Samson did not commit suicide.

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phil112

Guest
#41
.................... To teach that a person can kill themselves and yet be saved is wrong. What is ......................
Then don't teach that. You are saying that God cannot/did not/will not save someone in an instant. You are speaking for God and that is so dangerous. You don't even realize what you are doing.

When you get saved it doesn't take 30 minutes. It doesn't happen overnight, or next week, or over a period of months. It is instantaneous. I know by experience. You're spouting doctrine the bible doesn't even hint at. It is entirely up to God to save who He wants, when He wants, and how He wants.


Stop trying to make it out that I am saying suicide isn't a sin, or that you can kill yourself and go to heaven. I said no such thing. Stop twisting my words, and stop adding to God's words.


Proverbs 30:6 " Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
Revelation 22:18,19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#42
Sampson was a prick - and a brute - but in his brutishness, he still believed God, even if it was for his own means
Samson is a prime example of a believer that ruins his life dia riotious living and YET WAS STILL HEARD BY GOD AS A BELIEVER....

His name pronounced and evaluated brings new light to this man's life...like a shooting star.....burns bright, brilliant, yet fast and fades quickly as it burns out and dies!
 
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phil112

Guest
#43
Samson is a prime example of a believer that ruins his life dia riotious living and YET WAS STILL HEARD BY GOD AS A BELIEVER....

His name pronounced and evaluated brings new light to this man's life...like a shooting star.....burns bright, brilliant, yet fast and fades quickly as it burns out and dies!
Are you telling us this was a "death bed conversion"? You know people that kill themselves don't go to heaven, Dcon. ;)
 
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jkalyna

Guest
#44
Are you telling us this was a "death bed conversion"? You know people that kill themselves don't go to heaven, Dcon. ;)
*I believe this. The Lord says the books will be opened and every man shall be judged upon what he has done. I believe that a believer go straight to heaven, but those who knew the Lord, or did self destruction, will be judged just like it says in the word. *There is a jail, a waiting place, for them, and it is not going straight to heaven, if that were the case, the entire world could destroy themselves, and destruction is not from the Lord, the bible says, satan comes to destroy, and what about the*jihadist, that blow themselves up, it's no different than if someone takes their own life, those who think it's alright, are*wrong, for they will be judged, it's a chance and only up to the Lord God, for he is the Judge, and he makes that decision, but the*jihadist, will not find them selves in the kingdom of God, without entering through Jesus redemption. Period.*
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#45
Are you telling us this was a "death bed conversion"? You know people that kill themselves don't go to heaven, Dcon. ;)
I spoke at my best friends funeral...he whacked himself with a 12 Gauge shotgun...you should have seen the Catholics squirm when I said there was not one verse in the bible that states that a person who commits suicide will go to hell.........!
 
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oldernotwiser

Guest
#46
im not sure why catholics would "squirm" at that. i know many catholic priests who would say the same thing. we are labor, thats a management decision. we might remember that when looking at other "sinners" as well.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#47
Enough, did Stephen commit suicide when He preached the gospel to a hostile crowd?
 
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jkalyna

Guest
#48
I spoke at my best friends funeral...he whacked himself with a 12 Gauge shotgun...you should have seen the Catholics squirm when I said there was not one verse in the bible that states that a person who commits suicide will go to hell.........!
*You know that's tough, we can't take the place of God, no matter how hard we try to be holy, were just humans, and I think we could reach other people by just being what we are humans, and nothing more.
But I don't understand what you wrote, that it's alright to do that.*
 
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oldernotwiser

Guest
#49
Are you telling us this was a "death bed conversion"? You know people that kill themselves don't go to heaven, Dcon. ;)
i think the issue here is: do we know as much about what happened as god does? what brought that person to the point of suicide? were mental health issues involved? what alternatives were there when this choice was made? where was the church as this hopelessness developed in a mans heart? looking at my own life i suspect that there will be a lot of"sinners" called to stand before god not to be judged, but as witnesses to my failure to show gods love when it was desperately needed. all i can do is hold fast to the knowledge of gods love and forgiveness because i know i wont look good.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#50
*You know that's tough, we can't take the place of God, no matter how hard we try to be holy, were just humans, and I think we could reach other people by just being what we are humans, and nothing more.
But I don't understand what you wrote, that it's alright to do that.*


