Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[GaryA]

As far as what I believe about being born again, I cannot re-enter my mother's womb to be born a second time and the only other theory I see being born again is if I die and get reincarnated.

John 3:

[SUP]1[/SUP] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: [SUP]2[/SUP] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. [SUP]3[/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[SUP]4[/SUP] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [SUP]5[/SUP] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [SUP]6[/SUP] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7[/SUP] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. [SUP]8[/SUP] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.


Jesus said that one must be born of water ( flesh - physical birth ) and of the Spirit ( spiritual birth, by the Holy Spirit ).

If one is not born-again, they are not a [ real ] Christian. I say this with specific regard to salvation -- i.e., one must be born-again to be saved; one must be saved to be a [ real ] Christian.

Being born-again is the 'base-level defining characteristic' of a [ true ] Christian.

 

[GaryA]

I know the Linux operating system is born again because it has the BASH shell (Bourne Again Shell).

Yes - the name is a play of words on the original 'Bourne' shell... ( 'sh' )

"In a way, it makes for a good illustration --- Linux was born of a 'better spirit' ( i.e., it is a real operating system ) -- MS Windows has always been dead..."

haha

 

[RuggedFaith]

Jesus said, "Here I am! I stand at the door of your heart and knock.
If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in...(Revelation 3:20).

Son of Mary's Prayer for Everyone

JESUS, be merciful to me a sinner. Come into my heart and life and be my Lord and Saviour.
Create in me a new heart that desires to follow you all the days of my life. Draw me close to you
in the Holy Sacraments, Prayers of Faith and confession of my sins. Teach me eternal wisdom
that I may grow in faith for your word is truth. LORD, you alone are the Holy One, Most High,
Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. By faith I pray, Amen.

 

[didymos]

Jesus said, "Here I am! I stand at the door of your heart and knock.
If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in...(Revelation 3:20).

Son of Mary's Prayer for Everyone (...)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
[SUP]33 [/SUP]“Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! [SUP]35
[/SUP]Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

(Mark 3: 31-35 / NIV)

 

[cfultz3]

Son of Mary's Prayer for Everyone

Should that not be: Son of God's Prayer for everyone, seeing that it was God who sent Him?

Did He not respond that whosoever does His will is His mother, etc.....

Say that my name is Sue and I do His will, can I not then say of Him: Son of Sue?

 

[RuggedFaith]

May you be truly blessed with this prayer that has been blessed by Fr. Francisco.

Jesus said, "Here I am!" I stand at the door of your heart and knock. If you hear My voice and invite Me,
I will come in...(Revelation 3:20).

Son of Mary's Prayer

Jesus, be merciful to me a sinner. Come into my heart and life and be my Lord and Saviour.
Create in me a new heart that desires to follow You all the days of my life. Draw me close to
You in the Holy Sacraments and Prayers of Faith and confession of my sins. Teach me eternal
wisdom that I may grow in faith for Your Word is truth. LORD, You alone are the Holy One,
Most High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. By faith I pray,
AMEN.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God - not by your works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[notuptome]

May you be truly blessed with this prayer that has been blessed by Fr. Francisco.

Jesus said, "Here I am!" I stand at the door of your heart and knock. If you hear My voice and invite Me,
I will come in...(Revelation 3:20).

Son of Mary's Prayer

Jesus, be merciful to me a sinner. Come into my heart and life and be my Lord and Saviour.
Create in me a new heart that desires to follow You all the days of my life. Draw me close to
You in the Holy Sacraments and Prayers of Faith and confession of my sins. Teach me eternal
wisdom that I may grow in faith for Your Word is truth. LORD, You alone are the Holy One,
Most High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit, in the glory of God the Father. By faith I pray,
AMEN.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God - not by your works, so that no one can boast (Ephesians 2:8-9).

You are transliterating what Jesus said. Jesus said to the seven churches I stand at the door and knock. Which one of the seven represents Rome? Will Rome open to the Savior and allow Him to enter? When Jesus enters He is the central focus of everything. Would the pope share?

Rome teaches lofty words and denies the essential truth taught in Gods word. The sacraments provide no saving grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ThomistColin]

You are transliterating what Jesus said. Jesus said to the seven churches I stand at the door and knock. Which one of the seven represents Rome? Will Rome open to the Savior and allow Him to enter? When Jesus enters He is the central focus of everything. Would the pope share?

Rome teaches lofty words and denies the essential truth taught in Gods word. The sacraments provide no saving grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And you are ignoring that for almost two thousand years, that verse has been used to speak of mankind. We deny no essential truth. And the sacraments do provide grace imparted through Christ.

 

[notuptome]

And you are ignoring that for almost two thousand years, that verse has been used to speak of mankind. We deny no essential truth. And the sacraments do provide grace imparted through Christ.

Practice makes permanent perfect practice make perfect. Jesus said what He said and if you do not understand it in context that does not change what He said or to whom He said it.

There is not one shred of scripture that supports the contention that grace is received through the sacraments. Especially the perverted sacraments of romanism. Trans substantiation is a doctrine that ranks right up there with the worst rome has to offer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ThomistColin]

Practice makes permanent perfect practice make perfect. Jesus said what He said and if you do not understand it in context that does not change what He said or to whom He said it.

There is not one shred of scripture that supports the contention that grace is received through the sacraments. Especially the perverted sacraments of romanism. Trans substantiation is a doctrine that ranks right up there with the worst rome has to offer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Its sad that you ignore Paul when he said, "He who does not discern the body and blood of our Lord, eats and drinks condemnation upon themselves."

