Righteousness Mat 5:20
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The context does not negate that God imputes righteousness apart from works. Romans 3:24 - Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: It's not through His redemption and our works.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; We need the righteousness of God.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.
Nothing there about salvation by works.
When God sees faith in Christ, He sees union with Christ and when He sees union with Christ, he sees the righteousness of Christ as our righteousness. So faith connects us with Christ who is our righteousness and our faith is imputed, credited, counted as righteousness (Romans 4:6). The righteousness of God in Him...the righteousness which is from God (2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9). "Imputed, credited, reckoned, accounted." The Greek word is used in both financial and legal settings and means to take something that belongs to someone and credit to another's account. It's not our own righteousness.
That's your opinion. Is that why you reject imputed righteousness? (Romans 4:5-6). You think it promotes a license to sin? 2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. Born again, yet practicing sin and not righteousness is an oxymoron.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, *That's really clear.
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
So apart from Christ, there is no guile in our spirit? We are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless in of ourselves? We don't need the righteousness of God in Him?
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; [Abraham trusted God. God reckoned the faith Abraham has as righteousness.]
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Not works, but faith.
Are we saved through faith or by good works/works of righteousness which follow? What did Paul say in Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 timothy 1:9? We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later after we take multiple steps. Salvation is through faith and is not by works.
Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness."
What do you think the righteousness of God in Him...the righteousness which is from God is? (2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9). You think that's our righteousness from works? Who is the only truly righteous person "in of Himself" who ever lived? It's not our works produced in our Christian walk that is accounted for righteousness, but our faith in Christ. There is only One who is truly the righteousness of God.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; We need the righteousness of God.
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.
Nothing there about salvation by works.
When God sees faith in Christ, He sees union with Christ and when He sees union with Christ, he sees the righteousness of Christ as our righteousness. So faith connects us with Christ who is our righteousness and our faith is imputed, credited, counted as righteousness (Romans 4:6). The righteousness of God in Him...the righteousness which is from God (2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9). "Imputed, credited, reckoned, accounted." The Greek word is used in both financial and legal settings and means to take something that belongs to someone and credit to another's account. It's not our own righteousness.
That's your opinion. Is that why you reject imputed righteousness? (Romans 4:5-6). You think it promotes a license to sin? 2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. Born again, yet practicing sin and not righteousness is an oxymoron.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, *That's really clear.
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
So apart from Christ, there is no guile in our spirit? We are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless in of ourselves? We don't need the righteousness of God in Him?
Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; [Abraham trusted God. God reckoned the faith Abraham has as righteousness.]
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Not works, but faith.
Are we saved through faith or by good works/works of righteousness which follow? What did Paul say in Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 timothy 1:9? We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later after we take multiple steps. Salvation is through faith and is not by works.
Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness."
What do you think the righteousness of God in Him...the righteousness which is from God is? (2 Corinthians 5:21; Philippians 3:9). You think that's our righteousness from works? Who is the only truly righteous person "in of Himself" who ever lived? It's not our works produced in our Christian walk that is accounted for righteousness, but our faith in Christ. There is only One who is truly the righteousness of God.
The Pharisees did had obeyed the laws, but they had also neglected the true purpose of the laws by taking the laws literally. They didn't used milk products from the same breed of animal that it was taken from and eat them together; but the true meaning was not to use the very thing (The Word) that nourish a young kid (Child of God) to devour them. But they were going around devouring (condemning) others with the word (milk). By them following the word of God as a tradition but not studying it, has cause them to not show any love towards one another.
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.
Genesis 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
Leviticus 25:35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.
Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Hebrews 13:2 Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.
Genesis 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
Leviticus 25:35 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.
First of all, it is the righteousness of the law that is fulfilled IN us, not by us.
Secondly, you are mixing up two different meanings of righteousness.
1) The righteousness of God (Ro 5:17) and the "imputed" righteousness (Ro 5:19) are justification,
the declaration of "not guilty," giving us a right standing before God by faith in Jesus Christ
which removes, and saves from, God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on our guilt at the final judgment.
It is not a change of character, nor is it sinlessness (1Jn 1:8).
It is a position of right standing before God, a standing of "not guilty."
It is a gift of God (Ro 5:17), as are faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3),
and repentance (2Tim 2;25; Ac 11:18, 5:31).
2) However, what you describe as the "righteousness of God" is not justification, but sanctification.
Sanctification is the life-long process whereby we are transformed into the image of Christ through obedience.
Because you confound the two, you conclude that righteousness of justification
is the righteousness of sanctification and, therefore,
God's gift of righteousness (justification) because of faith serves simply as "a cloak for a sinful state"
which does not practice righteousness (sanctification).
Your "cloak for a sinful state" is based on a misunderstanding of the difference between
the righteousness of justification and the righteousness of sanctification.
Secondly, you are mixing up two different meanings of righteousness.
1) The righteousness of God (Ro 5:17) and the "imputed" righteousness (Ro 5:19) are justification,
the declaration of "not guilty," giving us a right standing before God by faith in Jesus Christ
which removes, and saves from, God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on our guilt at the final judgment.
It is not a change of character, nor is it sinlessness (1Jn 1:8).
It is a position of right standing before God, a standing of "not guilty."
