoning philosophically, give heed to God's Word.
Eternal Security is a matter of God keeping His word:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."

He Who began a good work in you will complete it.

The inheritance is incorruptible, undefiled, fades not away, and is guarded by God.
He is the author & perfecter of our faith.
Surely goodness & mercy shall follow me all the day of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

foreknew>predestined>called>justified>glorified

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

Jason, will you this day repent of writing off the Lord Jesus as a mere "chance-giver"? Trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior.

No ifs, ands, or buts, Jason:

He shall save His people from their sins.

Skinski7 · Aug 2, 2014

matthew1634 said:

Salvation being viewed as an abstraction is evident right there in the statement "will begin" which implies a "gradual transformation of the heart."

The Bible says...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It does not say "he will begin to be a new creature," rather is says "HE IS a new creature." Old things don't begin to pass away, they HAVE passed away. That is because the old man IS crucified as opposed to being "gradually" crucified.

What Satan has done is convince people that salvation is "freedom from condemnation" whilst "one still continues to serve sin." Satan has convinced people that salvation is a "legal standing" separate from the "heart being changed." Thus salvation comes first and then the heart change comes later which necessitates the view that there is an "inbetween time" of continued rebellion to God while one is reconciled. That is the danger. Satan has got people to buy into the notion that they can willfully engage in evil and be right with God at the same time. They can sin and not surely die.

The truth is that genuine salvation has removed an individual from their state of rebellion. The bondage is broken through repentance and faith whereby one has approached God truthfully and entered into the New Covenant whereby they abide in the Spirit of life of Jesus Christ. There is no inbetween stage of sinning less. Sure there is growth in the future but that is growth of knowledge and understanding and then applying that knowledge and understanding, it IS NOT sinning less.

Skinski7 · Aug 2, 2014

Atwood said:

If you turn the key in my car ignition it will start.

A true statement.

Yet this statement is contingent on there being gas in the tank, there being an engine in the car, there being a battery connected. Take any of those things out and the car will not start.

The Bible is the same. It is not a book of one lined proof texts. The Bible is a harmonious message presented here a little and there a little and it ALL has to be taken into account.

What you do Atwood is harp on isolated proof texts whereby you ignore the context. You do this in most of the posts you make and you even think that writing in big letters accents your point.

You are like someone who continues to turn the key in the ignition when the car has no battery. You ignore the greater context and because of that you have deceived yourself.

SeaBass · Aug 2, 2014

Skinski7 said:

Atwood always leaves out Phil 1 verse 5 that says For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now

The "gas in the tank" is the Philippians were faithful in their remaining in the gospel from the "first day until now" and in turn God will be faithful to continue a good work in them.

SeaBass · Aug 2, 2014

Jason0047 said:

The Christian is told to do good works therefore has the responsibility to do the good works, God does not do those good works for the Christian. The idea that God does all the works while man sits like a bump on a log is an idea pulled out of thin air by faith only advocates in their quest in trying to find a way to get a man saved and remained saved while that man sits and does nothing.

If one does as God says then he can know with assurance he is saved. God promised to save those that obey Christ, Heb 5:9. God cannot lie, so if one is obeying Christ he can know with certainty he will be saved. He can also know with certainty if he quits obeying Christ he will be lost, 2 Thess 1:8.

The tax collector was justifed under the law of Moses. Who of us today under the law of Christ will be justified in unbelief, Jn 8:24? Justified while impenitent, Lk 13:3,5? Justified while a denier of Christ, Mt 10:32,33? Justified while remaining in his unremitted, unwashed sins, Acts 2:38?

SeaBass · Aug 2, 2014

Jason0047 said:

...not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God...

Again, Peter already said in Acts 2:38 baptism is for remission of sins. So why would he contradict himself in 1 Pet 3:21 by saying baptism does not remit/wash away sins? Peter categorically stated baptism saves. So if baptism does not wash away sins then Peter lied about baptism saving.

In 1 Pet 1:21 Peter is contrasting that water baptism is not for..not cleaning the flesh but is the answer of a good conscience towards God. The fact baptism washes away sins is why Peter said is is the answer of a good conscience towards God.

2 Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God

If man has no role in his own salvation then why does Paul say "cleanse ourselves"?? How does man cleanse himself???

SeaBass · Aug 2, 2014

seed_time_harvest said:

God has given man free will to choose to do well or choose to not do well, Gen 4:7. Man is not totally depraved.

newbirth · Aug 2, 2014

Skinski7 said:

Salvation being viewed as an abstraction is evident right there in the statement "will begin" which implies a "gradual transformation of the heart."

