Is your house build on the rock or sand?
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Can we disagree on what Sabbaths we should observe?
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
I firmly believe that the proper attitude we should have in disagreements is:
One side will likely be vindicated in the next life, and the other side will be forgiven.
In some cases, both sides will need to be forgiven.
In other cases, both sides will be vindicated.
I think we often create "salvation issues" out of "maturity issues".
Even babes in Christ will be saved. Perhaps with less reward, but still saved.
One side will likely be vindicated in the next life, and the other side will be forgiven.
In some cases, both sides will need to be forgiven.
In other cases, both sides will be vindicated.
I think we often create "salvation issues" out of "maturity issues".
Even babes in Christ will be saved. Perhaps with less reward, but still saved.
I read your post (or in general) and I start to analyze, to try and understand if you mean one thing or the other. lol I can break this post and have so many questions brought up of what you are trying to say, and it could be something really obvious but I process every possibility of what you are trying to convey, and sometimes miss the obvious.
One understanding that I get when I read your post is the following:
You firmly believe that the proper attitude we should have in disagreements PERTAINING TO SCRIPTURE is:
The side that IS IN ACCORD with scripture will be vindicated, while the other is forgiven FOR NOT BEING IN ACCORD.
and for the remainder of your post I completely broke it down that I rather not state my understanding
Is this what you mean, or by disagreements you mean on trivial things? haha.
Sorry, I probably did not make any sense. It is late.
One understanding that I get when I read your post is the following:
You firmly believe that the proper attitude we should have in disagreements PERTAINING TO SCRIPTURE is:
The side that IS IN ACCORD with scripture will be vindicated, while the other is forgiven FOR NOT BEING IN ACCORD.
and for the remainder of your post I completely broke it down that I rather not state my understanding
Is this what you mean, or by disagreements you mean on trivial things? haha.
Sorry, I probably did not make any sense. It is late.
I suppose the issue is, can a doctrine be in accord with Scripture, yet also not necessary?
Abstaining from meat is in accord with Scripture, yet not necessary.
Abstaining from all forms of alcohol is in accord with Scripture, yet not necessary.
Most of the issues we debate on CC have both sides claiming to be in accord with Scripture.
Perhaps many times we are only seeing one side of a multi-sided object. In this way, we are in accord with Scripture, but are focusing on one part over another. This issue of focus is generally what bring disagreements.
A Wesleyan will say, "if we do not persevere, then we are not saved."
And a Calvinist will say "if we are not saved, then we would not persevere."
2 sides of the same object. Both are right.
Both accuse the other foolishly.
A Lutheran will say "Baptism and Communion are sacraments, commanded in Scripture, and required for salvation".
A Baptist will say "If we are saved, we will desire to follow Christ, and will desire to participate in Baptism and Communion".
2 sides of the same object. Both are right.
Both accuse the other foolishly.
Some arguments come with legalism verses antinomianism.
A "legalist" says "Faith without works is dead, if we don't do works, then we're not saved".
And an "antinomian" says "saved by faith, not by works. But if we are saved, then we will do good works by the Spirit".
In practicality, both have faith, and both do good works,
but both think the other is wrong.
Abstaining from meat is in accord with Scripture, yet not necessary.
Abstaining from all forms of alcohol is in accord with Scripture, yet not necessary.
Most of the issues we debate on CC have both sides claiming to be in accord with Scripture.
Perhaps many times we are only seeing one side of a multi-sided object. In this way, we are in accord with Scripture, but are focusing on one part over another. This issue of focus is generally what bring disagreements.
A Wesleyan will say, "if we do not persevere, then we are not saved."
And a Calvinist will say "if we are not saved, then we would not persevere."
2 sides of the same object. Both are right.
Both accuse the other foolishly.
A Lutheran will say "Baptism and Communion are sacraments, commanded in Scripture, and required for salvation".
A Baptist will say "If we are saved, we will desire to follow Christ, and will desire to participate in Baptism and Communion".
2 sides of the same object. Both are right.
Both accuse the other foolishly.
Some arguments come with legalism verses antinomianism.
A "legalist" says "Faith without works is dead, if we don't do works, then we're not saved".
And an "antinomian" says "saved by faith, not by works. But if we are saved, then we will do good works by the Spirit".
In practicality, both have faith, and both do good works,
but both think the other is wrong.
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It depends on what you are trusting God for.
If it is to take you to heaven when you die, then you will get just that. If it is a wasting disease unto death, like cancer, then you will waste away, suffering like the rest of the world, as it eats away at your body, then die.
Yeah, you have won a great victory and glorified God in your suffering. You endured till it ate you dead.
Well, at least you went to heaven.
This is not the kind of suffering Christ became a curse and bore for you before He went to and when He was on the cross.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
One major problem with the church of today, is that there is absolutely NO power in their word or prayer.
What is the power of God. It is the gospel or the word of God. If you are confessing and looking to the world to fix everything for you, then where does God fit in?
Do any of the signs follow you that was in Christ, except delivering the gospel to the lost and getting them saved?
Jesus' word was with power. If we don't speak forth His word, which is power, then how do you expect your words to be of any effect?
The reason why Jesus had such great influence and impact on so many people's lives is because He walked in power to heal and cast out evil spirits, and to set people free.
Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
We will never be above Jesus, praise God, but we are to be as or like Him on earth, and He never suffered from any sickness, so neither should we.
If it is to take you to heaven when you die, then you will get just that. If it is a wasting disease unto death, like cancer, then you will waste away, suffering like the rest of the world, as it eats away at your body, then die.
Yeah, you have won a great victory and glorified God in your suffering. You endured till it ate you dead.
Well, at least you went to heaven.
This is not the kind of suffering Christ became a curse and bore for you before He went to and when He was on the cross.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
One major problem with the church of today, is that there is absolutely NO power in their word or prayer.
What is the power of God. It is the gospel or the word of God. If you are confessing and looking to the world to fix everything for you, then where does God fit in?
Do any of the signs follow you that was in Christ, except delivering the gospel to the lost and getting them saved?
Jesus' word was with power. If we don't speak forth His word, which is power, then how do you expect your words to be of any effect?
The reason why Jesus had such great influence and impact on so many people's lives is because He walked in power to heal and cast out evil spirits, and to set people free.
Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
We will never be above Jesus, praise God, but we are to be as or like Him on earth, and He never suffered from any sickness, so neither should we.
No, that is not what I said, but at the same time, no, we don't die like the rest of the world.
The rest of the world suffers before they die.
Those who walk uprightly before God, generally know when they are going to go, and there is absolutely no suffering. They just close their eyes, and they are with Jesus.
On my wife's side of the family, that is how they died, except for one. Before they went, their faces lit up and asked if they all can see Jesus, for where my wife was from, they all died in their houses, among family members. They also told everyone when Jesus was coming to take them home.
There are many account of people who died like that. But it is according to your faith and walk with God.
Faith comes by hearing, so if all you heard and agreed with was for salvation, then you only had enough faith for salvation, but nothing else.
The rest of the world suffers before they die.
Those who walk uprightly before God, generally know when they are going to go, and there is absolutely no suffering. They just close their eyes, and they are with Jesus.
On my wife's side of the family, that is how they died, except for one. Before they went, their faces lit up and asked if they all can see Jesus, for where my wife was from, they all died in their houses, among family members. They also told everyone when Jesus was coming to take them home.
There are many account of people who died like that. But it is according to your faith and walk with God.
Faith comes by hearing, so if all you heard and agreed with was for salvation, then you only had enough faith for salvation, but nothing else.
Suffering for the name of Christ and for the Gospel.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Notice that it is men that persecute, not sicknesses and the like. You will not see anything in scripture where sicknesses, infirmities, or diseases are mentioned as suffering for the cause of Christ. If you do, then what Jesus did for you and I and the rest of the children of God, on the cross, was in vain.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Notice that it is men that persecute, not sicknesses and the like. You will not see anything in scripture where sicknesses, infirmities, or diseases are mentioned as suffering for the cause of Christ. If you do, then what Jesus did for you and I and the rest of the children of God, on the cross, was in vain.
I think it comes down to having Christ teachings as the example within the context of The Bible.
That is possible, usually we see what we want to see.
How foolish our nature can be?
And thank you for expanding on your post. People in general leave things up for interpretation and usually never say what they mean, in my opinion.
That is possible, usually we see what we want to see.
How foolish our nature can be?
And thank you for expanding on your post. People in general leave things up for interpretation and usually never say what they mean, in my opinion.
I don't like the teaching. If you have a strong relationship with God you wont' suffer (well, except for through violent men) What about someone in a wheelchair? someone with a disease? will we attack their faith? "Your faith isn't strong enough or you wouldn't be sick" I don't like the teaching. I don't think it's a loving perspective and there is 0 reasons to pursue an angle like that. What if God wants to strengthen you by bringing adversity? what about a small child having cancer? I don't think it is for us to decide what God does and does not intend. Do we see the invisible strings that guide us through the obstacle of life?
Just wanted to add to this.
One understanding of the teachings of Christ within the context of The Bible, will bring unity to the body of Christ. Not many different interpretations of any denomination will bring unity to the body of Christ. So if you and I have one understanding of Christ teaching we are united in the body of Christ regardless of what denomination we belong to, lol although if we believe the same we should part of the same denomination. I don't know if that made sense. :/
One understanding of the teachings of Christ within the context of The Bible, will bring unity to the body of Christ. Not many different interpretations of any denomination will bring unity to the body of Christ. So if you and I have one understanding of Christ teaching we are united in the body of Christ regardless of what denomination we belong to, lol although if we believe the same we should part of the same denomination. I don't know if that made sense. :/
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Yes. It is true.
But what about trivial matters, such as Sabbaths and ceremonies and sign gifts/cessationism?
When Believers put emphasis on such things, it is difficult for everyone to get along.
What about differences is eschatology (end times prophecy)? The views run very deep and strong.
Is it necessary for all to have one view of the End, or is it something that will work itself out as the events unfold?
But what about trivial matters, such as Sabbaths and ceremonies and sign gifts/cessationism?
When Believers put emphasis on such things, it is difficult for everyone to get along.
What about differences is eschatology (end times prophecy)? The views run very deep and strong.
Is it necessary for all to have one view of the End, or is it something that will work itself out as the events unfold?
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