None. My motivation is pleasing God and exalting His goodness. I don't deny Scripture. What's your motivation for denying Scripture so as to defend the idea that Jesus served an intoxicating beverage? Do you think Jesus promoted us in being selfless or in being selfish? For surely my opposition here is in the promotion of something that is in pleasing of people's flesh. It's not that we do not we don't have a liberty in Christ, but the problem I see is that the drink is glorified more than the pure and beautiful miracle itself that is supposed to bring Him glory.
Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.
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This is turning into one of those silly, "l know you are, but what am I" type debates. We should stick to Scripture and stop the accusations. Yes, I ami just as guilty for indulging you. But let's move past this childishness and discuss this like loving and mature Christians.
Again, I never said that a believer under the New Testament couldn't drink alcohol. Also, I believe Jesus drank wines or grape juices that were either freshly squeezed or wines where the fermentation process was haulted and then preserved. I believe this because this was still the time of the Old Testament. For Daniel had refused the king's wine and meat so as not to be defiled (Daniel 1:8). Proverbs 31 says wine is not for kings. Jesus was a king. The OT Scriptures say that to the OT saint that they were not even look at wine when showed that it was alcoholic. The OT Scriptures also says wine is a mocker, and that it can bite you like a serpent. So how exactly did the Son of the Living God or the Word made flesh ignore all these verses and just went ahead and did His own thing (Which would have broken His own Word?).
No chips on my shoulder. Unless of course you were to buy some CVS Pharmacy Macadamian nut white chocolate chip cookies and place them on one my shoulders. Mmmm. Yum. I like those cookies on occasion. My fiancé from Brazil likes a different flavor. Anyways, getting back on topic, I never had anything remotely traumatic happen in my life concerning alcohol. Actually, I drank soberly and in moderation while as a believer but I have chosen to walk the higher road in abstaining as a promise to someone I love.
Again, I never said that a believer under the New Testament couldn't drink alcohol. Also, I believe Jesus drank wines or grape juices that were either freshly squeezed or wines where the fermentation process was haulted and then preserved. I believe this because this was still the time of the Old Testament. For Daniel had refused the king's wine and meat so as not to be defiled (Daniel 1:8). Proverbs 31 says wine is not for kings. Jesus was a king. The OT Scriptures say that to the OT saint that they were not even look at wine when showed that it was alcoholic. The OT Scriptures also says wine is a mocker, and that it can bite you like a serpent. So how exactly did the Son of the Living God or the Word made flesh ignore all these verses and just went ahead and did His own thing (Which would have broken His own Word?).
No chips on my shoulder. Unless of course you were to buy some CVS Pharmacy Macadamian nut white chocolate chip cookies and place them on one my shoulders. Mmmm. Yum. I like those cookies on occasion. My fiancé from Brazil likes a different flavor. Anyways, getting back on topic, I never had anything remotely traumatic happen in my life concerning alcohol. Actually, I drank soberly and in moderation while as a believer but I have chosen to walk the higher road in abstaining as a promise to someone I love.
Dearly beloved friend, you are going on ahead of the HOLY BIBLE written Holy Scripture.
If that is the case what you have shared about Mother Mary is true, than there would have been a twist in the Gospel that the Jews stoned Mary for fornication and the fate of JESUS?
The Jews did not tolerate such sin and uncleanliness in their community, as according to the Law of Moses..
If that is the case what you have shared about Mother Mary is true, than there would have been a twist in the Gospel that the Jews stoned Mary for fornication and the fate of JESUS?
The Jews did not tolerate such sin and uncleanliness in their community, as according to the Law of Moses..
You were the one that suggested that it offered relief of pain - that is what I was correcting. And usually when you "taste" of something, it goes down your throat - I am not going to argue this point with you.
Jesus drank wine during His ministry!! But I do not believe that He became drunk. I do believe, however, that the wine that he gave the guests at Cana was fermented, as it was intended to be A SIGN. You confuse following the LAW with listening to a direct command from God. If God tells you to do something, regardless of what the written Law says, to not do it, is a sin.
