Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

[directline2iam]

So wasps are humans and grapes that are not crushed in any way can get me drunk? Do I need ID to buy grapes now?

Well Linda70 said they are so I'm not going to dispute that one.lol
But hey, I looked for a story I told on here somewhere about clusters of grapes I picked for food, but I couldn't find it. I pulled each grape off of the clusters and put them one by one into a one gallon milk jug, cleaned out of a course and filled the jug. Filled a couple jugs. These were wild small grapes the kind they make mogan david out of, only wild. I have a colman cooler that was plugged in, in a non heated warehouse and it was winter and very cold in there, however, i was in a room with a small electric heater which kept the temp for me at about 55 give or take. The cooler, however, was kept in the large area and, the temp out in there was freezing with a cement floor and no insulation or heat. Those grapes that i put in the jug one by one till full were in that cooler about a week. I had nothing else to eat so they went fast. The last jug of which I ate a ceriel bowl full at a time, got me high. I kid you not. And I couldn't eat them as fast as I wanted to because I don't like getting high, intoxicated enough that I could of been arrested for DUI with a test. That is a fact and a true story.
So I'm just saying, you bet you don't need to add yeast. And I didn't consider them to be damaged or crushed as I was careful with them.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Well Linda70 said they are so I'm not going to dispute that one.lol
But hey, I looked for a story I told on here somewhere about clusters of grapes I picked for food, but I couldn't find it. I pulled each grape off of the clusters and put them one by one into a one gallon milk jug, cleaned out of a course and filled the jug. Filled a couple jugs. These were wild small grapes the kind they make mogan david out of, only wild. I have a colman cooler that was plugged in, in a non heated warehouse and it was winter and very cold in there, however, i was in a room with a small electric heater which kept the temp for me at about 55 give or take. The cooler, however, was kept in the large area and, the temp out in there was freezing with a cement floor and no insulation or heat. Those grapes that i put in the jug one by one till full were in that cooler about a week. I had nothing else to eat so they went fast. The last jug of which I ate a ceriel bowl full at a time, got me high. I kid you not. And I couldn't eat them as fast as I wanted to because I don't like getting high, intoxicated enough that I could of been arrested for DUI with a test. That is a fact and a true story.
So I'm just saying, you bet you don't need to add yeast. And I didn't consider them to be damaged or crushed as I was careful with them.

nice fairy tale.

 

[posthuman]

Well Linda70 said they are so I'm not going to dispute that one.lol
But hey, I looked for a story I told on here somewhere about clusters of grapes I picked for food, but I couldn't find it. I pulled each grape off of the clusters and put them one by one into a one gallon milk jug, cleaned out of a course and filled the jug. Filled a couple jugs. These were wild small grapes the kind they make mogan david out of, only wild. I have a colman cooler that was plugged in, in a non heated warehouse and it was winter and very cold in there, however, i was in a room with a small electric heater which kept the temp for me at about 55 give or take. The cooler, however, was kept in the large area and, the temp out in there was freezing with a cement floor and no insulation or heat. Those grapes that i put in the jug one by one till full were in that cooler about a week. I had nothing else to eat so they went fast. The last jug of which I ate a ceriel bowl full at a time, got me high. I kid you not. And I couldn't eat them as fast as I wanted to because I don't like getting high, intoxicated enough that I could of been arrested for DUI with a test. That is a fact and a true story.
So I'm just saying, you bet you don't need to add yeast. And I didn't consider them to be damaged or crushed as I was careful with them.

let me know i'f i'm understanding this right - you filled a container with grapes stored in a cool dark place, and then had nothing else to eat for some days but the grapes, from the top of the container down, freshest to oldest, right?

if that's true, there's two things going on i think -
one is the grapes and one is the lack of other food.

about the grapes - when they're picked, their skin is broken where they had been attached to the vine, unless you cut the vine. they were off-the vine, so there was in fact broken skin even if you hadn't mashed them. so oxygen & ambient yeast could reach the meat of the grapes.
they weren't frozen, so some yeasts were probably active, and in fact there was probably some measurable alcohol content in the grapes after a week. not very much, but i believe probably non-zero. the probably has a lot to do with how much yeast was on or around the grapes, and lessened by the temperature and the fact that very little of the grapes were exposed. i think it's probable with sensitive equipment you would find trace amounts of alcohol in any overripe grape, unless it had been specially treated to kill yeast and then kept from further sources of it.