It is a gift of God (Ro 5:17), as are faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3),
and repentance (2Tim 2;25; Ac 11:18, 5:31).
2) However, what you describe as the "righteousness of God" is not justification, but sanctification.
Sanctification is the life-long process whereby we are transformed into the image of Christ through obedience.
Because you confound the two, you conclude that righteousness of justification
is the righteousness of sanctification and, therefore,
God's gift of righteousness (justification) because of faith serves simply as "a cloak for a sinful state"
which does not practice righteousness (sanctification).
Your "cloak for a sinful state" is based on a misunderstanding of the difference between
the righteousness of justification and the righteousness of sanctification.
Questions like those are based in human reasoning, not in the revelation of the NT.
Repentance is a gift of God (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31).
Faith is a gift of God (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).
Positional right standing before God (righteousness of justification) is a gift of God (Ro 5:17).
God gives what he requires for forgiveness of sin, which is salvation (Lk 1:77; Col 1:14)
Repentance is a gift of God (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31).
Faith is a gift of God (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).
Positional right standing before God (righteousness of justification) is a gift of God (Ro 5:17).
God gives what he requires for forgiveness of sin, which is salvation (Lk 1:77; Col 1:14)
Of course it doesn't. The context supports that God does impute or reckon righteousness apart from works.
God reckons FAITH as righteousness. We are justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
You are wrong in that you make a distinction of "it's not through His redemption and our works." That is a fallacy because redemption is not "His redemption." It is our redemption through Jesus Christ and we enter into Christ by faith, a faith that works by love.
You are treating the cross as an abstraction, as something you look at from a distance and then claim. That is not the cross. The Bible teaches that the cross is the means by which we approach God for reconciliation and that approach involves a WORKING faith or a DOING faith.
We don't approach God raping babies and murdering people via the cross seeking reconciliation. Rather we approach God via repentance and faith, coming clean before God, walking in the light as He is in the light and THEN the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us.
The cross is not an abstraction which you claim and salvation as not an abstraction which you hold. By viewing it that way you totally reject its real purpose which is to rescue you from the bondage of sin and whereby you can approach God and be cleansed of your past sin once and for all. Once in a right relationship you have a fresh start.
Thus all your allusions to "it is not of works," "faith in Christ," and so on is moot because your underlying framework is erroneous.
We are saved by grace THROUGH faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, lest any man should boast.
Grace is Charis in the Greek and literally means the divine influence upon the heart. We access that grace by faith and abide in it where it teaches us how to go (ie. it leads or quickens us). It is through the dynamic of yielding to God that the salvation of the soul is wrought in an individual. Want proof? Here you go...
The Mechanic or Working Dynamic.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Grace Quickens (makes us alive)
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Grace Teaches
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Grace is Received to Abide In
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
We are made the righteousness of God IN Christ via cooperating with God (ie. we yield to grace, grace THROUGH faith)
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
(note:- false teachers NEVER connect 2Cor 6:1 to 2Cor 5:21, they quote 2Cor 5:21 in isolation ignoring the context and real meaning)
2Cor 5:21 is a Parallel passage to Romans 8:3-4
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The above dynamic is what you completely ignore. You are viewing salvation as an abstraction obtained by accepting the "work of Christ" which you also view as an abstraction. Thus the outcome of your doctrine is all a mental illusion, ie. NOTHING HAPPENS.
Your doctrine has no "righteousness of the law being fulfilled in you because you walk after the Spirit." Walking after the Spirit is the same as "saved by grace through faith" and being quickened.
Can you understand?
This never happens in your system...
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
By viewing salvation as a package which you receive whereby a foreign righteousness is credited to your account you have totally blown off the purpose of the cross and that is to reform your heart.
The free gift is the working dynamic that we must participate in for it to be effective...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ is not name it and claim it. It involves entering into an abiding state via first repenting of rebellion (through godly sorrow), forsaking that rebellion permanently, and then following Jesus. That has to happen.
Satan has so twisted the Bible that people believe that salvation is a status which they claim by taking the Romans Road (snippets of out of context scripture). That is pure deception.
God reckons FAITH as righteousness. We are justified freely by the grace of God through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ.
You are wrong in that you make a distinction of "it's not through His redemption and our works." That is a fallacy because redemption is not "His redemption." It is our redemption through Jesus Christ and we enter into Christ by faith, a faith that works by love.
You are treating the cross as an abstraction, as something you look at from a distance and then claim. That is not the cross. The Bible teaches that the cross is the means by which we approach God for reconciliation and that approach involves a WORKING faith or a DOING faith.
We don't approach God raping babies and murdering people via the cross seeking reconciliation. Rather we approach God via repentance and faith, coming clean before God, walking in the light as He is in the light and THEN the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us.
The cross is not an abstraction which you claim and salvation as not an abstraction which you hold. By viewing it that way you totally reject its real purpose which is to rescue you from the bondage of sin and whereby you can approach God and be cleansed of your past sin once and for all. Once in a right relationship you have a fresh start.
Thus all your allusions to "it is not of works," "faith in Christ," and so on is moot because your underlying framework is erroneous.
We are saved by grace THROUGH faith and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, lest any man should boast.
Grace is Charis in the Greek and literally means the divine influence upon the heart. We access that grace by faith and abide in it where it teaches us how to go (ie. it leads or quickens us). It is through the dynamic of yielding to God that the salvation of the soul is wrought in an individual. Want proof? Here you go...
