The new covenant with Christ Jesus
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hebrew 8 the new covenent here does not start till , in those days happens.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, [the days come], saith the Lord,
[when] I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
- with both houses, they are not together yet, but God will bring both sticks together later.
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers [in the day] when I took them by
the hand to lead them [out of the land of Egypt;] because they continued not in my covenant,
and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
-- what covenent are they talking about ? in that day left egypt , not mt. sinia
in the wilderness before mount sinia or the ten commandents.
4Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day,
that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
“How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?(27-30)
-This incident happened prior to the giving of the Ten Commandments.
a gift: “See, for that the [Eternal]hath given you the sabbath …”
- or is it Gods Holy convocations as all of exodus 12, in the day they left egypt.
13And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it[ a feast by an ordinance for ever].
16And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
- so why do we selebrate easter and christmas and not Gods Holy days ?.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel [after those days],
11And they shall [not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother],
saying, Know the Lord: for [all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.]
- i still contend this has not happened yet. are you teaching things to people ?
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
-is every man now granted there sins and iniquities no more
Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is [ready] to vanish away.
-ready to does not mean it has, or that after those days are here now.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, [the days come], saith the Lord,
[when] I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
- with both houses, they are not together yet, but God will bring both sticks together later.
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers [in the day] when I took them by
the hand to lead them [out of the land of Egypt;] because they continued not in my covenant,
and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
-- what covenent are they talking about ? in that day left egypt , not mt. sinia
in the wilderness before mount sinia or the ten commandents.
4Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you;
and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day,
that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
“How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?(27-30)
-This incident happened prior to the giving of the Ten Commandments.
a gift: “See, for that the [Eternal]hath given you the sabbath …”
- or is it Gods Holy convocations as all of exodus 12, in the day they left egypt.
13And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it[ a feast by an ordinance for ever].
16And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
- so why do we selebrate easter and christmas and not Gods Holy days ?.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel [after those days],
11And they shall [not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother],
saying, Know the Lord: for [all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.]
- i still contend this has not happened yet. are you teaching things to people ?
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
-is every man now granted there sins and iniquities no more
Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is [ready] to vanish away.
-ready to does not mean it has, or that after those days are here now.
The topic here is the covenant, not the law.
Let's stay on topic.
And actually, one might want to understand the purpose of the book of Hebrews
in order to understand Heb 9-10.
The purpose of Hebrews is to show those, who were considering returning to Judaism because
of rejection and persecution by their families and friends, why they should not lapse back into Judaism.
The whole book is all about the superiority of the new order:
the superiority of God's new revelation (1:1-4),
the superiority of Christ to leaders of the old covenant (1:5--7:28) and
the superiority of the sacrificial work of our High Priest in
a better covenant (8:1-13),
a better sanctuary (9:1-12),
a better sacrifice (9:13--10:18),
concluding with an exhortation to believe and obey this new high priest of a better order (10:19-39).
At 6:13, in the second item in the above list of six, the writer begins giving reasons why
they should believe and hope (6:11,18,19, 7:19) in the new oath (covenant): because of
the certainty of God's promise (6:13--7:10),
the guarantee of a better covenant through a superior mediator (7:11-8:13),
faith in Christ is same as faith in OT, both have the same object of faith (9:1-10:18), and
concludes with an exhortation to believe and obey this new high priest of a better order (10:19-39).
Heb 7:11--8:13 is the context of Heb 8:1-6, where the shoehorning of theology
via the statement about the "temple" in vv. 2-3 occurs.
So let's start with that misstatement there.
Heb 8:1-6 states nothing about a "temple," it states "sanctuary" and "tabernacle."
Let's stay with the wording of the text, it doesn't need improvisation.
". . .because Jesus lives forever he has a permanent priesthood.
Therefore he is able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through him,
because he always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest meets our needs--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners,
exalted above the heavens.
Unlike other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins,
and then for the sins of the people.
He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
For the law appoints as high priest men who are weak; but the oath which came after the law,
appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever. (Heb 7:24-28)
The point of what we are saying is that we do have such a high priest,
who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man. (Heb 8:1-2)
(This refers to the heavenly sanctuary in heaven, not to any kind of temple on earth.)
. . .The high priests serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven.
That is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle:
'See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.'