NO
I WAS simply stating a fact of what took place at my friends funeral.....Not saying it is ok to whack yourself as suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.......No verse states verbatim that one goes to hell if they whack themselves....Obviously lost people would go to hell if they killed themselves!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#51
im not sure why catholics would "squirm" at that. i know many catholic priests who would say the same thing. we are labor, thats a management decision. we might remember that when looking at other "sinners" as well.
Just stating facts as the Catholics in the town I grew up in teach you will burn in hell if you whack yourself and many Catholics at that funeral became (agitated) at my above referenced quote.........!
 
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phil112

Guest
#52
Thing is, we just don't know. The one judgement we are to stay away from is the judgement of one's eternal destiny. We only know one person's fate for sure, and that is our own, because we know in our heart what our intentions are. That is where God looks, and that is one thing we, as fleshly humans, cannot see in someone else.

We know God is merciful and long suffering, that He isn't willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentence.

I have looked long and hard at suicide. I have discussed it with many christians, and a lot of them were pastors, men knowledgeable in the bible. God can stop time. The bible tells us that. If a person shoots themselves, then suffers instant regret, who are we to say what happens between them and God? How much time, when it comes to the speed of a bullet matters to God? I say none.

We know that those that wait 'til the 11th hour to repent are skating on thin ice, that we want to discourage everyone from doing that. We want everyone to repent yesterday, to stay away from the edge of that cliff, not see how close to it they can go.

Samson didn't commit suicide, altho he was the instrument of his death. He was going to die, there is no doubt of that. He took himself out of God's protection and the Philistines capitalized immediately. God simply allowed him to die in the manner of his choosing, something few christians get to do.
 
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Kerry

Guest
#53


NO
I WAS simply stating a fact of what took place at my friends funeral.....Not saying it is ok to whack yourself as suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.......No verse states verbatim that one goes to hell if they whack themselves....Obviously lost people would go to hell if they killed themselves!
That's a fine line. To kill yourself is murder. But if you are mentally incoherent, then that's another thing. One would have to know the personal state of a person to come to any conclusion. I'm glad I'm not God.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#54
Judges 16 King James Version (KJV)