about the malnutrition - every food or drink you ingest, even pure water has some chemical and/or physical effect on your body. you've never ingested anything in your life that wasn't a drug, except maybe arguably some inert noble gas. i'm averse to breathing a bunch of neon to find out.. but the effects of foodstuff on your body are pronounced when your are in a malnourished state. it's my opinion that the sugars themselves in the grapes, more than the alcohol content, altered your state of being to a noticeable effect after several days without much to eat, especially if you'd not slept much during that time either. fast for a few days then eat a ripe grapefruit, i bet you'll feel something high -- and find that fruit is a thing to thank God for.

 

[lisa79]

Look at the other ingredient. It calls for yeast. Unfermented Grape juice or Wine is not going to ferment without yeast.

Thats not true thats why the dont serve some fruits in jails because the prisoners but it in a jar and make alcohol.

 

[Last]

So you are a professional wine maker? Okay. If you are please show me wine sources that say crushed grapes always ferments fully and completely within the time that you say.
Please show me a source that says Natural Fermentation always completely ferments in every case. Surely if you make wine, you should have some knowledge of similar resources that have shared your same wine making experience.

In other words, what is the average amount of time grapes naturally ferment into an alcoholic liquid beverage that can intoxicate you?

First of all, I never said anything about fully and completely. That is another red herring of yours, it would be in reference to a dry wine in which there are no sugars left, as opposed to a sweet wine in which a few sugars are left. This is you trying to go back to your old argument of weak and strong wines.

Second, no one really makes wine that way anymore. Using wild yeast produces unpredictable flavors.

The time of fermentation depends on the amount of yeast and the temperature. This argument of yours is really pointless anyways, since the majority of sugars are consumed within a few days anyways, even in a slow fermenting wine. How long it takes to ferment the sugars is a totally meaningless discussion and your last attempt to cling to something after being shown wrong over and over again. If wine takes 1 or 3 days to ferment, that has nothing to do with your arguments.

 

[Last]

Can anyone tell me ht good comes from ingesting alcohol?

Back then it made water sanitary. Wine was a good source of vitamin c

 

[Last]

nice fairy tale.

Where are your sources on the non-alcoholic wines?

 

[Jason0047]

Thats not true thats why the dont serve some fruits in jails because the prisoners but it in a jar and make alcohol.

You were not following the conversation. The link I provided was for a recipe for taking regular unfermented Welch's grape juice and yeast so as to make alcoholic intoxicating wine.

 

[Jason0047]

First of all, I never said anything about fully and completely. That is another red herring of yours, it would be in reference to a dry wine in which there are no sugars left, as opposed to a sweet wine in which a few sugars are left. This is you trying to go back to your old argument of weak and strong wines. Second, no one really makes wine that way anymore. Using wild yeast produces unpredictable flavors.

I have no idea what you believe is false or true about wine. I am not a mind reader. Okay. So we are not in disagreement about the above. Very good. Let's move on to the next thing you said.

The time of fermentation depends on the amount of yeast and the temperature. This argument of yours is really pointless anyways, since the majority of sugars are consumed within a few days anyways, even in a slow fermenting wine. How long it takes to ferment the sugars is a totally meaningless discussion and your last attempt to cling to something after being shown wrong over and over again. If wine takes 1 or 3 days to ferment, that has nothing to do with your arguments.

My major point was that it takes 3 to 7 days for wine to naturally forment to a point where it can intoxicate you. You seemed to believe that this was sooner for some reason. My question still stands: What is the average amount of time for fresh crushed grapes to ferment naturally on it's own power so as to intoxicate you? For I seriously doubt crushed grapes that ferment can intoxicate you in just 1 day. I say this because if Jesus made freshly squeezed grape juice, there would have been no time for his beverage to ferment to a point where it could intoxicate anyone.

 

[Flamingspirit]

I can't believe this thread is 60 pages long on talking about liquor. Let's figure out how to do away with world hunger or homelessness.

 

[Jason0047]

Where are your sources on the non-alcoholic wines?

Check out this article and look at the sources below it.Jesus and Wine

 

[Last]

You were not following the conversation. The link I provided was for a recipe for taking regular unfermented Welch's grape juice and yeast so as to make alcoholic intoxicating wine.

I know, and that has nothing to do with a discussion on ancient wine making.