The Mechanic or Working Dynamic.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Grace Quickens (makes us alive)
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Grace Teaches
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Grace is Received to Abide In
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
We are made the righteousness of God IN Christ via cooperating with God (ie. we yield to grace, grace THROUGH faith)
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
(note:- false teachers NEVER connect 2Cor 6:1 to 2Cor 5:21, they quote 2Cor 5:21 in isolation ignoring the context and real meaning)
2Cor 5:21 is a Parallel passage to Romans 8:3-4
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
The above dynamic is what you completely ignore. You are viewing salvation as an abstraction obtained by accepting the "work of Christ" which you also view as an abstraction. Thus the outcome of your doctrine is all a mental illusion, ie. NOTHING HAPPENS.
Your doctrine has no "righteousness of the law being fulfilled in you because you walk after the Spirit." Walking after the Spirit is the same as "saved by grace through faith" and being quickened.
Can you understand?
This never happens in your system...
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
By viewing salvation as a package which you receive whereby a foreign righteousness is credited to your account you have totally blown off the purpose of the cross and that is to reform your heart.
The free gift is the working dynamic that we must participate in for it to be effective...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ is not name it and claim it. It involves entering into an abiding state via first repenting of rebellion (through godly sorrow), forsaking that rebellion permanently, and then following Jesus. That has to happen.
Satan has so twisted the Bible that people believe that salvation is a status which they claim by taking the Romans Road (snippets of out of context scripture). That is pure deception.
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The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us because we establish the law by a faith that works by love.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Jesus doesn't establish it for us as our substitute and then pretend that we are righteous when we are still filthy. That is what you are teaching with all the rhetoric removed.
If that wasn't the case then "walking after the Spirit" would have nothing to do with it.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
God reckons our FAITH as righteousness. You claim that God credits the "righteousness of Jesus" to "your account" by faith while you are still in a manifest wicked state. That is why you too avoided the questions I ask and simply write them off...
Those questions about stopping sins like porn watching and stealing are very simple to answer. James wrote this...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Your doctrine denies that.
You belief in Total Depravity teaches that an unregenerate sinner simply cannot lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness before receiving the implanted word within. Total Depravity is a heretical false teaching which became cemented into Christian orthodoxy in the Fourth century due to the prolific influence of Augustine. That satanic doctrine redefined repentance from a "forsaking of rebellion" to a "confession of sinfulness" for all practical purposes.
Thus everything you write will be within the framework of an abstract salvation disconnected from a manifest changed heart. You have an individual getting justified IN their sin positionally.
I'll quote you...
That is very deceptive language and will sound good to those who do not understand the harmonious message of Scripture. You list scripture references and appear on the surface to be contending for truth. Yet you are not.
While it is true that justification is not a "change of character" nor is it "sinlessness" it is not disconnected from those things like you imply.
God reckons genuine FAITH as righteousness and genuine faith comprises of an obedient heart towards God. You cannot disconnect the two. This is why Paul says this in Romans 4:10...
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Genuine faith has steps because faith without works is dead. Faith is a name given to the working dynamic of yielding to God from the heart. A sinner cannot come to a genuine faith without forsaking their rebellion and yielding to God. Again I quote James...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
People like you skip over verses like that because they don't fit your theology. Likewise you skip over verses like these...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 Corinthians 6:1 is a special case in my opinion because it follows directly 2Cor 5:21 which is the Calvinists primary proof text for a forensic legal exchange of Christ righteousness to the believer. 2Cor 6:1 demonstrates that cooperation with God is involved and that directly contradicts your position of monergism (God does it all). Noah still had to build the Ark according to God's instructions and likewise we have to be doers of the word to be saved.
People like you are Bible butchers. You isolate and proof text scriptures from all over the place and when called to task on it you ignore it and jump somewhere else.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Jesus doesn't establish it for us as our substitute and then pretend that we are righteous when we are still filthy. That is what you are teaching with all the rhetoric removed.
If that wasn't the case then "walking after the Spirit" would have nothing to do with it.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
God reckons our FAITH as righteousness. You claim that God credits the "righteousness of Jesus" to "your account" by faith while you are still in a manifest wicked state. That is why you too avoided the questions I ask and simply write them off...
Those questions about stopping sins like porn watching and stealing are very simple to answer. James wrote this...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Your doctrine denies that.
You belief in Total Depravity teaches that an unregenerate sinner simply cannot lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness before receiving the implanted word within. Total Depravity is a heretical false teaching which became cemented into Christian orthodoxy in the Fourth century due to the prolific influence of Augustine. That satanic doctrine redefined repentance from a "forsaking of rebellion" to a "confession of sinfulness" for all practical purposes.
Thus everything you write will be within the framework of an abstract salvation disconnected from a manifest changed heart. You have an individual getting justified IN their sin positionally.
I'll quote you...
That is very deceptive language and will sound good to those who do not understand the harmonious message of Scripture. You list scripture references and appear on the surface to be contending for truth. Yet you are not.
While it is true that justification is not a "change of character" nor is it "sinlessness" it is not disconnected from those things like you imply.
