Presidential Wish List......

[Atwood]

Capitalism is not perfect but it is by far the best system for achievement and true equality....ya know...earned equality.
. . . Communism sounds good...to children, still [censored!] who think they need protection from every harm.

Well InMe, let me suggest a different perspective. The choice really isn't between socialism and non-socialism (binary thinking). This is a scaler situation.
You might rate a government on a scale of 0-10 on how socialist it is, and propose where you would put it, say 3.4 or whatever. Probably you don't want complete anarchy and no government services (no public roads, no police, no fire departments, no minister of god who bears not the sword in vain -Rom 13). You probably want a government that gives some help to the poor (Daniel 4's admonition to King Nebuchadnezzar).

The ideal role in the government in the economy also, IMHO, is not spelled out very clearly in the Bible.

I would not confuse Christianity with one's position on how socialist a government should be. I don't think the Bible is that clear on it. I think that the Law of Moses and Samuel's warnings about the new king should have some weight, with the story of Naboth's Vineyard.

 

[jahsoul]

Capitalism is inherently evil and is only destined to destroy itself. That whole love of money thing ya know.

EDIT: Also Teddy Roosevelt led one of the most Christian ethical eras in all American history, and building off William McKinley's defeat of the Spanish Empire tranformed America from a mere nation to an Empire. Lol TR is lightyears ahead of any Democrat or Republican of the past 50 years in terms of good governance.

Wow....what book did you read? History tells a completely different story. And in case you didn't know, being an empire isn't a great thing. All of them fail...

And Lincoln can stay where he is also...

 

[GodIsSalvation]

For the fact capitalism is severely flawed, one need only do some research on the Great Depression.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Of course the Lord can fool us all and put anyone in the white house, but actually to me it seems utterly knuckle-headed for someone to try to be president directly without first being one of the following:
1) Veep,
2) Congersman,
3) Senator,
4) triumphant general,
5) governor.

The only exception I can think of to this rule is Jackie Kennedy, who might have been president had she run.

I agree with this too, though I guess I'm a bit more lenient, I'd make a consideration for some of the major Cabinet positions too, namely Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense. Governors I am a bit leery of due to lack of foreign policy experience, but I suppose with the breadth of the modern system this isn't too terribly important if they appoint competant advisors.

 

[jahsoul]

For the fact crony capitalism is severely flawed, one need only do some research on the Great Depression.

Fixed that for ya..

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Fixed that for ya..

Lol that's still capitalism, in fact capitalism in its pure form as it makes sense in a capitalist sense to form oligopolies and monopolies to destroy competitors and expand to more customers to reap bigger profits. Capitalism is the economic philosophy that growth in Capital is to be the primary driving force in means of production. Unfettered and pure capitalism is immoral. Behold how even with good regulations and controls we have put in place over the past centuries that it is still a task to totally mitigate the woes of capitalism.

Good business is more than just money and material goods. Consider the importance of assuring quality service, having a good reputation, treating your servants/employees equitably, ensuring your servants also uphold common sense Christian ethics for their own safety as well as the customer, and maintaining loyalty to the customer are far bigger factors in business both with examples of good and bad.

Lol and just to touch on subject of communism to those that brought it up. Communism never has existed at any point in history. Ironically, any real diehard communist will tell you this lol. They speak well too for communism cannot trully exist because Marx's Industrial Revolution fantasy states there can be no God. Yet clearly God exists therefore Marx's theory has never trully been realized. Communism ain't even that old of an economic/political/religious policy, nor is capitalism if you figure they go back to Karl Marx and Adam Smith respectively.

So really it is no wonder both sides are of a crooked coin and are flawed and clearly a Christian Populist approach I suppose the term be, is best for function of government. Even for the merchants Christian ethic in business sphere is wise for wise business owners and wise employees/servants and also the consumers.

 

[biscuit]

I really believe it won't matter because the corporate elites are running the show to fulfill their greed & lust off the backs of the American people. The new president and newly elected congressional members will be nothing more than foot soldiers for corporate America. It will get worse before it gets better. We won't see a change for the better until Jesus sits on His throne in Jerusalem, and gets rid of the goats. Believe the next American president will be the last before the Antichrist take power over the earth.

 

[jahsoul]

Lol that's still capitalism, in fact capitalism in its pure form as it makes sense in a capitalist sense to form oligopolies and monopolies to destroy competitors and expand to more customers to reap bigger profits. Capitalism is the economic philosophy that growth in Capital is to be the primary driving force in means of production. Unfettered and pure capitalism is immoral. Behold how even with good regulations and controls we have put in place over the past centuries that it is still a task to totally mitigate the woes of capitalism.

Good business is more than just money and material goods. Consider the importance of assuring quality service, having a good reputation, treating your servants/employees equitably, ensuring your servants also uphold common sense Christian ethics for their own safety as well as the customer, and maintaining loyalty to the customer are far bigger factors in business both with examples of good and bad.