You will notice that the Law said not to Kill/Murder, but when God sent the Israelites into Amalek, He said to kill everyone. I know that you will try to manipulate meaning here, but the fact is that we should do whatever God tells us to do, once we are made aware that it is God that speaks!!! And Jesus knew the will of His Father.
Jesus drank wine during His ministry!! But I do not believe that He became drunk. I do believe, however, that the wine that he gave the guests at Cana was fermented, as it was intended to be A SIGN. You confuse following the LAW with listening to a direct command from God. If God tells you to do something, regardless of what the written Law says, to not do it, is a sin.
You will notice that the Law said not to Kill/Murder, but when God sent the Israelites into Amalek, He said to kill everyone. I know that you will try to manipulate meaning here, but the fact is that we should do whatever God tells us to do, once we are made aware that it is God that speaks!!! And Jesus knew the will of His Father.
Yes, this is called willing to admit when you are wrong when confronted with the truth. "Standing Firm in Christ" had helped to show me the passage more clearly and I humbled myself to accept what the verse actually said (And not what I would want it to say). In other words, I have shown many folks here passages to defend my view. The Scriptural evidence is overwhelming that Jesus did not make intoxicating wine. But people have ignored these verses and they see what they want to see (And make false accusations or personal attacks against me).
I believe it was wine, too. It was just fresh new wine from the cluster of the grape that was non intoxicating. Formenting? Most likely, yes. But was it fully formented and or highly alcoholic? No.
Uh, no. If for a second, Jesus broke any of the Laws then He could not fulfill the Old Testament Law upon the cross so as to be our substitute. Also, God does not make Laws so He can break them, either. God has Laws because He is righteous and they are His standard of what is good to Him.
Murder is not the same thing as executing God's Judgments by His Command. One is selfishly motivated and the other is selflessly motivated because it is trusting in God. For example: If a person kills themselves it would be suicide. This is selfish. However, if a person takes a bullet for their best friend so as to save them then they are being selfless. Both actions can appear to be similar but they are very different (I assure you).
Also, God would never give a command that would contradict His Holy Law He has established. Can God change the Laws? Yes He can. In fact, He did so when Jesus died upon the cross and fulfilled the Law of Moses. But that does not mean God eliminated all forms of Laws or justice, though. There are still the moral laws or the Law of love which exists in the New Testament.
I believe it was wine, too. It was just fresh new wine from the cluster of the grape that was non intoxicating. Formenting? Most likely, yes. But was it fully formented and or highly alcoholic? No.
Uh, no. If for a second, Jesus broke any of the Laws then He could not fulfill the Old Testament Law upon the cross so as to be our substitute. Also, God does not make Laws so He can break them, either. God has Laws because He is righteous and they are His standard of what is good to Him.
Murder is not the same thing as executing God's Judgments by His Command. One is selfishly motivated and the other is selflessly motivated because it is trusting in God. For example: If a person kills themselves it would be suicide. This is selfish. However, if a person takes a bullet for their best friend so as to save them then they are being selfless. Both actions can appear to be similar but they are very different (I assure you).
Also, God would never give a command that would contradict His Holy Law He has established. Can God change the Laws? Yes He can. In fact, He did so when Jesus died upon the cross and fulfilled the Law of Moses. But that does not mean God eliminated all forms of Laws or justice, though. There are still the moral laws or the Law of love which exists in the New Testament.
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It is written...
Isaiah 5:20-24
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."
Isaiah 5:20-24
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."
You are correct, He didn't contribute or lead people into sin, they do this all on their own. God gave us fire also, some people keep warm with it and some commit to burning homes and people alive in it. Nope, God don't contribute or lead people into sin. It's good to tell people the dangers of sin and how it can creep up on us by opening the door to it, but alcohol in and of it self can be a blessing if you are wise enough to see the blessing in it.
Jeremiah 51:39
“When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up,” declares the Lord.