1 Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And it was told the Gazites, saying, Samson is come hither. And they compassed him in, and laid wait for him all night in the gate of the city, and were quiet all the night, saying, In the morning, when it is day, we shall kill him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And Samson lay till midnight, and arose at midnight, and took the doors of the gate of the city, and the two posts, and went away with them, bar and all, and put them upon his shoulders, and carried them up to the top of an hill that is before Hebron.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And it came to pass afterward, that he loved a woman in the valley of Sorek, whose name was Delilah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the lords of the Philistines came up unto her, and said unto her, Entice him, and see wherein his great strength lieth, and by what means we may prevail against him, that we may bind him to afflict him; and we will give thee every one of us eleven hundred pieces of silver.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Delilah said to Samson, Tell me, I pray thee, wherein thy great strength lieth, and wherewith thou mightest be bound to afflict thee.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Samson said unto her, If they bind me with seven green withs that were never dried, then shall I be weak, and be as another man.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the lords of the Philistines brought up to her seven green withs which had not been dried, and she bound him with them.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Now there were men lying in wait, abiding with her in the chamber. And she said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he brake the withs, as a thread of tow is broken when it toucheth the fire. So his strength was not known.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And Delilah said unto Samson, Behold, thou hast mocked me, and told me lies: now tell me, I pray thee, wherewith thou mightest be bound.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he said unto her, If they bind me fast with new ropes that never were occupied, then shall I be weak, and be as another man.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Delilah therefore took new ropes, and bound him therewith, and said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And there were liers in wait abiding in the chamber. And he brake them from off his arms like a thread.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Delilah said unto Samson, Hitherto thou hast mocked me, and told me lies: tell me wherewith thou mightest be bound. And he said unto her, If thou weavest the seven locks of my head with the web.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And she fastened it with the pin, and said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awaked out of his sleep, and went away with the pin of the beam, and with the web.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And she said unto him, How canst thou say, I love thee, when thine heart is not with me? thou hast mocked me these three times, and hast not told me wherein thy great strength lieth.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when she pressed him daily with her words, and urged him, so that his soul was vexed unto death;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That he told her all his heart, and said unto her, There hath not come a razor upon mine head; for I have been a Nazarite unto God from my mother's womb: if I be shaven, then my strength will go from me, and I shall become weak, and be like any other man.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when Delilah saw that he had told her all his heart, she sent and called for the lords of the Philistines, saying, Come up this once, for he hath shewed me all his heart. Then the lords of the Philistines came up unto her, and brought money in their hand.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And she made him sleep upon her knees; and she called for a man, and she caused him to shave off the seven locks of his head; and she began to afflict him, and his strength went from him.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And she said, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awoke out of his sleep, and said, I will go out as at other times before, and shake myself. And he wist not that the Lord was departed from him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But the Philistines took him, and put out his eyes, and brought him down to Gaza, and bound him with fetters of brass; and he did grind in the prison house.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Howbeit the hair of his head began to grow again after he was shaven.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Then the lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice: for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And when the people saw him, they praised their god: for they said, Our god hath delivered into our hands our enemy, and the destroyer of our country, which slew many of us.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when their hearts were merry, that they said, Call for Samson, that he may make us sport. And they called for Samson out of the prison house; and he made them sport: and they set him between the pillars.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And Samson said unto the lad that held him by the hand, Suffer me that I may feel the pillars whereupon the house standeth, that I may lean upon them.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Now the house was full of men and women; and all the lords of the Philistines were there; and there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And Samson called unto the Lord, and said, O Lord God, remember me, I pray thee, and strengthen me, I pray thee, only this once, O God, that I may be at once avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then his brethren and all the house of his father came down, and took him, and brought him up, and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the buryingplace of Manoah his father. And he judged Israel twenty years.
 
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jkalyna

Guest
#55
Thing is, we just don't know. The one judgement we are to stay away from is the judgement of one's eternal destiny. We only know one person's fate for sure, and that is our own, because we know in our heart what our intentions are. That is where God looks, and that is one thing we, as fleshly humans, cannot see in someone else.

We know God is merciful and long suffering, that He isn't willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentence.

I have looked long and hard at suicide. I have discussed it with many christians, and a lot of them were pastors, men knowledgeable in the bible. God can stop time. The bible tells us that. If a person shoots themselves, then suffers instant regret, who are we to say what happens between them and God? How much time, when it comes to the speed of a bullet matters to God? I say none.

We know that those that wait 'til the 11th hour to repent are skating on thin ice, that we want to discourage everyone from doing that. We want everyone to repent yesterday, to stay away from the edge of that cliff, not see how close to it they can go.

Samson didn't commit suicide, altho he was the instrument of his death. He was going to die, there is no doubt of that. He took himself out of God's protection and the Philistines capitalized immediately. God simply allowed him to die in the manner of his choosing, something few christians get to do.
*I agree with you we just don't know. EVen that one verse says, if you give a glass of water, to one of these, you will not lose your reward. And with this I am saying good nite. :) A fly has been going on my desk top, annoying, tried to whack him a couple of times, to smart, comes back later,,,*
 

