Grace and Law are married....

[Scuba]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98192-grace-law-married-5.html#post1668093

 

[prove-all]

[Getting to the Jordan, offering a burnt offering,
and bringing your servants may prove to be a problem...
are you sure we are under that law?]


i never said i was under the levite law, but myself honor and not forsake them like verse says.

 

[Scuba]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

I'm sure we are all aware of that rule of interpretation Scuba...context, context, context; and although not as extensive as Atwood, Romans has been my specialty when compared to other books of the bible. BTW, I find Paul rather straightforward thus easier than most to understand.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98192-grace-law-married-5.html#post1668093

 

[crossnote]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

So, we are dead to the Law and alive to CHRIST and so now we don't have a Law for guidance anymore? That is why this proves we have a lot of denomination, traditions and doctrine of men and we are so divided and never in 'oneness'. This shows we are still babes in CHRIST, even in practices to the New Covenant and living to the necessities and pleasure of this world and our fruit never ripen.

Rather this shows that there are some that put words in the mouth of others.
First, do you disagree that we are dead to the law and alive to Christ?

For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. (Gal 2:19)


Second how do you I believe there is no 'law' for guidance anymore?
I hold that through the new birth we have God's nature (law) written on our hearts. Jer 31:31.
All you have proven in your haste is that you jump to false conclusions creating divisions...and I won't go on.

 

[crossnote]

Grace and Law are married

For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (Joh 1:16-17)

 

[crossnote]

[Getting to the Jordan, offering a burnt offering,
and bringing your servants may prove to be a problem...
are you sure we are under that law?]


i never said i was under the levite law, but myself honor and not forsake them like verse says.

How do you honor them if you don't do them?

 

[Scuba]

For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (Joh 1:16-17)

You still have not reconciled with this even though you say you are very well versed in Scripture and the teachings of Paul are very clear to you. Even Peter said they are hard to understand...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98192-grace-law-married-5.html#post1668093

 

[crossnote]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

What sayeth thou?

Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Paul is asking a rhetorical question and of course the answer is 'no' we should not sin. But the answer begs the question 'how'?

Rom 8, tells how
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom 8:3-4)

and
Gal 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
(Gal 2:20-21)

 

[Scuba]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Paul is asking a rhetorical question and of course the answer is 'no' we should not sin. But the answer begs the question 'how'?

Rom 8, tells how
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom 8:3-4)

and
Gal 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
(Gal 2:20-21)

Tell me something, under your present belief system is it sin to commit adultery, worship other gods, use God's name in vain, dishonor our parents, worship idols, forget to keep the seventh day holy, murder, steal, lie and so on?

 

[crossnote]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Tell me something, under your present belief system is it sin to commit adultery, worship other gods, use God's name in vain, dishonor our parents, worship idols, forget to keep the seventh day holy, murder, steal, lie and so on?

Uh uh. My turn...

Are you born again?
Is God's nature (law) written on your heart through the new birth?
Do you have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
Do you follow the written code on stone or the one in your heart?

Is the following true of you?

But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
(2Co 3:16-18)

 

[fredjames]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Rather this shows that there are some that put words in the mouth of others.
First, do you disagree that we are dead to the law and alive to Christ?

For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. (Gal 2:19)


Second how do you I believe there is no 'law' for guidance anymore?
I hold that through the new birth we have God's nature (law) written on our hearts. Jer 31:31.
All you have proven in your haste is that you jump to false conclusions creating divisions...and I won't go on.

If GOD's nature(law) is written in our hearts, then why the New Covenant is written? It is written so that what is written in our hearts and in faith action must witness according that written given New established Covenant. And what is written called the New Covenant, HE makes with HIS New people resurrected with CHRIST.

Are we not employees who have agreed upon the terms and condition, rules and regulations written in this given Covenant, which the employer made with us to remember them all as we partake the Holy Communion?

Why not the written New Covenant reflect in the employee's behavior and in their practices? They have gone ahead of CHRIST, who have given them the HOLY BIBLE.

This thing you confess of from the saying of the Prophets, about GOD is going to write HIS laws in their hearts, is not concerning you Gentiles, but concerning the Apostles who did not have any documentation, but were preaching and teaching the Kingdom of GOD, through CHRIST. How did they become authors of the New Covenant for CHRIST without any documentation?

But we have the HOLY BIBLE and the HOLY SPIRIT who inspired them through the Apostles to be written and they have become documentation facts for our living, imitating and witnessing today in our hearts. It was not naturally written in our hearts but the HOLY SPIRIT have taught us using HIS HOLY BIBLE.

So please let us not sadly represent ourselves as hypocrites claiming what is not spoken of us according to the Scripture.

 

[achduke]

Take care that you do not neglect the Levite as long as you live in your land.
(Deu 12:19)
Well here are just a few of the commandments that attend your admonition in Deuteronomy...

But when you go over the Jordan and live in the land that the LORD your God is giving you to inherit, and when he gives you rest from all your enemies around, so that you live in safety, then to the place that the LORD your God will choose, to make his name dwell there, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution that you present, and all your finest vow offerings that you vow to the LORD. And you shall rejoice before the LORD your God, you and your sons and your daughters, your male servants and your female servants, and the Levite that is within your towns, since he has no portion or inheritance with you. Take care that you do not offer your burnt offerings at any place that you see, but at the place that the LORD will choose in one of your tribes, there you shall offer your burnt offerings, and there you shall do all that I am commanding you. "However, you may slaughter and eat meat within any of your towns, as much as you desire, according to the blessing of the LORD your God that he has given you. The unclean and the clean may eat of it, as of the gazelle and as of the deer. Only you shall not eat the blood; you shall pour it out on the earth like water. You may not eat within your towns the tithe of your grain or of your wine or of your oil, or the firstborn of your herd or of your flock, or any of your vow offerings that you vow, or your freewill offerings or the contribution that you present, but you shall eat them before the LORD your God in the place that the LORD your God will choose, you and your son and your daughter, your male servant and your female servant, and the Levite who is within your towns. And you shall rejoice before the LORD your God in all that you undertake.
(Deu 12:10-18)

Getting to the Jordan, offering a burnt offering, and bringing your servants may prove to be a problem...are you sure we are under that law?