But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs (high priests) as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one,
and it is founded on better promsies. (Heb 8:5-6)
The writer is saying that the heavenly reality is the sanctuary of God's presence,
into which Christ our high priest entered with his own blood (9:11-12).
Moses had to make everything in the tabernacle according to the pattern because
both the tabernacle and its ministry were intended to illustrate symbolically
the only way sinners may approach a holy God and find forgiveness.
Heb 8:1-6 is not about a "temple," and Heb 8:7-13 is about the old covenant which is now obsolete.
The whole chp. 8 is about the guarantee of a better covenant founded on better promises
which is why the old covenant is obsolete in 8:13,
as well as one of the reasons these Hebrews should not return to Judaism--its covenant is obsolete.
And then there are the warnings not to lapse back, for to do so would mean they will die in their sins
because they have rejected all over again the only sacrifice for sin.
Let's stay on topic.
And actually, one might want to understand the purpose of the book of Hebrews
in order to understand Heb 9-10.
The purpose of Hebrews is to show those, who were considering returning to Judaism because
of rejection and persecution by their families and friends, why they should not lapse back into Judaism.
The whole book is all about the superiority of the new order:
the superiority of God's new revelation (1:1-4),
the superiority of Christ to leaders of the old covenant (1:5--7:28) and
the superiority of the sacrificial work of our High Priest in
a better covenant (8:1-13),
a better sanctuary (9:1-12),
a better sacrifice (9:13--10:18),
concluding with an exhortation to believe and obey this new high priest of a better order (10:19-39).
At 6:13, in the second item in the above list of six, the writer begins giving reasons why
they should believe and hope (6:11,18,19, 7:19) in the new oath (covenant): because of
the certainty of God's promise (6:13--7:10),
the guarantee of a better covenant through a superior mediator (7:11-8:13),
faith in Christ is same as faith in OT, both have the same object of faith (9:1-10:18), and
concludes with an exhortation to believe and obey this new high priest of a better order (10:19-39).
Heb 7:11--8:13 is the context of Heb 8:1-6, where the shoehorning of theology
via the statement about the "temple" in vv. 2-3 occurs.
So let's start with that misstatement there.
Heb 8:1-6 states nothing about a "temple," it states "sanctuary" and "tabernacle."
Let's stay with the wording of the text, it doesn't need improvisation.
". . .because Jesus lives forever he has a permanent priesthood.
Therefore he is able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through him,
because he always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest meets our needs--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners,
exalted above the heavens.
Unlike other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins,
and then for the sins of the people.
He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
For the law appoints as high priest men who are weak; but the oath which came after the law,
appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever. (Heb 7:24-28)
The point of what we are saying is that we do have such a high priest,
who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man. (Heb 8:1-2)
(This refers to the heavenly sanctuary in heaven, not to any kind of temple on earth.)
. . .The high priests serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven.
That is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle:
'See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.'
But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs (high priests) as
the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one,
and it is founded on better promsies. (Heb 8:5-6)
The writer is saying that the heavenly reality is the sanctuary of God's presence,
into which Christ our high priest entered with his own blood (9:11-12).
Moses had to make everything in the tabernacle according to the pattern because
both the tabernacle and its ministry were intended to illustrate symbolically
the only way sinners may approach a holy God and find forgiveness.
Heb 8:1-6 is not about a "temple," and Heb 8:7-13 is about the old covenant which is now obsolete.
The whole chp. 8 is about the guarantee of a better covenant founded on better promises
which is why the old covenant is obsolete in 8:13,
as well as one of the reasons these Hebrews should not return to Judaism--its covenant is obsolete.
And then there are the warnings not to lapse back, for to do so would mean they will die in their sins
because they have rejected all over again the only sacrifice for sin.
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
how am i holier then God
when i say God gave the covent laws to Isreal not moses.
i appoligize for anything i have said wrong.
but you do not bring out the best of me but demean,
no way do i see you trying to lift up a fellow brother.
again i am sorry i need better control, and all need the grace of Christ.
we are all now begotten, not yet recieved are promised land
how am i holier then God
when i say God gave the covent laws to Isreal not moses.
i appoligize for anything i have said wrong.
but you do not bring out the best of me but demean,
no way do i see you trying to lift up a fellow brother.
again i am sorry i need better control, and all need the grace of Christ.
we are all now begotten, not yet recieved are promised land
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
The new covenant with Christ Jesus is commemorated with His blood. The new temple/tabernacle is sprinkled with the blood henceforth being pure in the sight of God.
Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Leviticus 4:6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Hebrews 9:8-14
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying , that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest , while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present , in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect , as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say , not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean , sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
How is the new covenant play out without the shedding of blood i.e. temple worship?
The new covenant with Christ Jesus is commemorated with His blood. The new temple/tabernacle is sprinkled with the blood henceforth being pure in the sight of God.
Hebrews 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Leviticus 4:6 And the priest shall dip his finger in the blood, and sprinkle of the blood seven times before the LORD, before the vail of the sanctuary.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Hebrews 9:8-14
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying , that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest , while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present , in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect , as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come , by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say , not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean , sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
How is the new covenant play out without the shedding of blood i.e. temple worship?
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H
I have just invested 2 plus hrs., studying the first 4 pages and the last 2 pages of this thread; And, I am more convinced of my solution to your problem: NONE of you have a clue to the Theme Of the Bible, you don't know GOD'S big picture, which is: God's Eternal Covenant of Grace, nor do you have the full understanding of the meaning of GRACE. If you did, you would not talk of Law vs. Grace, you would talk of the relationship between Gods Laws and God's Grace. I will keep saying this to my dying day, the Theme of the Bible is: God's Eternal Covenant of Grace, as seen in Rom.8:29-30. Based on God's eternal LOVE,"foreknew", God "predestined" certain ones to eternal life, these persons, He calls in time, "called". These SAME persons, God justifies in time, "justified". And ,these ones, God will perfect, in His time, at the "end", and give them the eternal reward, "glorified". This eternal "purpose" "covenant" of God ties all the covenants of the whole Bible together, as God is working out His eternal Cov. of Grace. Grace is God's undeserved POWER and MERCY. If we incorporate any thing from the Old Testament into the New Cov., it must be stated, in the Old, that it is Eternal, and/or the New Testament must confirm it as eternal and worthy to be placed along side of the New Cov. What the New Cov. rejects, must not be allowed with the New Cov. Love to all, Hoffco
Well spoken my friend. That's the entire point. The old that came previous works as a foundation to complete the new. Fulfillment means to complete God's intention from the beginning. That's the entire point. Where the modern church has failed is teaching that the old covenant is an adversary of the grace of God. That is so untrue.
1 John 2:7-8
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past , and the true light now shineth .
Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed , The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering , and abundant in goodness and truth,
1 John 2:7-8
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past , and the true light now shineth .
Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed , The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering , and abundant in goodness and truth,
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Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
Finally you're starting to read what I've been saying. The New cannot make the old better than it already was. The old was not complete before Christ. Now maybe someday you will understand that the old can contribute to the new in order for the new to have great substance, but not the other way around.
Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Reading the above would one think that this plan of God was to unfold with chronological events that were necessary for its fulfillment to be real and substantial? First things first. Without the old, there is nothing new. Hello
Finally you're starting to read what I've been saying. The New cannot make the old better than it already was. The old was not complete before Christ. Now maybe someday you will understand that the old can contribute to the new in order for the new to have great substance, but not the other way around.
Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Reading the above would one think that this plan of God was to unfold with chronological events that were necessary for its fulfillment to be real and substantial? First things first. Without the old, there is nothing new. Hello
[ not talk of Law vs. Grace, you would talk of the relationship between Gods Laws and God's Grace.]
i don't believe i ever argued about law or grace,
my point was there is more then one covenent,
and the new one does not override all the others given.
like Gods covent to David for sons to allways be on physical throne,
but the promise ends 400 years before Jesus.
or was told Jesus fullfilled the rainbow covent .
what Jesus commands to love, gives gays right to use the rainbow sign.
or the Sabbath covent for a sign done away.
i don't believe i ever argued about law or grace,
my point was there is more then one covenent,
and the new one does not override all the others given.
like Gods covent to David for sons to allways be on physical throne,
but the promise ends 400 years before Jesus.
or was told Jesus fullfilled the rainbow covent .
what Jesus commands to love, gives gays right to use the rainbow sign.
or the Sabbath covent for a sign done away.
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