The Shooting of Michael Brown
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A
And, as usual, Kenneth you are making false assertions. St Louis police weren't called in to assist the Ferguson police department because the Ferguson police department is corrupt to the point they can no longer police Ferguson, MO. That's an outright lie.
The St Louis police were called in to assist the Ferguson police department because the rioting and looting required additional manpower. The Governor even called in the MO National Guard on a limited bases to protect the command center in the Westfall shopping center.
You're constantly twisting and omitting truth to fit your script, something ironically you falsely accused me of doing earlier. Pull the log out of your own eye Kenneth.
The St Louis police were called in to assist the Ferguson police department because the rioting and looting required additional manpower. The Governor even called in the MO National Guard on a limited bases to protect the command center in the Westfall shopping center.
You're constantly twisting and omitting truth to fit your script, something ironically you falsely accused me of doing earlier. Pull the log out of your own eye Kenneth.
A
This one works: ‘A dozen witnesses’ say Ferguson teen attacked cop before shooting | New York Post
Here's one of those witnesses accounts:
"The cop encountered Brown and his pal Dorian Johnson walking down the middle of a street, pulled up and ordered them onto the sidewalk.
Wilson then noticed the pair were carrying cigars, and had heard the report of the robbery and recognized the pair as possible suspects.
'And he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know, those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them,' Josie said.
Wilson, she said, 'tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.
And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and then Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off,' Josie said.
Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So he stands up and yells, ‘Freeze!’ Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him... And then all the sudden he just started bum-rushing him. He just started coming at him full speed,” she told the station.
'So [Wilson] really thinks [Brown] was on something, because he just kept coming. It was unbelievable. And so he finally ended up, the final shot was in the forehead, and then he fell about two to three feet in front of the officer,' she said."
Here's one of those witnesses accounts:
"The cop encountered Brown and his pal Dorian Johnson walking down the middle of a street, pulled up and ordered them onto the sidewalk.
Wilson then noticed the pair were carrying cigars, and had heard the report of the robbery and recognized the pair as possible suspects.
'And he’s looking at them and they got something in their hands and it looks like it could be what, you know, those cigars or whatever. So he goes in reverse back to them,' Josie said.
Wilson, she said, 'tries to get out of his car. They slam his door shut violently. I think he said Michael did. And then he opened the car again. He tried to get out. He stands up.
And then Michael just bum-rushes him and shoves him back into his car. Punches him in the face and then Darren grabs for his gun. Michael grabbed for the gun. At one point he got the gun entirely turned against his hip. And he shoves it away. And the gun goes off,' Josie said.
Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So he stands up and yells, ‘Freeze!’ Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him... And then all the sudden he just started bum-rushing him. He just started coming at him full speed,” she told the station.
'So [Wilson] really thinks [Brown] was on something, because he just kept coming. It was unbelievable. And so he finally ended up, the final shot was in the forehead, and then he fell about two to three feet in front of the officer,' she said."
Peaceful Protesters? Grand Juries? Legal Reform Needed
IMHO:
PEACEFUL PROTESTERS?
Last time I knew it was illegal to disturb the peace and block streets.
Now how are people "peaceful protestors" who are raising a commotion and congregating in streets, blocking traffic, terrorizing shop-keepers, and persons not of their race? IMHO, the mob in Ferguson is a lynch mob. Hardly any are peaceful protesters. People illegally parading and congregating in streets, are not "peaceful protesters."
Wicked Judgmental Lynch-Promoters
Is there any justification for a mob to go out and raise a noise demanding a policeman be charged with murder before the evidence has come out? I think not. I think this is a very wicked activity. Certainly it is not loving neighbor as self. Who wants to be demonized before the evidence is presented? Does anyone stop & put himself in the shoes of the policeman? Is he not entitled to a presumption of innocence?
Perhaps the Policeman should have gotten on camera at the start, to show his beaten body.
WHY DIDN'T THE COP DO THIS OR THAT?
If it is true (and evidence is still needed) that the cop was beaten badly, with a broken eye-orbit, how can anyone judge him for any self-protective action he did? How can anyone demand that he had to have acted altogether wise and rational? If a man is beaten very badly, how can he think straight? He may not have even been able to see straight.