Sec

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
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#56
I will cover the suicide problem in a moment, but first, every story in the Bible was designed by God to illustrate a lesson for those who read it, to learn from. The obvious lesson was, if you don't follow the way of God and do what He directs you too, bad things are gonna happen. The only thing that Samson did, that God told him too, was to let his hair grow long, everything else he didn't do. God gave him fantastic strength, which is something that every man would like to have, but Samson did not do any good with his mighty strength, except kill. God commanded everybody not to kill. Ever since the time of David, the Jeueish (Jewish) people have looked for David to return as their messiah, one who was mighty in war, and could bring the Jeueish tribes together again as one nation, united to defeat their enemies. That is the reason they cannot accept Jesus as the messiah, he was hung on a tree, a humiliating end, not a grand and glorious conquering beginning, which is what Jesus' resurrection was. What God was doing with Samson as their savior, was to show them that mighty strength in one man could not save them from their enemies. He had already shown them that God was the only way they could be saved, when He brought them out of slavery in Egypt. God wrote the Samson story to lead them to seek someone who could remove their hate and prejudice against their enemies, and turn their enemies into their friends, which is what Jesus is in the process of doing.
Now, in order to deal with suicide in the proper light, you have to look at it from God position, when someone dies, their physical body becomes useless, their soul is saved by God for their resurrection, so from God's vantage point, nobody ever dies. therefore, God never looks at death as we do. With God, life goes on forever, with us, life appears to end. Now what is the problem with suicide?
From God's point of view, when we arrive here, God has predestined many trials and tribulations for us to face, to learn to deal with them, and to conquer them. That way, if it ever happens again, we'll have less problems in dealing with it. Occasionally we put our selves in positions similar to Samson, where like him, we don't want to live on, not being able to see. Many people face blindness, and learn to live with it and prosper, Samson gave up, just as Robin Williams did. His strength came from God through the holy Spirit, not from his hair, as thousands of young Jeueish boys learned, as they grew their hair long to be like Samson, and found that it didn't work, just as many American boys found out Popeye's spinach didn't work God had to set Samson up for another set of trials and tribulations in order to get him through the point where suicide is an option, and if you join me in the Revelation of Jesus thread, we will meet Samson again, and find that he did conquer it.
The problem with suicide, is not for the one who commits suicide, at that moment, it will cause trouble later on, as God forces him to face a similar situation and conquer it, but for his parents, who would have been looking to him to help them as they aged, and became frail, it was a real problem. He didn't have a wife and children that depended upon him, but if he had followed the will of God, he would have.
God has one law that covers every other law, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and the dark side of that is, as you do, God will do to you. That is why the Muslims never win a war. They seek to kill and destroy people who just want peace with them, as a result, God always kills and destroys them when they try, now that is suicide. Jeremiah 16:18. And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; What Jeremiah is saying is that they will receive what they have done to others, twice. that is not to punish, but to teach. God has found that if He brings upon someone the same sin they have committed against someone else, twice, that soul sill be committed to never doing the same thing again, and that is the purpose of hell, to make people decide for themselves that they never want to go there again, and most don't. The Hebrew and Greek words translated as forever and eternal, all actually mean a lifetime, not forever, except the ones that deal with heaven, they are spelled differently and do mean forever or eternally.
Don't even consider trying to argue that point, you can't win, God is NOT a sadist, there would be no purpose in torturing people forever, and God has more important things to do than run a permanent hell, all He wants to do is make every soul a perfect spiritual image of Jesus.
So Samson if he actually killed all those people, he would have to live the lives of those he killed, twice, unless God had decided to judge them with a death penalty and used Samson as the executioner, which is the most likely scenario, as well as the lives of their loved ones, for he would have to experience the same loss they did. The same is true for all who commit suicide, they must live the a life where their loved one commits suicide, and have to deal with it. When this is over, twice, they will never think of doing suicide again, they will hate the word suicide.
So, was Samson's death a suicide? it doesn't matter to anyone but Samson and his family, and they conquered any problems it brought about many centuries ago, which you will learn if you join me in the Revelation of Jesus thread.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#57
Then don't teach that. You are saying that God cannot/did not/will not save someone in an instant. You are speaking for God and that is so dangerous. You don't even realize what you are doing.

When you get saved it doesn't take 30 minutes. It doesn't happen overnight, or next week, or over a period of months. It is instantaneous. I know by experience. You're spouting doctrine the bible doesn't even hint at. It is entirely up to God to save who He wants, when He wants, and how He wants.


Stop trying to make it out that I am saying suicide isn't a sin, or that you can kill yourself and go to heaven. I said no such thing. Stop twisting my words, and stop adding to God's words.


Proverbs 30:6 " Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
Revelation 22:18,19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Before you gave me the clear impression that a person could commit suicide and still be saved. Now you are not saying that. Okay. If that is what you mean, then you should have said that clearly from the start. Now, I gotcha. Can we move on or do you want to argue the point some more?

