Nothing new about the "new" covenant?

[Angela53510]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Elin again.

 

[Fishbait]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

I think my meaning is clear, but to those who would claim otherwise, I will clarify to avoid confusion.

My belief that every word of the Bible is true does not mean I understand every word of the Bible.

One does not have to understand prophecy at all to believe every word of the Bible is true.
Nor does one have to understand prophecy literally to believe every word of the Bible is true.

When it coms to understanding the Bible, I take my understanding from NT teaching,
and understand the whole Bible in the light of the words spoken by the Son
in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

I agree with you. Those that claim to "understand every word of the Bible" and claim to be righteous and all knowing are often in error. I sometimes claim to know something about the Bible and the message that it proclaims. And sometimes error. But I always try and remember what the Bible told me:

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" - Romans 3:10

 

[prove-all]

Re: promise to David

Genesis 49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,

until Shiloh come; and unto him shall [the gathering of the people be].

11Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine;
he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

that was his first trip

12His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

that when Christ return to take over the Kingdom.

4And Abijah stood up upon mount Zemaraim, which is in mount Ephraim, and said,
Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel;

5Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave [the kingdom over Israel to David for ever],
even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?


3I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto [David my servant],
4Thy seed will I establish for ever, and [build up thy throne] [to all generations]. Selah.

That term “all generations” certainly must include those generations from Zedekiah to the birth of Christ.
Who occupied that throne during those generations?


28My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and [my covenant shall stand fast] with him.
29His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and [his throne as the days] of heaven.

30If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36His seed shall endure for ever, and [his throne] as the sun before me.


31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
again Jesus earthly kingdom has not happened yet.

3Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
4For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city,
and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword;


[For me, it's a no-brainer, And King Jesus' throne is at the right hand of the Father.

you confuse the word of God because you use only the new test.

you need to read the old in it you would know, that God is sitting on His throne,

with Jesus on his side waiting for his kingdom come, thy will be done,


on earth as it is in Heaven. please go ask God when his Kingdom comes onto earth.

I hope i see you there , good bye for now

 

[LEPIDUS]

Re: promise to David

I have no idea which translation you are using, but SUCCEEDS is not in mine, nor in the Greek which you posted.

You obviously have no reading comprehension.


Reading comprehension:
Reading comprehension is the ability to read text, process it and understand its meaning. An individual's ability to comprehend text is influenced by their traits and skills, one of which is the ability to make inferences.


in·fer·ence
ˈinf(ə)rəns/Submit
noun
plural noun: inferences
a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.
synonyms: deduction, conclusion, reasoning, conjecture, speculation, guess, presumption, assumption, supposition, reckoning, extrapolation
"there should be no inference drawn from the fact that he chooses not to be a witness"
the process of inferring something.
"his emphasis on order and health, and by inference cleanliness"

"And he said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house, who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.” Matt 13:52 ESV

In KJV


Matthew 13:52
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.


Greek translation


Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Διὰ τοῦτο πᾶς γραμματεὺς μαθητευθεὶς εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν οὐρανῶν ὅμοιός ἐστιν ἀνθρώπῳ οἰκοδεσπότῃ ὅστις ἐκβάλλει ἐκ τοῦ θησαυροῦ αὐτοῦ καινὰ καὶ παλαιά


My post is not to emphasise this verse, parable or not, but to emphasize the definition provided for the word new

In Greek, and also in your Thayer's copy-and-paste clearly says "new and old."

You are obviously blinded by arrogance and will not understand anything that I am stating so I will not attempt clarify anymore.

Besides, you have broken every every rule of hermeneutics, pulling this Scripture out of context, which is a parable, not a doctrinal statement. In fact, the very next verse says it is a parable.[/FONT]
]"And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there," Matt 13:53.

This doesn't apply as I was not taking any verse out of context but emphasizing the definition for new. Besides my entire post has nothing to do with a parable, so please don't make any void assertions.

Very poor exegetics of this passage, and I am sure if I looked at the rest of your Hebrew Roots movement diatribe, I would find the same lousy job of interpreting the Bible. Please learn Greek, and Hermeneutics, before you waste our time with this nonsense!

Again this passage is not the focus. Maybe you should read the post and stop making assumptions, and if by lousy you mean cause it doesn't coincide with your understanding then so be it.


Please understand the meaning of a word before you use it; I have not forcefully or bitterly attacked anything or anyone. I presented a view with scripture if you don't agree, not my problem.


And by the way, I have not started any movement, I'm sure if I do, you and elin will be the first to try and discredit me. lol (sarcasm)


I can be a scholar of Greek and you still wouldn't comprehend.


It's only wasting your time because you are reading it, so don't.

PS. Downloading words off the internet is NOT knowing Greek! And I used Bauer and Danke! A book!

Same applies to you, having a book doesn't make you a scholar of Greek, besides it does you no good as obviously you have no reading comprehension.


Book or not, I clearly stated my point. You just don't want to accept it and that is fine with me.