GRAND JURIES
We need legal reform, serious reform in the Criminal Justice System. We have innocent persons convicted, and the guilty getting off free. We have this process whereby the Grand Jury is nullified, the prosecutor being able to circumvent the Grand Jury and ignore it. The Grand Jury should protect a man against unjust prosecutions. The moment a man is prosecuted for a felony, he is already punished, without any trial. Even if he will be eventually found "non guilty," he is in essence fined a huge fine. He may have million dollar legal fees; this amounts to a fine on an innocent man, a very severe punishment. He may sit in jail for a long time, unable to make bail; and if he gets a bail bondsman, he is likely to lose 10 percent of the bail regardless of what happens, the fee for the bail bondsman. Lawyers can play legal games while the accused sits in jail for months not convicted of anything. Such a man is never "made whole."
At the same time, the taxpayers also fork out huge amounts of money in housing, feeding, clothing, providing recreation, and free medical services. I understand that now it costs the state a million dollars to try a capital offense.
REFORM NEEDED:
The laws need changing, probably back to what they used to be: No one should be indicted without a grand jury voting a true bill on it. And a grand jury should be required for all but the most trivial alleged offenses. No special prosecutors should be brought in to give the state a better chance of getting a conviction.
No Double Jeopardy:
It is a travesty of injustice to try a man twice for the same alleged misbehavior, first calling it by one name, then by a second name for a 2nd trial, as for example trying a man for assault, then when he is voted non-guilty by a state jury, then re-trying the case in federal court as "violation of civil rights." And there should not be a crime which is defined by the race of the alleged victim, as when an assault on one race can be called "violation of civil rights," but not when it is an assault on a person of another race.
OCHLOCHCRACY
As the ancient writer Polybius pointed out, Democracy can degenerate into ochlochracy, a very bad form of govt.
IMHO:
PEACEFUL PROTESTERS?
Last time I knew it was illegal to disturb the peace and block streets.
Now how are people "peaceful protestors" who are raising a commotion and congregating in streets, blocking traffic, terrorizing shop-keepers, and persons not of their race? IMHO, the mob in Ferguson is a lynch mob. Hardly any are peaceful protesters. People illegally parading and congregating in streets, are not "peaceful protesters."
Wicked Judgmental Lynch-Promoters
Is there any justification for a mob to go out and raise a noise demanding a policeman be charged with murder before the evidence has come out? I think not. I think this is a very wicked activity. Certainly it is not loving neighbor as self. Who wants to be demonized before the evidence is presented? Does anyone stop & put himself in the shoes of the policeman? Is he not entitled to a presumption of innocence?
Perhaps the Policeman should have gotten on camera at the start, to show his beaten body.
WHY DIDN'T THE COP DO THIS OR THAT?
If it is true (and evidence is still needed) that the cop was beaten badly, with a broken eye-orbit, how can anyone judge him for any self-protective action he did? How can anyone demand that he had to have acted altogether wise and rational? If a man is beaten very badly, how can he think straight? He may not have even been able to see straight.
GRAND JURIES
We need legal reform, serious reform in the Criminal Justice System. We have innocent persons convicted, and the guilty getting off free. We have this process whereby the Grand Jury is nullified, the prosecutor being able to circumvent the Grand Jury and ignore it. The Grand Jury should protect a man against unjust prosecutions. The moment a man is prosecuted for a felony, he is already punished, without any trial. Even if he will be eventually found "non guilty," he is in essence fined a huge fine. He may have million dollar legal fees; this amounts to a fine on an innocent man, a very severe punishment. He may sit in jail for a long time, unable to make bail; and if he gets a bail bondsman, he is likely to lose 10 percent of the bail regardless of what happens, the fee for the bail bondsman. Lawyers can play legal games while the accused sits in jail for months not convicted of anything. Such a man is never "made whole."
At the same time, the taxpayers also fork out huge amounts of money in housing, feeding, clothing, providing recreation, and free medical services. I understand that now it costs the state a million dollars to try a capital offense.
REFORM NEEDED:
The laws need changing, probably back to what they used to be: No one should be indicted without a grand jury voting a true bill on it. And a grand jury should be required for all but the most trivial alleged offenses. No special prosecutors should be brought in to give the state a better chance of getting a conviction.
No Double Jeopardy:
It is a travesty of injustice to try a man twice for the same alleged misbehavior, first calling it by one name, then by a second name for a 2nd trial, as for example trying a man for assault, then when he is voted non-guilty by a state jury, then re-trying the case in federal court as "violation of civil rights." And there should not be a crime which is defined by the race of the alleged victim, as when an assault on one race can be called "violation of civil rights," but not when it is an assault on a person of another race.
