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K
Now that is just crazy thinking.
Just because something wrong was done in the past from some one else, does not apply to me.
The sins I have to account for are my own, and in turn we are told also to be forgiving of others wrong doing.
I am not reading from a stolen book, just because the original transcripts were supposedly stolen from the temple as you state.
I guess by your understanding you are trying to say the bible is now flawed, and no longer the truth.
Just because something wrong was done in the past from some one else, does not apply to me.
The sins I have to account for are my own, and in turn we are told also to be forgiving of others wrong doing.
I am not reading from a stolen book, just because the original transcripts were supposedly stolen from the temple as you state.
I guess by your understanding you are trying to say the bible is now flawed, and no longer the truth.
There are two sides to this debate that go too far.
One side is Eve.
They add to the commands of God.
"If we even touch it, we will die".
Some with bad intent use this to control the weak.
Some with good intentions, use "loss of Salvation" as a tool to keep people from sin.
This method brings people to do good works with the motive of self-preservation, rather than the motive of love.
It creates a works based salvation, and accidentally denies the true calling that we have in Christ.
The other side is the Serpent.
They deny the active judgement of God in this world.
"Surely you will not die"
Some with bad intent, make excuse to sin, and cause others to sin.
Some with good intent think they are helping people be free from condemnation.
This method neglects that God disciplines those that He loves, even unto physical death!
It creates passive layman believers,
rather than active priests of Christ, who is our High Priest.
One side is Eve.
They add to the commands of God.
"If we even touch it, we will die".
Some with bad intent use this to control the weak.
Some with good intentions, use "loss of Salvation" as a tool to keep people from sin.
This method brings people to do good works with the motive of self-preservation, rather than the motive of love.
It creates a works based salvation, and accidentally denies the true calling that we have in Christ.
The other side is the Serpent.
They deny the active judgement of God in this world.
"Surely you will not die"
Some with bad intent, make excuse to sin, and cause others to sin.
Some with good intent think they are helping people be free from condemnation.
This method neglects that God disciplines those that He loves, even unto physical death!
It creates passive layman believers,
rather than active priests of Christ, who is our High Priest.
K
I agree with you completely on this.
The funny thing that gets me is the ones I have talked to on here that believe the OSAS doctrine. The first thing that most of them have done to me is say I am condemned since I don't believe what they believe.
Wait a minute I thought their is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ. ( No salvation lost )
How can I then be condemned if I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord.
The funny thing that gets me is the ones I have talked to on here that believe the OSAS doctrine. The first thing that most of them have done to me is say I am condemned since I don't believe what they believe.
Wait a minute I thought their is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ. ( No salvation lost )
How can I then be condemned if I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord.
That is what you believe but James is saying different...
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Here the brethren have the right thinking but no works....This is the truth of Christ ...If you say you love Christ and don't do as he says, what does it profit?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Here the brethren have the right thinking but no works....This is the truth of Christ ...If you say you love Christ and don't do as he says, what does it profit?
What good are your intentions if they don't become reality? Will your intention to give me food and clothes fulfil those needs? Then we can all sit at home and have intentions of everyone being saved ,fed and clothed and do nothing and God will be pleased....
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
even fools believes that. ask cain if the dead spoke to god, with abel. and by the way , answer the question you were asked.
what man gives etenal?
what god gives eternal?
make straight all paths. and to think, god only speaks to you.
how can the blind see, and the deaf hear. sorry that will be because, they were never with him. or words to that affect or meaning.
what man gives etenal?
what god gives eternal?
make straight all paths. and to think, god only speaks to you.
how can the blind see, and the deaf hear. sorry that will be because, they were never with him. or words to that affect or meaning.
what is crazy is thinking, how can continue without grace. and if you started with grace, why now, do you think you can instruct god, or anyone else. with law.
is it, who can instruct god, so that we can direct his path. , there your problem, you can only answer for self. have fun trying, to rewrite history.
is it, who can instruct god, so that we can direct his path. , there your problem, you can only answer for self. have fun trying, to rewrite history.
Then I be a fool...
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Aren’t two sparrows sold for a penny? Not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s permission. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Every hair on your head has been counted. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Don’t be afraid! You are worth more than many sparrows.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“So I will acknowledge in front of my Father in heaven that person who acknowledges me in front of others. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But I will tell my Father in heaven that I don’t know the person who tells others that he doesn’t know me.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Don’t think that I came to bring peace to earth. I didn’t come to bring peace but conflict. [SUP]35 [/SUP]I came to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. [SUP]36 [/SUP]A person’s enemies will be the members of his own family.
I am not here to answer trick questions or riddles if God laid something on your heart to share then do so, no one knows everything except God, the more you share what God gives you the more you receive to share.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Aren’t two sparrows sold for a penny? Not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s permission. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Every hair on your head has been counted. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Don’t be afraid! You are worth more than many sparrows.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]“So I will acknowledge in front of my Father in heaven that person who acknowledges me in front of others. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But I will tell my Father in heaven that I don’t know the person who tells others that he doesn’t know me.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Don’t think that I came to bring peace to earth. I didn’t come to bring peace but conflict. [SUP]35 [/SUP]I came to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. [SUP]36 [/SUP]A person’s enemies will be the members of his own family.
I am not here to answer trick questions or riddles if God laid something on your heart to share then do so, no one knows everything except God, the more you share what God gives you the more you receive to share.
how is it a riddle or a trick question. do they need to be answered by a believer.
what man gives etenal?
what god gives eternal?