And if it makes you feel better and want to have the last say, I will not reply to any bitter nonsense you have to say after this.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

No. . .the first three chapters to 3:6 are to convince the Hebrews
of the superiority of Jesus' revelation to that of the OT prophets,
by showing them the superiority of Jesus himself,
who was greater than even an angel
(angels were involved in giving the law at Sinai--2:2),
and greater than even Moses, the mediator of the old covenant,
because Christ is a Son, while Moses was just a servant,
and Christ is over all God's house,
while Moses was only in God's house as just a part of it.

Hebrews was written because some of them were considering returning to Judaism because of disenfranchisement and persecution by their families and former friends.

The whole purpose of Hebrews is to convince them of the superiority of Christ,
why faith in him is the same faith as in the OT,
and to warn against lapsing back into Judaism,
where they would die in their sin,
because they would be rejecting the only sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews is about the superiority of revelation spoken by the Son
over revelation spoken by the prophets of old,
as the reason not to return to Judaism.

I will not get into this with you. I'm glad you acknowledge Christ's Divinity.

 

[LEPIDUS]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Elin again.

I won't reply after this one. haha

Please, if you have something to say to me, direct it to me. Your opinion of me has no effect on me. Elin is spreading her own reputation, all on her own; each person does, just as you are doing now.

I have not once attacked elin, she, herself, has repeatedly initiated her personal vendetta.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

I agree with you. Those that claim to "understand every word of the Bible" and claim to be righteous and all knowing are often in error. I sometimes claim to know something about the Bible and the message that it proclaims. And sometimes error. But I always try and remember what the Bible told me:

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" - Romans 3:10

It is foolish to claim to understand the whole Bible, like wise, it is foolish to try and understand the whole Bible only with certain scripture.

 

[Sabre]

I think Elin is a replacement theology fanatic who thinks the OT irrelevant in all aspects except those which support her interpretation.

 

[gotime]

I find it interesting that people read what they want to see and not what is there.

The Old Covenant was about what was in the heart just as much as the new is.

The New covenant requires complete obedience just as the Old did.

The difference is simple.

Earthly high priests now Jesus our High priest. note there is still a high priest.
Animal sacrifices now Jesus our sacrifice. Note still a sacrifice.
Earthly temple made by people now Temple made by God in heaven. note still a temple.

In both there are 10 commandments and in both the expectation is after you are freed from slavery you must keep them.

Take away the 10 commandments and you take away any need for a sacrifice or a High priest or a temple. making the ministry of Jesus of no effect.

 

[chubbena]

To quote someone else on this forum.

That's a very creative interpretation.

Hooey. . .but creative.

You may have a buffet at the following like you do to the bible
Answer #1 Non responsive.
#2 Read it again.
#3 Read it again...you got it wrong.
#4 I understand your frustration at not being able to answer (but then you are a fast learner from someone else on this forum).
#5 That is private and uncertain interpretation (of my post).
#6 To quote someone else on this forum. That's a very creative interpretation. Hooey. . .but creative.
#7 That's kinda' lame, don't you think?

Disclaimer: all quoted from someone whose reputation is evident with private and uncertain interpretation.

 

[chubbena]

I think Elin is a replacement theology fanatic who thinks the OT irrelevant in all aspects except those which support her interpretation.

The following answer is computer generated:

You have mistook me with someone else.

 

[just-me]

I find it interesting that people read what they want to see and not what is there.

The Old Covenant was about what was in the heart just as much as the new is.

The New covenant requires complete obedience just as the Old did.

The difference is simple.

Earthly high priests now Jesus our High priest. note there is still a high priest.
Animal sacrifices now Jesus our sacrifice. Note still a sacrifice.

We are also a sacrifice for His ministry and glory. This is a definite relation to the temple made without hands.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Earthly temple made by people now Temple made by God in heaven. note still a temple.

In both there are 10 commandments and in both the expectation is after you are freed from slavery you must keep them.

Take away the 10 commandments and you take away any need for a sacrifice or a High priest or a temple. making the ministry of Jesus of no effect.

That's been the entire point for about 3 days now in relation to Hebrews 8:6-13. In fact the truth of your statement reaches into the following chapter. It is true that the new covenant is better, and the physical temple has been replaced along with Levi, and his descendants. Many will say that the one change of that priesthood changes all that was previous including giving us the right to throw away everything, and saying Christ fulfilled that which is no longer relevant. It's sad. How can a project be completed if the last piece has nothing to be fixed to? Is it true that Jesus had to start the plan of salvation all over again? Is it true that the Old Covenant plays no roll in that plan? I think not.

 

[chubbena]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" - Romans 3:10

Paul quoted from the psalmist. The context of Psalm 14 reads:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I always try and remember those buffet the Word of God are those the Psalmist spoke about in Psalm 14.

 

[Elin]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

Genesis 49:10
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
until Shiloh come; and unto him shall [the gathering of the people be].
11Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine;
he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

that was his first trip

12His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

that when Christ return to take over the Kingdom.