That's like discussing Plato's cave of forms with string theory.

 

[Jason0047]

I can't believe this thread is 60 pages long on talking about liquor. Let's figure out how to do away with world hunger or homelessness.

Jesus said the poor will always be among you.

 

[Jason0047]

I know, and that has nothing to do with a discussion on ancient wine making.That's like discussing Plato's cave of forms with string theory.

The point I am trying to make is that both grape juice with added yeast and crushed grapes both take several days to forment so as to intoxicate you. Again, please enlighten us on the average amount of time crushed grapes takes to forment naturally so as to intoxicate you. Please provide sources. Because I am not going to just take your word for it.

 

[thecreationtutor]

this thread is still going on? someone here just "has" to be right - hows that going?

 

[Flamingspirit]

Jesus said the poor will always be among you.

Will it be like that in heaven? Then we will not always have them. As long as we use money we will! We can end homelessness and hunger by giving it away.

 

[Jason0047]

Will it be like that in heaven? Then we will not always have them. As long as we use money we will! We can end homelessness and hunger by giving it away.

Jesus was referring to here on Earth. Among you. Currently within this age or time of the Earth. He was not talking to them up in Heaven. Nor was he talking to them in the Millennium either after the Earth is purified by fire (Sort of life how the Earth was purified before with the global flood).

 

[Last]

I have no idea what you believe is false or true about wine. I am not a mind reader.

I think I have made it pretty clear this how durn topic.

Okay. So we are not in disagreement about the above. Very good. Let's move on to the next thing you said.My major point was that it takes 3 to 7 days for wine to naturally forment to a point where it can intoxicate you.

No, it takes 3-7 days to complete primary fermentation of sterile grape juices in a modern temperature controlled room using modern yeast cultures.

Today wine is made by basically sterilizing yeast and introducing a very carefully prepared and selected strain of yeast. Of course, if you dump 2 or 5 or 10 vials above what you should, the wine will ferment much faster, but that's rather wasteful.

You seemed to believe that this was sooner for some reason. My question still stands: What is the average amount of time for fresh crushed grapes to ferment naturally on it's own power so as to intoxicate you? For I seriously doubt crushed grapes that ferment can intoxicate you in just 1 day. I say this because if Jesus made freshly squeezed grape juice, there would have been no time for his beverage to ferment to a point where it could intoxicate anyone.

It all depends. If you squeeze grapes, then the yeast given in that environment and given the time of making wine will convert most of the sugars in a day or two. Grape juice when fermenting will 'boil'. CO2 and alcohol with be produced so fast that it will look like the juice is boiling on stove, even though it is at room temperature.

If you are asking if Jesus produced grape juice at the wedding of Cana, then the answer is no, there would hardly be any alcohol present in it. However, from the account of John 2, it is clear Jesus did not make grape juice. The head waiter noticed that it was fine wine. It would be shocking for someone to offer grape juice.

Let me explain this - when they made wine, the yeast that reproduced and consumed the wine was random. In the fall, the grapes were ripe for picking. There was this brief period of time when you should pick grapes. So you picked them, squeezed them, and put the juice in jars. They had no idea that invisible organisms were inside the juice.

The juice quickly fermented into wine. Within a few days, the wine was as alcoholic as any normal modern wine. Some wines had nice tasting yeasts. Other jars of wine had yeast that creating undesired flavors.So when you had a big function, you'd first serve the best tasting wine, and then the cheaper, lesser tasting wines.

Within the last few centuries, labs have been able to select and bred yeast strains that taste good. Modern wine makers kill off all the natural yeasts within wine. They do not want random wines, they want wines produced by the variety of yeast they like best.

 

[Jason0047]

this thread is still going on? someone here just "has" to be right - hows that going?

Believers care about the truths in the Bible. In fact, this is important topic to get right because it is a moral issue. For depending on what side you choose, you are either choosing to glorify Jesus Christ or you are choosing to glorify an intoxicating liquid beverage.

 

[Flamingspirit]

Jesus was referring to here on Earth. Among you. Here on Earth. He was not talking to them up in Heaven. Nor was he talking to them in the Millennium either after the Earth is purified by fire (Sort of life with the global flood).

Does not the bride have to make herself ready? Let us get ourselves ready by doing away with money and giving everything to all freely. Or do you like paying bills?



This is not living! It's new age slavery!