God reckons genuine FAITH as righteousness and genuine faith comprises of an obedient heart towards God. You cannot disconnect the two. This is why Paul says this in Romans 4:10...
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Genuine faith has steps because faith without works is dead. Faith is a name given to the working dynamic of yielding to God from the heart. A sinner cannot come to a genuine faith without forsaking their rebellion and yielding to God. Again I quote James...
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
People like you skip over verses like that because they don't fit your theology. Likewise you skip over verses like these...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 Corinthians 6:1 is a special case in my opinion because it follows directly 2Cor 5:21 which is the Calvinists primary proof text for a forensic legal exchange of Christ righteousness to the believer. 2Cor 6:1 demonstrates that cooperation with God is involved and that directly contradicts your position of monergism (God does it all). Noah still had to build the Ark according to God's instructions and likewise we have to be doers of the word to be saved.
People like you are Bible butchers. You isolate and proof text scriptures from all over the place and when called to task on it you ignore it and jump somewhere else.
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Paul describes faith as a work in this verse...
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
When Paul said "it is not of works lest any man should boast" he was not speaking of the work of a faith that works by love which fulfills the righteousness of the law. No. He was speaking about the works of the law which the Jews boasted in...
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
What is the context of that verse? Here we go...
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Rom 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
So when Paul writes...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
...he is speaking of the dynamic that produces an outcome of salvation, a dynamic which works apart from the works of the law. There are still the WORKS OF FAITH required.
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and not of ourselves. We are saved by faithfully yielding to the lead of God apart from the works of the law.
Grace quickens us, not the law.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
The quickening is the outcome of the working principle of "grace through faith" and the result of the quickening is that of an inward transformation whereby one can stand before God in a manifest state of heart purity. Thus we can have a fresh start with our former rebellion forgiven. That is the free gift.
The imposters in the pulpits and seminaries are teaching that the free gift is an abstraction which you just believe in whilst you remain a Romans wretch. Anyone who is still the Roman's wretch is not saved but still in bondage to sin and death.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
When Paul said "it is not of works lest any man should boast" he was not speaking of the work of a faith that works by love which fulfills the righteousness of the law. No. He was speaking about the works of the law which the Jews boasted in...
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
What is the context of that verse? Here we go...
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Rom 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
Rom 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Rom 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
So when Paul writes...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
...he is speaking of the dynamic that produces an outcome of salvation, a dynamic which works apart from the works of the law. There are still the WORKS OF FAITH required.
We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH and not of ourselves. We are saved by faithfully yielding to the lead of God apart from the works of the law.
Grace quickens us, not the law.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
The quickening is the outcome of the working principle of "grace through faith" and the result of the quickening is that of an inward transformation whereby one can stand before God in a manifest state of heart purity. Thus we can have a fresh start with our former rebellion forgiven. That is the free gift.
The imposters in the pulpits and seminaries are teaching that the free gift is an abstraction which you just believe in whilst you remain a Romans wretch. Anyone who is still the Roman's wretch is not saved but still in bondage to sin and death.
The reason the religious imposters usually refuse to answer simple questions like...
1. Does a pornography addict have to stop indulging in pornography before they can be forgiven by God?
2. Does a thief have to stop stealing before they can be forgiven by God?
3. Does a child molester have to stop molesting children before they can be forgiven by God?
... is because they directly expose the underlying flaw of their theology. Their theology is preaching Satan's first lie of "ye can disobey God and surely not die" which they dress up in Biblical rhetoric.
For example here is a question I sent to a local pastor several years ago...
The reply was...
I contacted a multitude of pastors via email, telephone and in person and they all pretty much gave the same answer with very few exceptions. The above answer was from a Reformed (Calvinist) Pastor of a very large Southern Baptist Church.
The great falling away is in full effect folks. The vast majority of professing Christian's are totally deceived by this lie.
1. Does a pornography addict have to stop indulging in pornography before they can be forgiven by God?
2. Does a thief have to stop stealing before they can be forgiven by God?
3. Does a child molester have to stop molesting children before they can be forgiven by God?
... is because they directly expose the underlying flaw of their theology. Their theology is preaching Satan's first lie of "ye can disobey God and surely not die" which they dress up in Biblical rhetoric.
For example here is a question I sent to a local pastor several years ago...
The reply was...
I contacted a multitude of pastors via email, telephone and in person and they all pretty much gave the same answer with very few exceptions. The above answer was from a Reformed (Calvinist) Pastor of a very large Southern Baptist Church.
The great falling away is in full effect folks. The vast majority of professing Christian's are totally deceived by this lie.
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Amen! So then why do you keep adding works to saved by grace through faith, not works?
Amen!
I'm talking about His "finished work of redemption". I'm not implying that Jesus Himself needed to be redeemed. Galatians 3:13 - Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentilesin Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 1 Peter 1:18 - knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. Christ saves us through faith based on His finished work of redemption and not on the merits of our works/performance/achievements.
Who said anything about from a distance? You treat the cross as if it simply makes salvation "possible" by OUR DOING. The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free gift received through faith in Christ which then consequently leads TO good works/doing? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect? It sounds like you have crossed the line into salvation by works.
Who said anything about that? Does that describe someone with a broken heart and contrite spirit? (Psalms 34:18)
We don't clean ourselves and then Christ accepts us, we accept Him through repentance/faith and then He cleanses us (Acts 15:9; 1 Corinthians 6:11).