4And Abijah stood up upon mount Zemaraim, which is in mount Ephraim, and said,
Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel;
5Ought ye not to know that the Lord God of Israel gave [the kingdom over Israel to David for ever],
even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?

3I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto [David my servant],
4Thy seed will I establish for ever, and [build up thy throne] [to all generations]. Selah.

That term “all generations” certainly must include those generations from Zedekiah to the birth of Christ.
Who occupied that throne during those generations?

Previously addressed.

28My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and [my covenant shall stand fast] with him.
29His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and [his throne as the days] of heaven.
30If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

And God didn't break it, the people did, which nullified it.

35Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36His seed shall endure for ever, and [his throne] as the sun before me.

31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

again Jesus earthly kingdom has not happened yet.

Jesus earthly kingdom is now--within, invisible (Lk 17:20-21)--in the hearts of those where he rules and reigns.

3Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.
4For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city,
and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the mounts, and by the sword;

For me, it's a no-brainer, And King Jesus' throne is at the right hand of the Father.

you confuse the word of God because you use only the new test.

you need to read the old in it you would know, that God is sitting on His throne,

with Jesus on his side waiting for his kingdom come, thy will be done,

on earth as it is in Heaven. please go ask God when his Kingdom comes onto earth.

God has told me clearly when his kingdom comes to earth.
It comes in the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness (2Pe 3:12-13).

I hope i see you there , good bye for now

You will find me in the new heavens and new earth of the restoration of all creation (Ro 8:19-23)
in the new creation, the home of righteousness.

And you did not answer my question if you are a USA citizen.

 

[Elin]

I think Elin is a replacement theology fanatic who thinks the OT irrelevant in all aspects except those which support her interpretation.

You have me confused with someone else.

 

[Elin]

I find it interesting that people read what they want to see and not what is there.

The Old Covenant was about what was in the heart just as much as the new is.

The Old Covenant was about a curse on those who did not obey all of it,
which was everyone under it (Gal 3:10; Dt 27:26)

The New covenant requires complete obedience just as the Old did.

But there is no curse attached to the new covenant for incomplete obedience.

The difference is simple.

Earthly high priests now Jesus our High priest. note there is still a high priest.
Animal sacrifices now Jesus our sacrifice. Note still a sacrifice.

No, there is no more daily sacrifice.
Jesus' sacrifice was once for all who believe.

Earthly temple made by people now Temple made by God in heaven. note still a temple.

The NT earthly Temple is the body of believers now.

In both there are 10 commandments and in both the expectation is after you are freed from slavery you must keep them.

In the NT, the commandments are the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6), not the law of Moses.

Take away the 10 commandments and you take away any need for a sacrifice or a High priest or a temple. making the ministry of Jesus of no effect.

You have no clue regarding the better promises of the superior new covenant of which Jesus is the mediator.

 

[gzusfrk]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

yet the prayer of a righteous man availeth much.. james 5:6

 

[Elin]

Hebrews 8:13 reads: By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The Hebrew writer said what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Just-me refers to the temple and we all know the temple has disappeared.

Some refer to the covenant, the law and the prophets or part thereof in the first 39 books in the bible also know as the scripture. Well, they are still there in the bible from one manuscript to the other, one translation to the other, from one publisher to the other and from one publication to the next.

You may have a buffet at the following like you do to the bible

Answer #1 Non responsive.

That works well.

 

[prove-all]

Re: Nothing new about the "new" covenant ?

[God has told me clearly when his kingdom comes to earth.
It comes in the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness ]

then why did you tell me Jesus was on his throne , ruling kingdom sitting next to God ?

[Previously addressed.]
how can you of adressed this post allready, when they are new verses,
mabe you should go back and reread them, you seem to not be.
no you never adressed others like, Davids kin reign on throne to all generations,

you are missing 400 years to Christ.



34My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.



[And God didn't break it, the people did, which nullified it. ]

sorry it is not nullified, people sinned but God says it is not broken.


all you keep doing is saying you proved it but you have not.


[And you did not answer my question if you are a USA citizen.]

i did not know you asked,

i live in usa, not sure how that changes things.

mabe you missed my american flag by my name.


The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
until Shiloh come; and unto him shall [the gathering of the people be].

is Shiloh here ?

 

[Elin]

We are also a sacrifice for His ministry and glory. This is a definite relation to the temple made without hands.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

That's been the entire point for about 3 days now in relation to Hebrews 8:6-13. In fact the truth of your statement reaches into the following chapter. It is true that the new covenant is better, and the physical temple has been replaced along with Levi, and his descendants. Many will say that the one change of that priesthood changes all that was previous including giving us the right to throw away everything, and saying Christ fulfilled that which is no longer relevant. It's sad. How can a project be completed if the last piece has nothing to be fixed to? Is it true that Jesus had to start the plan of salvation all over again?

Is it true that the Old Covenant plays no roll in that plan? I think not.

Agreed. . . .