The Bible says...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

It does not say "he will begin to be a new creature," rather is says "HE IS a new creature." Old things don't begin to pass away, they HAVE passed away. That is because the old man IS crucified as opposed to being "gradually" crucified.

What Satan has done is convince people that salvation is "freedom from condemnation" whilst "one still continues to serve sin." Satan has convinced people that salvation is a "legal standing" separate from the "heart being changed." Thus salvation comes first and then the heart change comes later which necessitates the view that there is an "inbetween time" of continued rebellion to God while one is reconciled. That is the danger. Satan has got people to buy into the notion that they can willfully engage in evil and be right with God at the same time. They can sin and not surely die.

The truth is that genuine salvation has removed an individual from their state of rebellion. The bondage is broken through repentance and faith whereby one has approached God truthfully and entered into the New Covenant whereby they abide in the Spirit of life of Jesus Christ. There is no inbetween stage of sinning less. Sure there is growth in the future but that is growth of knowledge and understanding and then applying that knowledge and understanding, it IS NOT sinning less.

You have not seen it all yet...Soon you will get a post saying we are born of God and does not sin because we are born of the spirit and the spirit cannot sin, it is the flesh that sin. So we can do whatever sin and it does not matter

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

Skinski7 said:

matthew1634 said:

Actually, not all forms of OSAS are alike. In my discussion with many different types of OSAS proponents over the years, I have discovered that there are three major types of OSAS.

OSAS Type #1:
Classic OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) which says you can practice unrepentant sin that leads unto death (Such as lying, murder, hate, fornication, etc.) and yet you can somehow still be saved.

OSAS Type #2:
Mid Range OSAS says that you cannot practice sin otherwise you do not know God. However, abiding in an occasional or small unrepentant sin and then dying in that sin will not necessarily send you to Hell.

OSAS Type #3:
OSAS Lite teaches that you if you practice or continually abide in unrepentant sin then you were never saved to begin with. Meaning that a true believer is characterized by them living righteously. So falling away from the faith would be impossible (Despite the many verses that talk about such a thing).

Personally, I believe in the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation" that teaches that a true believer who is saved will naturally bring forth a life full of holiness and fruitful works. Now, do not misunderstand me, works are not done to be saved, but they are merely the evidence that you have been saved when one repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. If a believer sins, they need to immediately confess that sin and forsake it and continue to walk uprightly with their Lord. If a believer continues to abide in unrepentant sin that leads unto death (lying cheating murder etc.) then they are not saved.

So seeing I hold to the Biblical View of "Conditional Salvation", I am naturally against all forms of OSAS. However, that said, I believe that only those who hold to "Conditional Salvation" and "OSAS Lite" are true Christians (or my brothers). However, I believe all other forms of OSAS are teachings from the pits of Hell and are false.

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

SeaBass said:

So then Paul was lying when he said, "but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." ?

1 Corinthians 15:10
"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

Works are the natural result of one having been born again spiritually. James was trying to correct the false heresy that you cannot have a faith that has no works. He was not saying that you have to do works to be saved. He was essentially saying that a true saving faith will always produce works. For faith is merely the vehicle by which we access the grace of God that saves us. Faith and or works (that shows one's faith to be true) does not save in and of itself without the grace of God. It is God's grace that ultimately saves us. Works are naturally done by the true believer because they have been transformed or born again spiritually.

In other words, believing that works saves you is sort of like putting the cart before the horse. For you believe that your repentance (Which is a work) saves you. You believe that your baptism (Which is a work) saves you. You believe that your tithing (Which is a work) saves you.

To put it to you another way, it would be like God say, "Do this.... And then you can be saved. Oh, wait! Your not quite saved yet. I have something else for you to do so that you can be saved."

Jason0047 · Aug 2, 2014

For if you believe works save you then salvation then is not in by the work of Jesus Christ (Titus 3:5) (Ephesians 2:8-9) but salvation has been then reduced to a series of religions actions on your part or a "To Do List."

Skinski7 · Aug 2, 2014

newbirth said:

That dual nature stuff is pretty much the fundamental premise of gnosticism.

It teaches that there is a difference between the flesh body (in regards to conduct) and the spirit.

The truth is that the flesh body is simple a vehicle which we inhabit. The flesh body may tempt us with its natural passions but sin is when we give ourselves over to those natural passions in disregard for our knowledge of doing right.

It isn't really surprising that human beings would invent a means to blame their sin on something apart from freely made choices. Doing such a thing undermines personal responsibility and actually defames God as being the cause of human sin.

ONCE saved always saved!.

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