I know that you will claim that there is some kind of reasoning that makes this statement void. But "I will make them drunk...declares the Lord"!!! This is a sign of impending judgment. This is the reason that Jesus gave fermented wine and according to John, He immediately follows with cleansing the Temple.
It is the same as hardening the heart of Pharaoh after he had already hardened his heart on his own.
“When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up,” declares the Lord.
I know that you will claim that there is some kind of reasoning that makes this statement void. But "I will make them drunk...declares the Lord"!!! This is a sign of impending judgment. This is the reason that Jesus gave fermented wine and according to John, He immediately follows with cleansing the Temple.
It is the same as hardening the heart of Pharaoh after he had already hardened his heart on his own.
Another cult tactic, make out the person is up to tricks and clever shenanigans in underhanded attempt to prove a point, well sorry that is not the case, that is born out of paranioa and the delusion that King James is right and everything else is wrong.
Everything in the world can be used for bad and evil. I can drink alcohol and enjoy it and not get intoxicated, Children in Europe especially France are given wine to drink at meal times, but it is watered down, which is how people used to drink it 2000 years ago, which I have commented on countless times.
As I consume drink in moderation, it is not a problem, do you not think that the HOly SPirit would have screamed at me to put the drink down? It is the same when it comes to reading the King James, I have not been told that I should give up all other versions, only humans like yourself have told me that, so who am I to agree with, GOd or Holy Spirit?
Before you say "well this is what God says in the Bible", sure, but where does God say directly in the King James that no other Bibles should be read apart from this? it dosn't, it also does not say alcahol is evil ,it just says getting drunk and addiction of drink is wrong. Anything else is your interpretation of it, often twisted to your own agenda, such as abstaining from drink and in order to prevent the King James Onlyist house of cards from crashing down.
Everything in the world can be used for bad and evil. I can drink alcohol and enjoy it and not get intoxicated, Children in Europe especially France are given wine to drink at meal times, but it is watered down, which is how people used to drink it 2000 years ago, which I have commented on countless times.
As I consume drink in moderation, it is not a problem, do you not think that the HOly SPirit would have screamed at me to put the drink down? It is the same when it comes to reading the King James, I have not been told that I should give up all other versions, only humans like yourself have told me that, so who am I to agree with, GOd or Holy Spirit?
Before you say "well this is what God says in the Bible", sure, but where does God say directly in the King James that no other Bibles should be read apart from this? it dosn't, it also does not say alcahol is evil ,it just says getting drunk and addiction of drink is wrong. Anything else is your interpretation of it, often twisted to your own agenda, such as abstaining from drink and in order to prevent the King James Onlyist house of cards from crashing down.
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But do they? God gave us ability to make alcohol it is a gift to us, but like all things we have abused it and Satan has taken it. Scientific studies are showing how much of a benefit drinking in moderation can be, drinking a unit or two of alcohol each day, especially with a meal is moderation, not getting drunk, which is the sin.
From the Medical Daily 7 Health Benefits Of Drinking Alcohol
BBC News - Alcohol in moderation 'can help prevent heart disease'
From the Medical Daily 7 Health Benefits Of Drinking Alcohol
- Lower Your Risk Of Cardiovascular Disease
- Lengthen Your Life
- Helps Prevent Against the Common Cold
- Decrease Chances Of Developing Dementia
- Reduce The Risk Of Gallstones
- Lowers The Chance Of Diabetes
BBC News - Alcohol in moderation 'can help prevent heart disease'
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With this post you are encouraging people to consume alcoholic beverages for the promotion of good health. Are you trying to tell others that we can not promote good health in other ways without consuming alcoholic beverages? The risk of consuming alcohol long term is not as beneficial as you think nor short term with how it can effect the neurotransmitters between brain cells and put the individual in a state that can compromise conviction, lower restraints and lead to making bad decisions and misguided judgments. The earlier in life this is promoted the greater effect is has short and long term and that would involve the soul and body of a person.