So hearts are not purified by faith (Acts 15:9) but not until sometime later, after we walk in the light for a few years first? How do you define walking in the light? Is walking in the light something that only certain Christians do? You need to read verses 6 and 7 together. 1 John 1:6-7 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of lost unbelievers. Walking in the light is descriptive of saved believers. Only saved believers are in the light. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? Lost unbelievers walk in darkness, not in the light. Saved believers walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.
This sounds like a straw man argument.
There is nothing erroneous about salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Salvation by works is an illusion for unbelievers.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. It amazes to see how many people twist the words of Paul to mean saved by grace through faith "infused with good works, which fall under the moral aspect of the law," just not specific works of the law.
Which is unmerited favor.
So yielding to God after faith (through works of obedience) is what you believe really saves us? That is salvation by works.
Notice that we are saved UNTO/FOR good works, NOT by good works. Many people have this backwards.
Amen! By grace ye are saved through FAITH, NOT WORKS (Ephesians 2:8,9).
The grace of God that brings salvation has "appeared to all men." That does not mean that all men will accept God's grace through faith. Grace is God's unmerited favor that brings salvation through faith and in Titus 2:11-12, the "grace of God" also teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly. This is what we are saved FOR, not by. We don't want to put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by works, which is no salvation at all.
Paul's mission, as he perceived it, was to bring people to saving faith in Christ, which in turn, would motivate one to express and evidence that saving faith in appropriate fashion. This obedience flows from saving faith because we are saved, not to become saved. Although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of coming to faith in Christ as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as “obeying the gospel” (Romans 10:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were consistently obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR or UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR or UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced “enough” obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE…(Romans 5:2) not faith “and obedience.” We are saved through faith first, then “unto” obedience (works).
We are made the righteousness of God IN HIM through faith, not by multiple acts of obedience/works.
To receive the grace of God in vain in means to receive it without cause or without effect, to no purpose. In Matthew 6:7, we read - And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. In Matthew 15:9, we read - And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. The context and real meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21 does not equate to salvation by works.
Is walking after the Spirit descriptive of those who are born again or something that lost people do in order to become born again? Are you confusing cause with effect again? Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
So you are saying that salvation is not by grace through faith, which is based on Christ's finished work of redemption, but is based on our works? Ephesians 2:8,9 is not a mental illusion. Salvation by works is. When we receive Christ through faith, how can you say nothing happens? Believers receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) they receive the love of God in their hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to them (Romans 5:5) and they become new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). That is not simply nothing happens. It sounds to me like you are trying to merit salvation based on your performance.
Walking after the Spirit is something that believers do AFTER they have been saved by grace through faith and not before, sot it's not the same. You are turning saved through faith into saved by works. Read the rest: Romans 8:5 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
I clearly understand after reading the rest of Romans 8. I don't isolate "walking after the Spirit" and turn it into salvation by works. I read it in context.
Never happens in my system? So I suppose that you interpret "purified your souls in obeying the truth" as souls were finally purified and person was finally saved after obeying by accomplishing multiple acts of obedience/works. Compare purified your souls in obeying the truth with Acts 15:9 - ..purified their hearts by faith. Now read Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation. By choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) we have obeyed the truth. Multiple acts of obedience which follow are works and we are not saved by works.
So you reject imputed righteousness (Romans 4:5-6) for reform your heart and save yourself by works? 1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
So we must work for and earn this gift? It is of works and not of grace?
Through Jesus Christ, not through our works.
Where are you coming up with these bizarre accusations? Name it and claim it? I'm not a part of the word of faith movement. It is believe and receive (John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31). It's not work for and earn.
That is what happens when we receive Christ through faith. Faith is not without repentance and following Jesus, but that does not mean that we live sinless, without fault or defect, flawless perfect lives from that point on.
Satan wants you to believe that salvation is by works so that he can keep you from trusting exclusively in Christ as the all sufficient means of your salvation, because he knows that salvation is found ONLY IN CHRIST.
Amen!
I'm talking about His "finished work of redemption". I'm not implying that Jesus Himself needed to be redeemed. Galatians 3:13 - Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentilesin Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 1 Peter 1:18 - knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. Christ saves us through faith based on His finished work of redemption and not on the merits of our works/performance/achievements.
Who said anything about from a distance? You treat the cross as if it simply makes salvation "possible" by OUR DOING. The "whole picture", rests on cause and effect. Do we do good works TO QUALIFY for God's grace? Or is God's grace a completely free gift received through faith in Christ which then consequently leads TO good works/doing? Do we do something because of faith, or is our faith caused by something we do? Which is cause and which is effect? It sounds like you have crossed the line into salvation by works.
Who said anything about that?
Does that describe someone with a broken heart and contrite spirit? (Psalms 34:18)We don't clean ourselves and then Christ accepts us, we accept Him through repentance/faith and then He cleanses us (Acts 15:9; 1 Corinthians 6:11).
So hearts are not purified by faith (Acts 15:9) but not until sometime later, after we walk in the light for a few years first? How do you define walking in the light? Is walking in the light something that only certain Christians do? You need to read verses 6 and 7 together. 1 John 1:6-7 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of lost unbelievers. Walking in the light is descriptive of saved believers. Only saved believers are in the light. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? Lost unbelievers walk in darkness, not in the light. Saved believers walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.
