For ever

[crossnote]

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This context aionios would be ongoing, unending.

Ezekiel 46:14 "And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a meat offering continually by a perpetual ordinance unto the Lord."

In this context, as long as the covenant existed between God and the Jews it would be perpetual. Yet the Jews broke the covenant, God cast off the Jews (Rom 11) Christ took that OT covenant out of the way (Col 2:14) leaving no OT covenant between God and the Jews.

Mixing up Covenants again. The Jews broke the conditional Mosaic Covenant but God is faithful to perform the UNCONDITIONAL Abrahamic, Land, Davidic and New Covenants.
The Jews can't break that which God unconditionally sets in motion.

 

[notuptome]

Forever one day longer than the water baptism threads run. One day longer than the once saved always saved threads run. One minute shorter than many think they have to trust the Lord for salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Eccl 1:4 "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever (owlam)" (2 Pet 3:10)

Owlam would be a long duration, long period of time.


Psa 92:8 "But thou, LORD, art most high for evermore (owlam)"

Owlam here would be infinite, eternal, unending

 

[SeaBass]

Mixing up Covenants again. The Jews broke the conditional Mosaic Covenant but God is faithful to perform the UNCONDITIONAL Abrahamic, Land, Davidic and New Covenants.
The Jews can't break that which God unconditionally sets in motion.

The Jews broke that covenant time and time again. That covenant said "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" yet the Jews turned to idolatry time and again.

Ex 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

When Moses was on the mountain with God the Jews built an idol, a golden calf and worshipped it, Ex 32:1-6. God said to Moses:
Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them (broke the covenant): they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation." Ex 32:7-10

God said to Moses that God would destroy Israel and raise up from Moses a great nation to carry out God's will and be in a covenant relationship with God. If God had destroyed Israel would God have then broken the "everlasting" covenant He made with Israel? No, for Israel broke the covenant thereby ending the covenant If God so chose to do. So the covenant would be "perpetual" as long as both parties (God and Israel) kept that covenant. Of course God kept what He said He would do it was the Jews that broke the covenant time after time after time....


The covenants God made with Israel are said to be perpetual/eternal but they were CONDITIONAL.

Gen 17:8 "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God"

The land covenant was an "everlasting possession" yet keeping an "everlasting" possession of that land was conditional, Joshua 23:14-16. ..."And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you,and not one thing hath failed thereof. Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you."

 

[phil112]

Sometimes the "forever" covenant ended without being broken.

Numbers 25:13 "[SUP] [/SUP]And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel."

This is the Lord's words, but that covenant is no longer in effect.

Hebrews 6:20 "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec"

Christ is now our "forever" high priest. There can be no disputation of that.

 

[crossnote]

The Jews broke that covenant time and time again. That covenant said "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" yet the Jews turned to idolatry time and again.

Ex 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

When Moses was on the mountain with God the Jews built an idol, a golden calf and worshipped it, Ex 32:1-6. God said to Moses:
Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves: They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them (broke the covenant): they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation." Ex 32:7-10

God said to Moses that God would destroy Israel and raise up from Moses a great nation to carry out God's will and be in a covenant relationship with God. If God had destroyed Israel would God have then broken the "everlasting" covenant He made with Israel? No, for Israel broke the covenant thereby ending the covenant If God so chose to do. So the covenant would be "perpetual" as long as both parties (God and Israel) kept that covenant. Of course God kept what He said He would do it was the Jews that broke the covenant time after time after time....


The covenants God made with Israel are said to be perpetual/eternal but they were CONDITIONAL.

Gen 17:8 "And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God"

The land covenant was an "everlasting possession" yet keeping an "everlasting" possession of that land was conditional, Joshua 23:14-16. ..."And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you,and not one thing hath failed thereof. Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you."

you are simply wrong about the Abrahamic being conditional. God says 'I WILL' with no 'IF'S'.

No wonder you live under a yoke of works.

 

[SeaBass]

you are simply wrong about the Abrahamic being conditional. God says 'I WILL' with no 'IF'S'.

No wonder you live under a yoke of works.

The 'if' is in Joshua 23:14-16.

 

[crossnote]

The 'if' is in Joshua 23:14-16.

That's still in the realm of the Mosaic Covenant especially as spelled out in Deureronomy 28.
You should do an indepth study on the Abrahamic Covenant, it'll do you a world of good.

 

[phil112]

Where did red go? She popped in, then when I suggested she think about it, she left. Perhaps she thought about it and saw where it went.

Not surprising. I don't see any law/sabbath keepers chiming in here. You folks know the answer and don't want to face it. Your eternity, not mine, but you should be keenly interested in truth. It is immutable and acknowledging it is key to salvation.

 

[phil112]

How anti-climatic!I was hoping for some interest. Oh well, I will forge ahead. There is some good information we need to remind ourselves of.

How many of you, especially sabbath keepers, know what type and anti-type is?

 

[phil112]

Still no takers? Some of you folks amuse me.

The paschal lamb sacrificed for the Passover is a type. Christ's crucification was the anti-type. In 1 Corinthians 5:7, Paul said "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Melchizedek was a type. Christ is the anti-type.
The type/anti-type analogy is repeated frequently throughout the old and new testaments.
The sabbath is a type. Our rest in Christ is the anti-type.

Exodus 31:16 "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant."
Here is what Adam Clarke said about that scripture: " "A perpetual covenant." - Because it is a sign of this future rest and blessedness, therefore the religious observance of it must be perpetually kept up. The type must continue in force till the antitype come."

The anti-type is here. Forever, pertual, means until such time as it is no more. The people that that pact was made for is no longer. Israel was a type for us. With Christ's kingdom now here, the anti-type is spiritual jews.
Romans 2:28,29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." The law God gave to Israel was a type for the love we have for God and our brothers, the anti-type.