Lol and just to touch on subject of communism to those that brought it up. Communism never has existed at any point in history. Ironically, any real diehard communist will tell you this lol. They speak well too for communism cannot trully exist because Marx's Industrial Revolution fantasy states there can be no God. Yet clearly God exists therefore Marx's theory has never trully been realized. Communism ain't even that old of an economic/political/religious policy, nor is capitalism if you figure they go back to Karl Marx and Adam Smith respectively.

So really it is no wonder both sides are of a crooked coin and are flawed and clearly a Christian Populist approach I suppose the term be, is best for function of government. Even for the merchants Christian ethic in business sphere is wise for wise business owners and wise employees/servants and also the consumers.

Look a little bit deeper into how regulations affect businesses. They are part of the reason people would rather build warehouses oversea. But to touch on your point, a free market society doesn't rely on government to sway the market. Review the definition that you have just given for capitalism and ask yourself this question; without capital how can production continue? I agree with you, from the inside out, good business is just more than money and material goods, but if a company isn't producing any material goods, how can they make money? If a company isn't making money, how can they continue to pay their employees?

In your 2nd paragraph, you are assuming that we are running the business right? Because being an employee, you can only police your own Christian ethics.....but other than that, I do agree a lot with you, but we also can't act as if money and jobs just grow on trees. Companies have legitimately failed using that same model. Whether you agree with this or not, the bottom line of a business is to produce a product that in turn brings a return. Workers get paid for producing and managing the products that brings the company a return. So I do agree with what you are saying, but at the same time, not oblivious to the fact that it all goes hand in hand.

As far as the Christian approach, it doesn't rely on any form of government to take care of the welfare of the people. Once upon a time, the church took on that responsibility.

 

[skipp]

I don't really hold much hope for the next president, regardless of what political party they are.

 

[Atwood]

I agree with this too, though I guess I'm a bit more lenient, I'd make a consideration for some of the major Cabinet positions too, namely Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense. Governors I am a bit leery of due to lack of foreign policy experience, but I suppose with the breadth of the modern system this isn't too terribly important if they appoint competant advisors.

Good Morning EloShua'--

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough; I was not speaking of leniency or what I want; I was speaking of political reality. No one has ever become the Pretzel without first having been triumphant general, veep, congressman, senator, or governator first. If a cabinet member advanced to the Potus without being one of those first, that would be a new wrinkle on the historical stage.

 

[Atwood]

Whether you agree with this or not, the bottom line of a business is to produce a product that in turn brings a return.

How about the bottom line of milking the governmental cash-cow? To wit, how about running a Bus-Service in a large city, service which runs at a loss, but gets a 1 percent sales tax funneled to the maHOGany offices?

As far as the Christian approach, it doesn't rely on any form of government to take care of the welfare of the people. Once upon a time, the church took on that responsibility.

What leads you to think that? The Church was never given the responsibility of "welfare of the people" by the Lord. We are to care for the Body of Christ, yes -- widows, etc. As the opportunity arises, yes we are to do acts of charity to unsaved persons in the world; but we are assured that the poor will ever be with us.

 

[SonInMe]

Well InMe, let me suggest a different perspective. The choice really isn't between socialism and non-socialism (binary thinking). This is a scaler situation.
You might rate a government on a scale of 0-10 on how socialist it is, and propose where you would put it, say 3.4 or whatever. Probably you don't want complete anarchy and no government services (no public roads, no police, no fire departments, no minister of god who bears not the sword in vain -Rom 13). You probably want a government that gives some help to the poor (Daniel 4's admonition to King Nebuchadnezzar).

The ideal role in the government in the economy also, IMHO, is not spelled out very clearly in the Bible.

I would not confuse Christianity with one's position on how socialist a government should be. I don't think the Bible is that clear on it. I think that the Law of Moses and Samuel's warnings about the new king should have some weight, with the story of Naboth's Vineyard.

Since when does any socialist government care about the only two viable reasons for government, the military and infrastructure?

I know the marxist leftists out there salivate over kings but in the USA we really do not have one, no matter how much this president abuses his power. I have absolutely no problem with a very limited or non-existant government charity structure. The bigger the charity by this government, the less jobs there are. Your bloated ''compassion is making people.....

POOR.

Look at the stats. 70% of all monies collected for charity stays in the government. The average rate in private charities is 30%. When your lovely government says it cares about you what it is really saying is..we care for ourselves.

Socialism always evolves. Its never static. Ask Spain. Ask Greece. Ask Detroit. Ask the Soviet Union. Ask China. These principles always fail, always. Why try it again?

Liberalism/socialism/marxism holds to the biblical truths in 1 Samuel 8:10-20.