This sounds like a straw man argument.
There is nothing erroneous about salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Salvation by works is an illusion for unbelievers.
Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. It amazes to see how many people twist the words of Paul to mean saved by grace through faith "infused with good works, which fall under the moral aspect of the law," just not specific works of the law.
Which is unmerited favor.
So yielding to God after faith (through works of obedience) is what you believe really saves us? That is salvation by works.
Notice that we are saved UNTO/FOR good works, NOT by good works. Many people have this backwards.
Grace Quickens (makes us alive)
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
The grace of God that brings salvation has "appeared to all men." That does not mean that all men will accept God's grace through faith. Grace is God's unmerited favor that brings salvation through faith and in Titus 2:11-12, the "grace of God" also teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly. This is what we are saved FOR, not by. We don't want to put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by works, which is no salvation at all.
Paul's mission, as he perceived it, was to bring people to saving faith in Christ, which in turn, would motivate one to express and evidence that saving faith in appropriate fashion. This obedience flows from saving faith because we are saved, not to become saved. Although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of coming to faith in Christ as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as “obeying the gospel” (Romans 10:16), the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were consistently obedient to God. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR or UNTO obedience to the faith. Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR or UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT by good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). In Romans 1:5, Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced “enough” obedience. We have access by FAITH into GRACE…(Romans 5:2) not faith “and obedience.” We are saved through faith first, then “unto” obedience (works).
We are made the righteousness of God IN HIM through faith, not by multiple acts of obedience/works.
To receive the grace of God in vain in means to receive it without cause or without effect, to no purpose. In Matthew 6:7, we read - And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. In Matthew 15:9, we read - And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. The context and real meaning of 2 Corinthians 5:21 does not equate to salvation by works.
Is walking after the Spirit descriptive of those who are born again or something that lost people do in order to become born again? Are you confusing cause with effect again? Romans 8:8 - So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
So you are saying that salvation is not by grace through faith, which is based on Christ's finished work of redemption, but is based on our works? Ephesians 2:8,9 is not a mental illusion. Salvation by works is. When we receive Christ through faith, how can you say nothing happens? Believers receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) they receive the love of God in their hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to them (Romans 5:5) and they become new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). That is not simply nothing happens. It sounds to me like you are trying to merit salvation based on your performance.
Walking after the Spirit is something that believers do AFTER they have been saved by grace through faith and not before, sot it's not the same. You are turning saved through faith into saved by works. Read the rest: Romans 8:5 - For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
I clearly understand after reading the rest of Romans 8. I don't isolate "walking after the Spirit" and turn it into salvation by works. I read it in context.
Never happens in my system? So I suppose that you interpret "purified your souls in obeying the truth" as souls were finally purified and person was finally saved after obeying by accomplishing multiple acts of obedience/works. Compare purified your souls in obeying the truth with Acts 15:9 - ..purified their hearts by faith. Now read Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation. By choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) we have obeyed the truth. Multiple acts of obedience which follow are works and we are not saved by works.
So you reject imputed righteousness (Romans 4:5-6) for reform your heart and save yourself by works? 1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
So we must work for and earn this gift? It is of works and not of grace?
Through Jesus Christ, not through our works.
Where are you coming up with these bizarre accusations? Name it and claim it? I'm not a part of the word of faith movement. It is believe and receive (John 1:12; 3:16; Acts 10:43; 16:31). It's not work for and earn.
That is what happens when we receive Christ through faith. Faith is not without repentance and following Jesus, but that does not mean that we live sinless, without fault or defect, flawless perfect lives from that point on.
Satan wants you to believe that salvation is by works so that he can keep you from trusting exclusively in Christ as the all sufficient means of your salvation, because he knows that salvation is found ONLY IN CHRIST.
In everything you write you make no distinction between the "works of the law" and the "work of faith."
You state this...
Here is what I said...
There is an active working dynamic of cooperation between man and God that produces a saved soul. You are writing that dynamic off by refusing to make a distinction between the "works of the law" and the "work of faith."
Take for example Noah...
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah was saved by grace through faith. God's grace was the warning and instructions and Noah's faith was believing God and building the Ark. That dynamic must exist. Noah didn't trust in God, believe it was already done and have to do nothing. Noah had to do something to be saved.
It is through DOING that salvation is wrought. You are claiming that doing is a byproduct of being saved first.
You are viewing the gift of salvation is a package which you simply accept and trust in. That view is incorrect. I pointed to 2Cor 6:1...
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (note:- false teachers NEVER connect 2Cor 6:1 to 2Cor 5:21, they quote 2Cor 5:21 in isolation ignoring the context and real meaning)
Yet you just blow that off with...
Yet 2Cor 6:1 plainly says "as workers together with him" where...
Workers Together - sunergeō - G4903
From G4904; to be a fellow worker, that is, co-operate: - help (work) with, work (-er) together.
...Paul is speaking of a cooperative work must take place between God and man for grace to be effectual. You completely ignore "working together" due to this mental obstacle you have of "salvation by works."