[SUP]what is foolish, is not, beliving in god, that can save., by believing in his son.
again, yes or no answer, and thats, why the questions need to be answered by you/me. etc[/SUP]
[SUP]16 [/SUP][SUP]"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.[/SUP][SUP]1[/SUP]
the latter question.
if god ,gives eternal. then osas, is fact. if you want to sweep grace under the carpet, again i would call this foolish. in favour of replacing, his favour,(god s) with self merit. or human works.
[SUP]21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
if god, can raise jesus from the grave, there is a good chance, he can raise, who he want to from the grave. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son. you will fine, jesus is back in heaven, when a new covenent started, ie the gift of the holy spirit. for all who believe that jesus christ is lord.
[/SUP]
what man gives etenal?
what god gives eternal?
[SUP]what is foolish, is not, beliving in god, that can save., by believing in his son.
again, yes or no answer, and thats, why the questions need to be answered by you/me. etc[/SUP]
[SUP]16 [/SUP][SUP]"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.[/SUP][SUP]1[/SUP]
the latter question.
if god ,gives eternal. then osas, is fact. if you want to sweep grace under the carpet, again i would call this foolish. in favour of replacing, his favour,(god s) with self merit. or human works.
[SUP]21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
if god, can raise jesus from the grave, there is a good chance, he can raise, who he want to from the grave. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son. you will fine, jesus is back in heaven, when a new covenent started, ie the gift of the holy spirit. for all who believe that jesus christ is lord.
[/SUP]
But eternal life cannot be temporary.
Scripture does not say that believers ever stop trusting Christ as their SAvior to eternal life.
Scripture says:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.
If one believes now (present time) one has (present time) eternal life, not a chance at it. If one believes now, one shall not perish (future).
The promise is clear. He who began a good work will complete it.
They shall never perish!
Any who have dismissed the loving Savior as a mere chance-giver,
are urged to repent and actually depend on Him as Savior.
While you are going off on this & that tangent, trying to object to God's plan of salvation, trying to be a condemner, remember how Romans 8 implies you can't do that. Who is he who condemns? Well there are a number of would-be condemners posting here, perverting gospel, doing the work of satan to dissuade people from trusting Christ as SAvior, insisting on how he is merely a chance giver.
But despite their best wicked efforts, the Word of God rules:
If you could lose salvation; it would not be salvation. Eternal life must be eternal.
The doctrine is clear as crystal in the Word of God. So while one tries this, that, & the other tactic to try to condemn the believer, it will not happen. Quoting passages which are not even about salvation goes no where. Remember what God's Word says specifically on the subject.
ps 34
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good,even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
THE OVERCOMER
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and
I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
I will confess his name before my Father…
For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things;
and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto
an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that does not fade away,
reserved in heaven for you, who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
On the cross He cried out, "IT IS FINISHED"!
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because you have done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it
But despite their best wicked efforts, the Word of God rules:
If you could lose salvation; it would not be salvation. Eternal life must be eternal.
The doctrine is clear as crystal in the Word of God. So while one tries this, that, & the other tactic to try to condemn the believer, it will not happen. Quoting passages which are not even about salvation goes no where. Remember what God's Word says specifically on the subject.
ps 34
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good,even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
THE OVERCOMER
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and
I will never blot his name out of the book of life.
I will confess his name before my Father…
For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He who overcomes shall inherit these things;
and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto
an inheritance
incorruptible, and
undefiled, and
that does not fade away,
reserved in heaven for you, who
by the power of God are guarded
through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
On the cross He cried out, "IT IS FINISHED"!
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because you have done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it
Last edited:
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2 Timothy 4:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But you will say they were never saved...
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2 Timothy 4:2-4
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
But you will say they were never saved...
This passage in context is not speaking of individual salvation but the Gentiles now receiving the blessings purposed for Israel.
Classic misapplication of a verse. Jesus was telling Jewish believers that those who endured the tribulation would be saved after endurance because they would see Christ coming in His glory at the close of the tribulation.
This group was never saved because they rejected the truth preferring doctrines that made them feel good. The teachers they seek are turning them away from the truth that men are sinners and need Christ to save them or they will be eternally lost.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Classic misapplication of a verse. Jesus was telling Jewish believers that those who endured the tribulation would be saved after endurance because they would see Christ coming in His glory at the close of the tribulation.
This group was never saved because they rejected the truth preferring doctrines that made them feel good. The teachers they seek are turning them away from the truth that men are sinners and need Christ to save them or they will be eternally lost.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
all groups are made up of individuals
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Don’t be alarmed! These things must happen, but they don’t mean that the end has come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nation will fight against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All of these are only the beginning pains of the end.
that is your interpretation and it really does not make sense...so those who endure and die before the end are not saved?
the truth is you don't reprove, rebuke, and exhort unbelievers....endure means to "remain in existence" how can an unbeliever not remain in existence to sound doctrine.....you have to be a believer to not endure sound doctrine....and turn from the truth
[/QUOTE]
OSAS is not scripture
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Don’t be alarmed! These things must happen, but they don’t mean that the end has come. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Nation will fight against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All of these are only the beginning pains of the end.
that is your interpretation and it really does not make sense...so those who endure and die before the end are not saved?
the truth is you don't reprove, rebuke, and exhort unbelievers....endure means to "remain in existence" how can an unbeliever not remain in existence to sound doctrine.....you have to be a believer to not endure sound doctrine....and turn from the truth
[/QUOTE]
OSAS is not scripture
I was just saying that GOD looks at your heart(faith) but man looks at your actions expressed by your body(what they can see.)
flesh is flesh
spirit is spirit
John 4:23
king james version(kjv)
23.)But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
flesh is flesh
spirit is spirit
John 4:23
king james version(kjv)
23.)But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.