Our founding fathers knew what a large central government was and did everything they could to limit it and it made the USA number 1 in the world. Too bad we decided to throw all of that away.....for appearences.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It takes more than a president to fix anything in the U.S. because our entire form of government is constructed so that it takes the people to do it.

Corrupt, deceived, and ignorant politicians are merely a symptom of a much larger corrupt, deceived, and ignorant populace. Until you fix that problem, it just goes merrily on into a brick wall.

 

[dcontroversal]

When I read the OP title I was thinking (kingship) or (satrap) or (dictator) and then devolved into.....HAHAHH

 

[Atwood]

Since when does any socialist government care about the only two viable reasons for government, the military and infrastructure?

Well, what is your proof that those 2 are the only viable reasons for government? You have scripture? Does that agree with Dan 4?

IMHO: Infrastructure is the Ross Perot term which he injected into the discourse, like Clinton did with "invest" for tax & spend.

You still fail to get point. All govt is socialist. The only theoretical alternative is anarchy; the closest to that I know of is the Book of Judges where the punch line is that in those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes.

To be accurate, you would have to speak of the degree of socialism, say on a scale of 0-10. What is your optimum degree? 3.14159?

To think in binary terms of non-socialist vs socialist is invalid.

As to "care," care varies from person to person; it is not as if there were some monolithic "care." What does a bureaucrat care about? The Soviet Union's leadership cared a lot about military. European social democrats seem not to be so eager about it.

At any rate, the right approach would be to figure out what is the optimum degree of socialism. Would it be the same for each culture? But as for me, I don't really have time to figure this out, as I have other fish to fry.

But as things now are in the USA, I would vote for lower tax, lower spending, and smaller government. But there is no way it would be good to eliminate all collective enterprise by government. I would have the govt do as Daniel told Neb, help the poor some.

27 "Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by showing mercy to the poor; . . . ."

 

[3Scoreand10]

. Believe the next American president will be the last before the Antichrist take power over the earth. [/QUOTE

I believe that Obama is the last president.

I think we will see the antichrist before Obama leaves office.

To plan or hope for a new president that will lead this nation back to prosperity and rightousness is a waste of time.

God's judgment on the Daughter of Babylon ( the USA ) is about to began.

 

[Sirk]

It takes more than a president to fix anything in the U.S. because our entire form of government is constructed so that it takes the people to do it.

Corrupt, deceived, and ignorant politicians are merely a symptom of a much larger corrupt, deceived, and ignorant populace. Until you fix that problem, it just goes merrily on into a brick wall.

.....or off a giant cliff.

 

[Atwood]

. Believe the next American president will be the last before the Antichrist take power over the earth. [/QUOTE

I believe that Obama is the last president.

I think we will see the antichrist before Obama leaves office.

To plan or hope for a new president that will lead this nation back to prosperity and rightousness is a waste of time.

God's judgment on the Daughter of Babylon ( the USA ) is about to began.

You know, when I read the lament over the fall of Mystery Babylon in Revelation, I think how appropriate the language would be to the fall of the USA, though I am sure that Rev 17-18 does not address the USA. I wonder tho if any would lament. Probably more would sneer like the hotel clerk in High Noon at the impending doom of Gary Cooper: He has a comeuppance coming. I can see the scum of the earth sneering, "They had it coming." And indeed we do.

I hope you aren't the fanatic who was at the Rapture site on YouTube going on about how the Obamer would be the last president, giving a prophecy. He could be of course. You wonder how long Israel can go on like this. I have always thought that the Trib was the Time of Jacob's Trouble, but surely Israel has been in the soup since at least WW II -- not that today compares with the breaking of the covenant of Dan 9 & Rev 12's flight.

I don't plan to see the Sea Beast of Rev 13. I plan to be gone. I would know who it was if he signed a 7 year pact with Israel and the Temple were rebuilt. I would have to revise my doctrine.

I thought Clinton was the pits; but the Obamer puts Clinton in another light. The Republicans IMHO are in the process of destroying themselves over this Children's Crusade.

 

[crossnote]

Is Pat Paulsen still around? No? hmm, Ben Shapiro, sharp as a tack but too young at 30, umm uuh er ughh. I pass.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

in the last election i liked santorum the best...especially because he was the only one to actively go after ron paul...but all the current polling suggests that santorum would probably have to start from the bottom all over again if he were to run again...

rick perry is supposedly interested in running again and i could support him...he seems to be in -much- better condition to run a good campaign than last time when he forgot his own talking points in the middle of a debate...

i did like romney...if he decided to run again he would easily be the most qualified candidate in the election again...but he keeps saying he doesn't want to try again...

if i haven't listed any of the newer potential candidates like rand paul or marco rubio or chris christie or ben carson or ted cruz...it is because most of them just aren't very good...or else they have already made themselves unelectable...

if all else fails i guess there is always another bush...