Yes salvation is not of works, not of the works of the law, ie. circumcision, feast days. Look at the surrounding context of Eph 2:8-10...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Both Jew and Gentile are to approach God in the same manner by the one Spirit. Salvation is not of the works of the Mosaic law. Yet salvation is very much of the work of faith because FAITH IS A WORK.
Here is a statement you make...
Faith IS obedience. It is impossible to be faithful and disobedient at the same time. You are treating faith as mere "mental trust" and implying that it is possible to be disobedient at the same time. Thus that entire paragraph is premised on a fallacy.
This is why you make erroneous statements which you attribute to my position like...
Obedience is an aspect of genuine faith. When Paul teaches that "we receive grace for obedience" he understands that we receive God's influence on our hearts so that we may DO IT and it is in the doing that heart transformation occurs. It was in DOING that an Ark was produced before the flood. Jesus preached DO. Jesus preached KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
When I speak of the work of faith I am not speaking of the good works of Eph 2:10. That is you failing to make certain distinctions and thus you fall into error because you misunderstand what I am writing.
You have obviously heard "not of works" so many times preached without any distinction being made between the "works of the law" and the "work of faith" that you have trouble perceiving that genuine faith is connected to faithfulness or DOING. Thus you throw that aspect right out the window.
You make the same mistake in this quote...
In that you state...
No, it has nothing to do with that. The work of faith is not accomplishing multiple acts of obedience works. The work of faith is YIELDING TO GOD FROM THE HEART. That is what saves. You don't make the distinction between "fruit" and a "working faith." You only appear to perceive "fruit" and think I am claiming that "fruit saves you." Wrong.
Paul wrote this...
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Obedience from the heart is absolutely mandatory and genuine FAITH is inclusive of obedience from the heart. A working faith is absolutely essential to the dynamic that produces a saved soul.
Your version has faith as something passive and is merely "trust that something already happened." You then look at the cross as an abstraction where Jesus did everything for you and you just trust that it has already been accomplished and then you perceive the changes in you happening sometime down the track. That is the deception because it negates the death of the old man, the crucifixion of the flesh once and for all whereby the body of sin is done away with. Think about that.
You have the old man still very much alive and then wait for the old man to be gradually transformed and in the meanwhile trust in what you perceive as a done deal. Thus you say things like...
What do you think repentance is? Repentance is a cleansing, not a cleansing of past sin for we cannot undo that, it is a cleansing of a present state of rebellion.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
We don't cleanse ourselves?
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Being lifted up is conditional upon cleansing ourselves in repentance. That is somethine we must do. The Prodigal Son had to leave the pig pen BEFORE his father received Him back. So do we.
The cleansing God does is the cleansing of our past sins. He washes those away and gives us a fresh start, but that doesn't happen unless we approach God correctly.
So in summary...
1. There is a distinction between the "work of faith" and the "works of the law."
2. "Not of works" does not mean "not of doing."
3. Salvation is a result of "God leading" and the "Christian submitting" which is synergism (cooperation or two parties working together for an outcome) and this produces a transformation of the heart.
4. Repentance involves a self cleansing whereby the rebellion to God is forsaken.
5. Dying with Christ in the baptism of repentance is where the rebellion to God ceases once and for all because our old man is crucified whereby the body of sin is destroyed once and for all. It is through this death that we are set free from the bondage of sin once and for all.
6. Having been crucified with Christ we are then raised up with Christ by the Spirit to walk in newness of life where we have victory over sin, the flesh and the devil.
You state this...
Here is what I said...
There is an active working dynamic of cooperation between man and God that produces a saved soul. You are writing that dynamic off by refusing to make a distinction between the "works of the law" and the "work of faith."
Take for example Noah...
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Noah was saved by grace through faith. God's grace was the warning and instructions and Noah's faith was believing God and building the Ark. That dynamic must exist. Noah didn't trust in God, believe it was already done and have to do nothing. Noah had to do something to be saved.
It is through DOING that salvation is wrought. You are claiming that doing is a byproduct of being saved first.
You are viewing the gift of salvation is a package which you simply accept and trust in. That view is incorrect. I pointed to 2Cor 6:1...
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. (note:- false teachers NEVER connect 2Cor 6:1 to 2Cor 5:21, they quote 2Cor 5:21 in isolation ignoring the context and real meaning)
Yet you just blow that off with...
Yet 2Cor 6:1 plainly says "as workers together with him" where...
Workers Together - sunergeō - G4903
From G4904; to be a fellow worker, that is, co-operate: - help (work) with, work (-er) together.
...Paul is speaking of a cooperative work must take place between God and man for grace to be effectual. You completely ignore "working together" due to this mental obstacle you have of "salvation by works."
Yes salvation is not of works, not of the works of the law, ie. circumcision, feast days. Look at the surrounding context of Eph 2:8-10...
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Both Jew and Gentile are to approach God in the same manner by the one Spirit. Salvation is not of the works of the Mosaic law. Yet salvation is very much of the work of faith because FAITH IS A WORK.
Here is a statement you make...
Faith IS obedience. It is impossible to be faithful and disobedient at the same time. You are treating faith as mere "mental trust" and implying that it is possible to be disobedient at the same time. Thus that entire paragraph is premised on a fallacy.
This is why you make erroneous statements which you attribute to my position like...