OCHLOCHCRACY
As the ancient writer Polybius pointed out, Democracy can degenerate into ochlochracy, a very bad form of govt.
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That wasn't the case when I found it because I sure wouldn't pay. My apologies. Here's a Washington Post link:
K
I live in Missouri...................
I get the local reports as well as the national, St. Louis county was called in because of the peaceful protestors and news crews kept coming out in the news saying how mistreated and unlawful force was being used against them.
St. Louis county was called in to take over and access the situation of the reports of misuse of force.
The national guard was called in because of the looting and rioting getting out of hand.
K
Yeah lets use a writer from the New York post for information.
When she herself ( writer ) said that she got her information from the police.
Of course police will give reports to say people are collaborating their story.
Christine Byers ✔ @ChristineDByers Follow Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop's version of events in shooting #Ferguson
9:30 PM - 18 Aug 2014
There are at least 6 witnesses that I have seen on the news that are against the police report, and collaborate against the officer.
Wake up & smell da coffee, people!!!
TWO black men each rob a store for next to nothin, Then stands out in the streets waiting for trouble. The 2nd guy goes right out in front of the store, pacing & anxious, waiting for the cops to show up!! When they do, he pulls out a knife & charges them? REALLY? Since when does ANY NORMAL CRIMINAL DO THAT?
THIS ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS IT LOOKS! In my opinion, these men didn't seem to have any normal sense about themselves. This isn't normal behavior, thug or otherwise.
PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE MILITARY HAS BEEN TRAINING 30 DAYS BEFORE THIS ON HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST BLACK AMERICANS BEFORE AN ACTUAL RIOT STARTS? This seems to be scripted, planned in advance. Does anyone besides me see this?
Here's the scenario:
1. troops are trained in July
2. Unusual behavior by these 2 black men..... one keeps charging after being shot in the arm 4 TIMES! He doesn't go into shock, neither does his instincts take over, causing him to run for his life. The other WAITS for the cops for no good reason & charges 2 cops with pistols drawn...... NOOOOO.....that's not normal. These guys had to be programmed.
3. Neither guy has mind altering drugs in his system.
4. The media plays this like a 3 ring circus to stir people up....& it works.
What's next..... Riots in the streets, with the military present to practice? Is FEMA getting ready declare a national emergency? Or they practicing for martial law?
U.S. Military Training to Fight Black Americans in Black Communities - Lifestyle - Stoughton, Massachusetts | Patch
TWO black men each rob a store for next to nothin, Then stands out in the streets waiting for trouble. The 2nd guy goes right out in front of the store, pacing & anxious, waiting for the cops to show up!! When they do, he pulls out a knife & charges them? REALLY? Since when does ANY NORMAL CRIMINAL DO THAT?
THIS ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS IT LOOKS! In my opinion, these men didn't seem to have any normal sense about themselves. This isn't normal behavior, thug or otherwise.
PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE MILITARY HAS BEEN TRAINING 30 DAYS BEFORE THIS ON HOW TO FIGHT AGAINST BLACK AMERICANS BEFORE AN ACTUAL RIOT STARTS? This seems to be scripted, planned in advance. Does anyone besides me see this?
Here's the scenario:
1. troops are trained in July
2. Unusual behavior by these 2 black men..... one keeps charging after being shot in the arm 4 TIMES! He doesn't go into shock, neither does his instincts take over, causing him to run for his life. The other WAITS for the cops for no good reason & charges 2 cops with pistols drawn...... NOOOOO.....that's not normal. These guys had to be programmed.
3. Neither guy has mind altering drugs in his system.
4. The media plays this like a 3 ring circus to stir people up....& it works.
What's next..... Riots in the streets, with the military present to practice? Is FEMA getting ready declare a national emergency? Or they practicing for martial law?
U.S. Military Training to Fight Black Americans in Black Communities - Lifestyle - Stoughton, Massachusetts | Patch
K
Yeah I saw that video.
And the man had a knife, but in the video it does not show him running at the officers.
The video I saw showed him walking in a manner that he was walking to go around the officers.
He was disobeying the direct order to drop the knife, and they stopped the video just as the shooting started.
At that point he still was not charging at the officers.
And the man had a knife, but in the video it does not show him running at the officers.
The video I saw showed him walking in a manner that he was walking to go around the officers.
He was disobeying the direct order to drop the knife, and they stopped the video just as the shooting started.
At that point he still was not charging at the officers.