 

[didymos]

Its sad that you ignore Paul when he said, "He who does not discern the body and blood of our Lord, eats and drinks condemnation upon themselves."

Apparently you were to lazy to mention the source (1 Cor 11:29). Also this verse is taken completely out of context; it's about people who are unworthy to partake in the Lord's Supper and/or misbehave while doing so (v. 27). Paul clearly explains what we celebrate at the Lord's Supper, we 'proclaim the Lord's death until he comes' (v.26), and he quotes the Lord himself where He says: 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me'(v.24) and 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me' (v.23). So the keyword here is 'remembrance' (ἀνάμνησις); bread and wine are mere symbols of the Lord, that help us to remember His death and sacrifice for us. It's a solemn affair, that's why Paul urges 'Everyone (...) to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup'(v. 28). So 'condemnation' doesn't come from denying (the magical trick of) transubstantiation, but from celebrating the Lord's Supper when you're not worthy to do so. Since 'Jesus Christ and Him crucified' (1 Cor 2:2) forms the basis of our christian faith, the condemnation (of the unworthy) makes sense.

(Quotes from the NIV)

 

[ThomistColin]

Apparently you were to lazy to mention the source (1 Cor 11:29). Also this verse is taken completely out of context; it's about people who are unworthy to partake in the Lord's Supper and/or misbehave while doing so (v. 27). Paul clearly explains what we celebrate at the Lord's Supper, we 'proclaim the Lord's death until he comes' (v.26), and he quotes the Lord himself where He says: 'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me'(v.24) and 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me' (v.23). So the keyword here is 'remembrance' (ἀνάμνησις); bread and wine are mere symbols of the Lord, that help us to remember His death and sacrifice for us. It's a solemn affair, that's why Paul urges 'Everyone (...) to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup'(v. 28). So 'condemnation' doesn't come from denying (the magical trick of) transubstantiation, but from celebrating the Lord's Supper when you're not worthy to do so. Since 'Jesus Christ and Him crucified' (1 Cor 2:2) forms the basis of our christian faith, the condemnation (of the unworthy) makes sense.

(Quotes from the NIV)

And yet that interpretation ignores two things, the fact that drinking and eating unworthily is a sin against Christ's body and blood (why would only a symbol do so) and more blatant, Paul's comment on discerning the body and blood when eaten and drunk. Majority of the world's Christians believe in the Literal Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The Church believed this for almost two thousand years. As far back as 115 AD, its mentioned and supported by Justin Martyr. The Orthodox, Catholics, Coptics, Lutherans, and most of the Anglican Communion hold this doctrine.

 

[didymos]

And yet that interpretation ignores two things, the fact that drinking and eating unworthily is a sin against Christ's body and blood (why would only a symbol do so) and more blatant, Paul's comment on discerning the body and blood when eaten and drunk.

Read my post again: I think I did cover both 'things.'

Majority of the world's Christians believe in the Literal Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The Church believed this for almost two thousand years. As far back as 115 AD, its mentioned and supported by Justin Martyr. The Orthodox, Catholics, Coptics, Lutherans, and most of the Anglican Communion hold this doctrine.

That a belief is held by a majority, and/ or for 100's of years doesn't make it right by definition. Also the 'churches' mentioned can't all be considered christian. Justin Martyr can say whatever he wants: it still isn't scripture.

 

[Last]

Read my post again: I think I did cover both 'things.'



That a belief is held by a majority, and/ or for 100's of years doesn't make it right by definition. Also the 'churches' mentioned can't all be considered christian. Justin Martyr can say whatever he wants: it still isn't scripture.

No, if something popped up in the 1000s, 1500s, or 2000s, and was never believed before, then you know it is a bunch of nonsense.

 

[didymos]

No, if something popped up in the 1000s, 1500s, or 2000s, and was never believed before, then you know it is a bunch of nonsense.

fyi: YOUR nonsense is now being ignored

 

[Last]

So you have nothing to defend your position with?

 

[ThomistColin]

Read my post again: I think I did cover both 'things.'



That a belief is held by a majority, and/ or for 100's of years doesn't make it right by definition. Also the 'churches' mentioned can't all be considered christian. Justin Martyr can say whatever he wants: it still isn't scripture.

Even if you ignore Catholicism (1.2 billion Christians, what a pompous man you are there), you are still left with over 60% of Christianity believing in the literal presence of Christ. You want to say that numbers don't matter, but sorry they do. Jesus does not lead astray 60% of His flock.

 

[notuptome]

Its sad that you ignore Paul when he said, "He who does not discern the body and blood of our Lord, eats and drinks condemnation upon themselves."

It is sad that someone who professes to be holy is so quick to condemn another. Discerning the Lords body is not imputing literal presence to symbolic elements.

Gods grace is perfect and complete. Gods grace saves entirely and eternally. No sacraments need to be added to perfect Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Even if you ignore Catholicism (1.2 billion Christians, what a pompous man you are there), you are still left with over 60% of Christianity believing in the literal presence of Christ. You want to say that numbers don't matter, but sorry they do. Jesus does not lead astray 60% of His flock.

You assume that you know who is the flock. How presumptuous of you. Big number do not make for right. Just look at the Muslims. The world is full of religious people who are hopelessly lost. Many trust their religion to save them but only Gods grace can save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ThomistColin]

You assume that you know who is the flock. How presumptuous of you. Big number do not make for right. Just look at the Muslims. The world is full of religious people who are hopelessly lost. Many trust their religion to save them but only Gods grace can save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Actually, by definition, you are being presumptuous to claim your "newer" interpretation is true and that the older one isn't.