Obedience is an aspect of genuine faith. When Paul teaches that "we receive grace for obedience" he understands that we receive God's influence on our hearts so that we may DO IT and it is in the doing that heart transformation occurs. It was in DOING that an Ark was produced before the flood. Jesus preached DO. Jesus preached KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.
When I speak of the work of faith I am not speaking of the good works of Eph 2:10. That is you failing to make certain distinctions and thus you fall into error because you misunderstand what I am writing.
You have obviously heard "not of works" so many times preached without any distinction being made between the "works of the law" and the "work of faith" that you have trouble perceiving that genuine faith is connected to faithfulness or DOING. Thus you throw that aspect right out the window.
You make the same mistake in this quote...
In that you state...
No, it has nothing to do with that. The work of faith is not accomplishing multiple acts of obedience works. The work of faith is YIELDING TO GOD FROM THE HEART. That is what saves. You don't make the distinction between "fruit" and a "working faith." You only appear to perceive "fruit" and think I am claiming that "fruit saves you." Wrong.
Paul wrote this...
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Obedience from the heart is absolutely mandatory and genuine FAITH is inclusive of obedience from the heart. A working faith is absolutely essential to the dynamic that produces a saved soul.
Your version has faith as something passive and is merely "trust that something already happened." You then look at the cross as an abstraction where Jesus did everything for you and you just trust that it has already been accomplished and then you perceive the changes in you happening sometime down the track. That is the deception because it negates the death of the old man, the crucifixion of the flesh once and for all whereby the body of sin is done away with. Think about that.
You have the old man still very much alive and then wait for the old man to be gradually transformed and in the meanwhile trust in what you perceive as a done deal. Thus you say things like...
What do you think repentance is? Repentance is a cleansing, not a cleansing of past sin for we cannot undo that, it is a cleansing of a present state of rebellion.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
We don't cleanse ourselves?
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Being lifted up is conditional upon cleansing ourselves in repentance. That is somethine we must do. The Prodigal Son had to leave the pig pen BEFORE his father received Him back. So do we.
The cleansing God does is the cleansing of our past sins. He washes those away and gives us a fresh start, but that doesn't happen unless we approach God correctly.
So in summary...
1. There is a distinction between the "work of faith" and the "works of the law."
2. "Not of works" does not mean "not of doing."
3. Salvation is a result of "God leading" and the "Christian submitting" which is synergism (cooperation or two parties working together for an outcome) and this produces a transformation of the heart.
4. Repentance involves a self cleansing whereby the rebellion to God is forsaken.
5. Dying with Christ in the baptism of repentance is where the rebellion to God ceases once and for all because our old man is crucified whereby the body of sin is destroyed once and for all. It is through this death that we are set free from the bondage of sin once and for all.
6. Having been crucified with Christ we are then raised up with Christ by the Spirit to walk in newness of life where we have victory over sin, the flesh and the devil.
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Mailman,
Would you care to answer these questions?
1. Does a pornography addict have to stop indulging in pornography before they can be forgiven by God?
2. Does a thief have to stop stealing before they can be forgiven by God?
3. Does a child molester have to stop molesting children before they can be forgiven by God?
I post these questions because they expose the fundamental flaw of what people like you believe. They really get to the root of the matter and that makes many people uncomfortable.
Would you care to answer these questions?
1. Does a pornography addict have to stop indulging in pornography before they can be forgiven by God?
2. Does a thief have to stop stealing before they can be forgiven by God?
3. Does a child molester have to stop molesting children before they can be forgiven by God?
I post these questions because they expose the fundamental flaw of what people like you believe. They really get to the root of the matter and that makes many people uncomfortable.
Here is something else I wrote...
To which mailman replied...
I don't reject imputed righteousness. I reject the perversion of imputed righteousness which teaches that the "righteousness of Christ" is credited to a believers account. I reject that "Jesus obedient track record" is credited to the believer. That is what I reject.
Imputed righteousness in Romans chapter 4 means God reckons GENUINE FAITH as righteousness. In other words God overlooks a sinners past sin if they have repented and are faithful. Abraham truly trusted God and thus put his life in God's hands.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
When God told Abraham to do something Abraham did it because Abraham had genuine faith. Abraham walked in the steps of faith (Rom 4:12) and God therefore counted him as righteous.
Imputed righteousness has NOTHING to do with God crediting the righteousness of another to our accounts. That doctrine serves to uphold the notion that you can sin and not surely die because God no longer sees your ongoing rebellion. That is a satanic deception.
To which mailman replied...
I don't reject imputed righteousness. I reject the perversion of imputed righteousness which teaches that the "righteousness of Christ" is credited to a believers account. I reject that "Jesus obedient track record" is credited to the believer. That is what I reject.
Imputed righteousness in Romans chapter 4 means God reckons GENUINE FAITH as righteousness. In other words God overlooks a sinners past sin if they have repented and are faithful. Abraham truly trusted God and thus put his life in God's hands.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
When God told Abraham to do something Abraham did it because Abraham had genuine faith. Abraham walked in the steps of faith (Rom 4:12) and God therefore counted him as righteous.
Imputed righteousness has NOTHING to do with God crediting the righteousness of another to our accounts. That doctrine serves to uphold the notion that you can sin and not surely die because God no longer sees your ongoing rebellion. That is a satanic deception.