David, I think it is reprehensible you started this thread, about a country you are not a citizen of, and an incident which you used to bait people. Deal with your own country's issues first, and state your views, and stop taunting people!
You should have waited till an American posted, then briefly stated your opinion. You are an opportunist, who mocks a horrible situation. You are certainly part of the problem, not the solution!!
After reading 18 pages in this thread, I am no further ahead in understanding what happened. However, it seems the riots and aftermath shows the US is still struggling with the same issues which existed in 1965 in Watts (I was living in Oregon at the time!) and the riots in Detroit, Newark and 21 other cites in 1967. Here is an excellent article on this problem, which has actually been happening on and off since 1919.
From Watts in 1965 to Ferguson today, lessons on race left unlearned - The Washington Post
"One of the first witnesses called by the Kerner Commission was a distinguished scholar named Kenneth B. Clark. He told the panel that he read several reports on past disturbances, including one on the 1919 race riot in Chicago, “and it is as if I were reading the report of the investigating committee of the Harlem riot of ’35, the report of the investigating committee on the Harlem riot of ’43, the report of the McCone Commission on the Watts riot."
Kudos to biscuit and a few others who actual posted about how Christians should respond according to the Bible! I just pray that the lessons can be learned after this tragedy, but my thought is this is never going to end until Jesus returns!
You should have waited till an American posted, then briefly stated your opinion. You are an opportunist, who mocks a horrible situation. You are certainly part of the problem, not the solution!!
After reading 18 pages in this thread, I am no further ahead in understanding what happened. However, it seems the riots and aftermath shows the US is still struggling with the same issues which existed in 1965 in Watts (I was living in Oregon at the time!) and the riots in Detroit, Newark and 21 other cites in 1967. Here is an excellent article on this problem, which has actually been happening on and off since 1919.
From Watts in 1965 to Ferguson today, lessons on race left unlearned - The Washington Post
"One of the first witnesses called by the Kerner Commission was a distinguished scholar named Kenneth B. Clark. He told the panel that he read several reports on past disturbances, including one on the 1919 race riot in Chicago, “and it is as if I were reading the report of the investigating committee of the Harlem riot of ’35, the report of the investigating committee on the Harlem riot of ’43, the report of the McCone Commission on the Watts riot."
Kudos to biscuit and a few others who actual posted about how Christians should respond according to the Bible! I just pray that the lessons can be learned after this tragedy, but my thought is this is never going to end until Jesus returns!
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K
No its not normal.
I just get annoyed when some want to go and justified misuse of power that cops have been well known to do, and even in the protests that are going on in Ferguson they have done.
Peaceful protestors ( freedom of speech ) - have every right to stand their and protest peacefully
Ferguson police fired rubber bullets and tear gas at them. Last night another Ferguson cop was pulled aside by a St. Louis county officer and then later put on suspension for pointing a gun at a peaceful protestor and telling them he would kill them.
News reports ( freedom of speech again ) - have every right to stand off to the side not part of the protest and report what they see.
Ferguson police still fired tear gas at them even though they identified themselves three times to the cops.
Another news crew forced out of McDonalds when they were not doing nothing but sitting in there recharging equipment.
These incidents as well as others that were reported by peaceful protestors were why St. Louis county police where called in.
I just get annoyed when some want to go and justified misuse of power that cops have been well known to do, and even in the protests that are going on in Ferguson they have done.
Peaceful protestors ( freedom of speech ) - have every right to stand their and protest peacefully
Ferguson police fired rubber bullets and tear gas at them. Last night another Ferguson cop was pulled aside by a St. Louis county officer and then later put on suspension for pointing a gun at a peaceful protestor and telling them he would kill them.
News reports ( freedom of speech again ) - have every right to stand off to the side not part of the protest and report what they see.
Ferguson police still fired tear gas at them even though they identified themselves three times to the cops.
Another news crew forced out of McDonalds when they were not doing nothing but sitting in there recharging equipment.
These incidents as well as others that were reported by peaceful protestors were why St. Louis county police where called in.
A
Whoopedoo, half my family lives in Missouri and they give me the local reports as well as the national. St Louis was called in because they were needed to quell the rioting, looting, and assaults.
If there had been NO rioting and looting, there would have been NO reason to call them in. The National Guard was only called in on a limited bases to protect the command center in the Westfall shopping center.
You're wrong.
If there had been NO rioting and looting, there would have been NO reason to call them in. The National Guard was only called in on a limited bases to protect the command center in the Westfall shopping center.
You're wrong.
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