Two things to note.
1. The law and sabbath was never meant for you.
2. The time established for both was fulfilled at the cross.


This condensed study is accurate and rooted entirely in scripture. If you keep the law and or the sabbath, you are in error. There is no doubt about it and the word of God convicts you of it.

 

[vic1980]

Exodus 28:43 And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.

‘ō-w-lām

Word Origin

from an unused word
Definition
long duration, antiquity, futurity
NASB Translation
ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

So the Question remains does For ever mean for ever , or it is fullfilled when God point us toward His son Jesus Christ hmm

As long as the Aaronic priesthood continued, or until Christ should arise, made thee high priest, not after the order of Aaron, but after the order of Melchizedek, and should put an end to the priesthood of the former, by answering and fulfilling all the types and shadows of it ?

God Bless

 

[phil112]

....................So the Question remains does For ever mean for ever , or it is fullfilled when God point us toward His son Jesus Christ hmm .....................

The question remains, but it doesn't remain unanswered. See post 31.

 

[prove-all]

Sometimes the "forever" covenant ended without being broken.

Numbers 25:13 "And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel."

This is the Lord's words, but that covenant is no longer in effect.

Hebrews 6:20 "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec"

Christ is now our "forever" high priest. There can be no disputation of that.

are these fore ever still ? does God lie about anything ?


13For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,


-covenent promise,David my servant, to allways have a man to reign.
with the Levites to minister before him allways.

If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night

21Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant,

that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne;
and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.

24Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying,
The two families which the Lord hath chosen, he hath even cast them off?

-not cast off houses of Isreal or Judah

25Thus saith the Lord; If my covenant be not with day and night,
and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will
not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

-promise to Jonadab the son of Rechab,Rechabites, a man to stand before me for ever

18And Jeremiah said unto the house of the Rechabites, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel;
Because ye have obeyed the commandment of Jehonadab your father, and kept all his precepts,
and done according unto all...:

19Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel;
Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before me for ever.

 

[prove-all]

How long is forever in the bible? So much false doctrine is pinned to this word, let's examine it. There will be much to be said, and I have some contributions to make myself, but before I get into all that, let's find out what forever means to some of you. Any takers?

we still have 7 days of week since creation

2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.




The Sabbath will be blessed for ever

 

[prove-all]

yes some folks amuse me also.

The Passover was a foreshadow of things to come.

Christ's crucification was not the anti-type.


"Melchizedek was a type. Christ is the anti-type. "

no he was the real deal

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.​

"The sabbath is a type. Our rest in Christ is the anti-type."

Jesus was anti Sabbath ? I though it was his custom to keep.


"The people that that pact was made for is no longer."

really, so the jews in Jersulam right now are not there because of God ?


But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit,
and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."


so you are not a jew inwardly ? do you get part of Gods covenent with Isreal now ?

you don't follow Gods oracles he gave to jews for us to learn ?

Still no takers? Some of you folks amuse me.

The paschal lamb sacrificed for the Passover is a type. Christ's crucification was the anti-type. In 1 Corinthians 5:7, Paul said "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Melchizedek was a type. Christ is the anti-type.
The type/anti-type analogy is repeated frequently throughout the old and new testaments.
The sabbath is a type. Our rest in Christ is the anti-type.

Exodus 31:16 "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant."
Here is what Adam Clarke said about that scripture: " "A perpetual covenant." - Because it is a sign of this future rest and blessedness, therefore the religious observance of it must be perpetually kept up. The type must continue in force till the antitype come."

The anti-type is here. Forever, pertual, means until such time as it is no more. The people that that pact was made for is no longer. Israel was a type for us. With Christ's kingdom now here, the anti-type is spiritual jews.
Romans 2:28,29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." The law God gave to Israel was a type for the love we have for God and our brothers, the anti-type.

Two things to note.
1. The law and sabbath was never meant for you.
2. The time established for both was fulfilled at the cross.


This condensed study is accurate and rooted entirely in scripture. If you keep the law and or the sabbath, you are in error. There is no doubt about it and the word of God convicts you of it.

 

[phil112]

..............................
"Melchizedek was a type. Christ is the anti-type. "

no he was the real deal...................

It would behoove you to learn about a subject before you starting babbling about it. Type and antitype are real concepts. Saying Melchizedec and Christ are type and antitype does not mean either one of them wasn't "the real deal", whatever you mean by that.

While you're learning, you might want to look at how the old testament is a shadow of the new. Since you don't understand type/antitype you won't understand that either.

 

[prove-all]

1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from t
he slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness,
and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life;
but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


thats the real deal

Christ is anti nothing, he was before

It would behoove you to learn about a subject before you starting babbling about it. Type and antitype are real concepts. Saying Melchizedec and Christ are type and antitype does not mean either one of them wasn't "the real deal", whatever you mean by that.

While you're learning, you might want to look at how the old testament is a shadow of the new. Since you don't understand type/antitype you won't understand that either.

 

[JackH]

How long is forever in the bible? So much false doctrine is pinned to this word, let's examine it.

Isaiah 30:8: "Now go write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever."

"For ever" in that verse is translated from your favorite Hebrew word "yom."

That same "yom" that those who believe the world is around 6,000 years old use to justify their interpretation of Genesis 1.

Is that the false doctrine you are talking about?

 

[phil112]

.......................

Christ is anti nothing, he was before

Christ is new testament. That name is not used in the old. You are simply being argumentative when you say that He was before. Of course He was, but He wasn't bringing gospel to the world before, was He? His position as eternal high priest was not established until His death on the cross. That is what makes Melchizedek his type, and Him the antitype. His preisthood, not His personage, is the type/antitype. Either you don't understand that or you are just nit-picking. Which is it?