How did the angels sin if there is no sin in heaven? / Is their free will in heaven?

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Sharp

Sharp

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May 5, 2009
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Various pasages in the bible point to heaven as a sinless place.

I have heard it said that the angels had one opportunity, as we do, to either follow God or rebel, and after making that choice, they can't go back. The bad angels won't get a second chance and the good ones won't want to sin. Is this correct?

If heaven is a place of perfection from which unrepentant sinners are excluded, how did the angels sin in heaven?

Will we have free will in heaven? There will be no sin but is that because we won't have a free will to sin? Or will we have a free will but just not want to sin? Or will we have a hybrid free will that allows us to do anything except sin?
 
If you research it enough you will find they didn't. God told the angels to love man as if they love him but never to reveal themselves to man. Lucifer aka the morning star aka the dragon-translated to serpent in genesis-appeared to man seeking to aid man and realise his true divine potential as a god in his own right but in doing so he broke the word of god and was cast out of heaven (though he was in Eden)

the interstibg part of all off this is angels fo not have the gift of free will, they were made so god could use them as his hands because the infinite cannot touchbthe finite which means the morning stars choice to "inturpret" the will of god was all part of gods plan and a moral lesson for all of us.
 
what are you talking about? Lucifer sinned because he became vain and tried to overthrow God and in the process decieved one third of the angels by lying,there was a war and he was cast to the earth.
 
Liam said:
If you research it enough you will find they didn't. God told the angels to love man as if they love him but never to reveal themselves to man. Lucifer aka the morning star aka the dragon-translated to serpent in genesis-appeared to man seeking to aid man and realise his true divine potential as a god in his own right but in doing so he broke the word of god and was cast out of heaven (though he was in Eden)

the interstibg part of all off this is angels fo not have the gift of free will, they were made so god could use them as his hands because the infinite cannot touchbthe finite which means the morning stars choice to "inturpret" the will of god was all part of gods plan and a moral lesson for all of us.
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I feel you're misguided.
An angel appeared to Mary as well as various other people in the Bible.
Lucifer had already fallen before he appeared to Eve, as he had become vain and self righteous and thought he could be above God.
 
Isaiah 14
12 “ How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘ I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
16 “ Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘ Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
17 Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’
18 “ All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;
19 But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.
20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.
The brood of evildoers shall never be named.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children
Because of the iniquity of their fathers,
Lest they rise up and possess the land,
And fill the face of the world with cities.”
 
MightyLionOfJuda said:
what are you talking about? Lucifer sinned because he became vain and tried to overthrow God and in the process decieved one third of the angels by lying,there was a war and he was cast to the earth.
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Well yeah - they were obviously sinning. But how did they do it, if nothing unclean ever enters heaven (Reveleation 21:27).
 
Revelation 12
3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

(skipping a few verses to understand what the dragon and stars symbolize...)

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.


Just had to throw in verse 11 because AMEN to that.. Woo we are overcomers by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony!
 
this is past tense,there is no more angels leaving heaven because of sin for the ones that did were decieved by satan who is the father of lies and decieves us here on earth
 
Well, yeah I wouldn't say it's impossible to happen again.. The angels now just know the consequence for rebelling against God or being disobedient.
 
I just lost a three page post so this will be short and withOut refrence because I am very angry I have to r
 
Okay that's the third time that my explination had not been posted so I'm walking away right mow. I'll saw this seek the answers. Look beyond the scrpitures you have now. There's are over 100 "cencored" books. I'm very mad but I will post my reply soon the devil just doesn't like people knowing his true face.
 
Definition_Christ said:
Well, yeah I wouldn't say it's impossible to happen again.. The angels now just know the consequence for rebelling against God or being disobedient.
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So do you think angels can sin now and be cast out? I have no idea. But 1 Timothy 5:21 mentions 'elect angels'.

The bible seems to say that heaven for us will be a sinless place. Were the angels able to commit sin in heaven because they are not human and not under the same principle........?

Which leads me to wonder....if the angels could sin in heaven, what is the basis for us not being able to? Is it because we won't have free will? Or is it because we will just not want to sin???
 
Sharp said:
So do you think angels can sin now and be cast out? I have no idea. But 1 Timothy 5:21 mentions 'elect angels'.

The bible seems to say that heaven for us will be a sinless place. Were the angels able to commit sin in heaven because they are not human and not under the same principle........?

Which leads me to wonder....if the angels could sin in heaven, what is the basis for us not being able to? Is it because we won't have free will? Or is it because we will just not want to sin???
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No I don't think so.. I mean they might be able to but they wouldn't because they know the consequences.. They also have NO redeemer.. That is not saying God chose some angels to be elect and some not to be elect.. All angels were created for God's purpose. They do however have free will. Also.. They were not kicked out of heaven because they were not the "elect".. They were kicked out because of disobedience.

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

So it's not the angels who even necessarily sinned... They just did "keep their proper domain".. They were disobedient.

Yes we will have free will in heaven.. But we will have no need to sin.. We only have a need to sin or a desire to sin not because we live in corruptible bodies.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

Hope that helps.
 
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We will have a free will else we would only be like robots.
Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
 
Tomorrow going to a net cafe and I'll lay it all out for you guya I'm so pumped, angels are kinda my speciality. Anyone know anything about the nephilum? That's so spElled wrong but i'm rushed and at work. ;)
 
"Angels" is a job description, not a racial designation, meaning "messenger". We are not told much about how Satan's legions ended up here and much of what we read about heaven is expressed in similitudes. I doubt if our present language of experience could adequately express heaven. Be careful of the "Lucifer" text as it applies primarily to man and only secondarily to Satan. I believe, based upon scripture that the first heaven was defiled by the fall of Satan, thus we will see a new heaven. I believe, based on scripture that Rev. 21:27 applies to the new heaven. I don't know if another heavenly fall is possible.
 
Well, let me ask you this. If you were in the presence of GOD HIMSELF would YOU want to sin? Could you sin? Probably. But man, how could you look into Jesus's eyes, and feel the glory and power of God, and then do something contrary to His will? How could you do anything but simply worship, love, and adore him?
 
I cannot fathom rebelling. Yet, apparently, there are heavenly creatures who did. I can only accept or reject what scripture says. I do not understand how it happened once, so I cannot speculate as to whether it will happen again.
 
Harley_Angel said:
Well, let me ask you this. If you were in the presence of GOD HIMSELF would YOU want to sin? Could you sin? Probably. But man, how could you look into Jesus's eyes, and feel the glory and power of God, and then do something contrary to His will? How could you do anything but simply worship, love, and adore him?
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Yeah I reckon!

But some of the angels did exactly that. And they did that in the presence of God.

I think I might have found the answer. 1 John 3:2 says that when God appears we will be like him, and God is not capable of sin, so I don't think we will be capable of sin.

But the angels........they're not like us I don't think.
 
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