As for the adding to the whole Word of God thing: Again, you are not actually proving your case with the context of Scripture of how exactly I am doing that. Please show me instead of making idle threats. Also, you could be a little more loving, too. You know, that whole fruits of the Spirit thing?
 
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Jul 25, 2013
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#58
I spoke at my best friends funeral...he whacked himself with a 12 Gauge shotgun...you should have seen the Catholics squirm when I said there was not one verse in the bible that states that a person who commits suicide will go to hell.........!
(1 Corinthians 15:2 NIV) By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. If we don't hold firmly we have believed in vain. People can twist that passage to mean whatever they want it to, but it says what it says. If we don't continue in the faith then we believed in vain in the beginning. That is what we cannot know about the person who commits suicide.I will tell you in my opinion when a Christian gets to the point of suicide, it is the mark of a longer battle. Now that battle might have contained things which were beyond the person's free choice such as a disease which might take away their ability to make a clear choice. But if the person is thinking clearly and makes the decision to take their own life, then I think it shows that they are no longer following Christ.This is exactly why I think that the doctrine of once saved always saved is such a dangerous doctrine. It very well might lead a person, like the man in your church, who feels that he is at the end of his rope to commit suicide and believe that God will gladly welcome him into heaven with open arms. If that is true, great, but if (as I think Scripture clearly shows) it is wrong, then many people who thought they were just getting to heaven quicker then God intended were sadly mistaken.Again let's go to Scripture and see what a biblical response to being at the end of our rope is: (2 Corinthians 1:8-11 NIV) [8] We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. [9] Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. [10] He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us

Paul too was at the end of his rope, and when he says he felt the sentence of death and despaired even of life, he is saying the same thing that the person who commits suicide is saying. The difference is that Paul said it with words not actions and in fact then realized this all was to help him learn to lean more fully on the Lord. That is what a true relationship with Christ is all about. He also says that he was greatly helped by the prayers of other believers.Let me restate something, because people often tend to misconstrue what I am saying. I am saying that no one can know for sure what this man's relationship with Christ was at the moment that he took his own life. It is possible that he did not make a clear choice, due to many possible reasons, and I don't believe that God would hold anyone responsible for something that was out of their control. On the other hand, if the man deliberately made the choice to reject what God wanted for his life and 'get to heaven sooner' then God intended even though he knew it was a sin, then I think that it shows he had quit following Christ and had no place in heaven.
 
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Kaycie

Guest
#59
I agree that Samson did not commit suicide- just as Christ did not commit suicide. If you push someone out of the way of a car so that they don't get hit, but you do get hit and die- that is saving someone else's life even though you have to sacrifice your own life to do so (The ultimate love John 15:13). When soldiers in the USA army give their lives to make me free- this is not suicide. Samson was in God's army (as is every one of His children) and willing to live and die for Him. A person who considers suicide is thinking only of them self, and what they want or don't want- not about pleasing God and doing what He wants. The suicidal person is tired of doing good to others or to God, and is thinking only about what others do or don't do for them. But the bible says never get tired of doing good (2Thessalonians 3:13). To take life with God's permission is killing (police, armies, judges), but to take life without His permission is murder (such as in Cain and Abel). Suicide is murder of one's self. But if the decision comes from God and not from one's self- this is not murder. Therefore, Samson did not commit suicide. He was simply in God's army and died in the line of duty.
 
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phil112

Guest
#60
Before you gave me the clear impression that a person could commit suicide and still be saved. Now you are not saying that. ....................
When I am condescinding, you can tell immediately, but your reading comprehension abandons you any other time I am speaking. You should get help with that.

I said, and I repeat, God is the judge of one's eternal destination. If He wants to save someone that kills themself, it will happen. I believe it can happen, but if it does, that will be an exception.

You said it can never happen. That is standing in God's judgement seat, and that is a dangerous thing.

I haven't threatened you. By saying so you have now slipped to the position of trying to kill the messenger because you don't like the message. You should get help with that too. Bearing false witness is a bad thing, you know.