Hi Crossnote,

The Levite Priests system is currently not functioning. I have never personally met a Levite and if I have they were not currently annoited as priests. Also there is no physical temple in Jerusalem to perform Sacrifices and Burnt offerings even it we had an annoited priest in Jerusalem to perform the ceremony. Christ is now our high priest and he is also the temple of God.

 

[Scuba]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Uh uh. My turn...

Are you born again?
Is God's nature (law) written on your heart through the new birth?
Do you have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
Do you follow the written code on stone or the one in your heart?

Is the following true of you?

But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
(2Co 3:16-18)

So is that a yes or a no?

Do you see the dilemma you're in. You speak as though the Law is done and gone yet you can't answer a simple question under that present belief system. Let me tell you the answer, they are wrong and sinful. The Law is not done away with and will never be done away with. These things will always be the standard of godly love.

 

[psychomom]

[talk about the Deliverer. the Redeemer the ONLY Law Keeper. ♥]

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,

and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


For this is the covenant that I will make with
the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.


For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before
for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Keep me as the apple of the eye, hide me under the shadow of thy wings,​

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into
the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:​

if you mean these verses as what Jesus did for us...

then i applaud.

 

[achduke]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Psalm 119:160All your words are true;

all your righteous laws are eternal.

 

[psychomom]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98192-grace-law-married-5.html#post1668093

Grace and Law were married at the cross of Christ.
that's where the God Who justly makes the demand
fully kept the demand.

we want to make Christianity all about us.
news flash!
it isn't.
we want a checklist version of Christianity so we can feel we're somehow
adding something to what Jesus did.
it's narcissistic, frankly.
i don't mean we are not to obey, but we fall into this idea it's our 'doing'.

our doing IS His doing.

 

[Scuba]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Psalm 119:160All your words are true;

all your righteous laws are eternal.

The word, eternal, in the above verse is the mistranslated Hebrew word, justuntilthechurch. Translated in English (eternal) means, just until the church.

 

[crossnote]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

:1 Or are ye ignorant, brethren (for I speak to men who know the law), that the law hath dominion over a man for so long time as he liveth? 2 For the woman that hath a husband is bound by law to the husband while he liveth; but if the husband die, she is discharged from the law of the husband. 3 So then if, while the husband liveth, she be joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if the husband die, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be joined to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.


7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Let it not be so. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet: 8 but sin, finding occasion, wrought in me through the commandment all manner of coveting: for apart from the law sin is dead. 9 And I was alive apart from the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died; 10 and the commandment, which was unto life, this I found to be unto death: 11 for sin, finding occasion, through the commandment beguiled me, and through it slew me.

< Rom 7

If GOD's nature(law) is written in our hearts, then why the New Covenant is written? It is written so that what is written in our hearts and in faith action must witness according that written given New established Covenant. And what is written called the New Covenant, HE makes with HIS New people resurrected with CHRIST.

Are we not employees who have agreed upon the terms and condition, rules and regulations written in this given Covenant, which the employer made with us to remember them all as we partake the Holy Communion?

Why not the written New Covenant reflect in the employee's behavior and in their practices? They have gone ahead of CHRIST, who have given them the HOLY BIBLE.

This thing you confess of from the saying of the Prophets, about GOD is going to write HIS laws in their hearts, is not concerning you Gentiles, but concerning the Apostles who did not have any documentation, but were preaching and teaching the Kingdom of GOD, through CHRIST. How did they become authors of the New Covenant for CHRIST without any documentation?

But we have the HOLY BIBLE and the HOLY SPIRIT who inspired them through the Apostles to be written and they have become documentation facts for our living, imitating and witnessing today in our hearts. It was not naturally written in our hearts but the HOLY SPIRIT have taught us using HIS HOLY BIBLE.

So please let us not sadly represent ourselves as hypocrites claiming what is not spoken of us according to the Scripture.

yes yes we have the Scriptures and this is what it says...
Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

...repeated in Hebrews
Also...
2 Corinthians 3:3-8 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

It would help if some of you used scripture to back up your claims.

 

[crossnote]

Hi Crossnote,

The Levite Priests system is currently not functioning. I have never personally met a Levite and if I have they were not currently annoited as priests. Also there is no physical temple in Jerusalem to perform Sacrifices and Burnt offerings even it we had an annoited priest in Jerusalem to perform the ceremony. Christ is now our high priest and he is also the temple of God.

I know ...Heb 7. But my response was to someone who threw the Levite into the mix. So if they want Levites they have to go all the way and do all the law.

 

[crossnote]

Re: Grace and Law are married or Divorced? or Dead to the First Husband (Law)?

Uh uh. My turn...

Are you born again?
Is God's nature (law) written on your heart through the new birth?
Do you have the indwelling Holy Spirit?
Do you follow the written code on stone or the one in your heart?

Is the following true of you?

But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
(2Co 3:16-18)

So is that a yes or a no?

Do you see the dilemma you're in. You speak as though the Law is done and gone yet you can't answer a simple question under that present belief system. Let me tell you the answer, they are wrong and sinful. The Law is not done away with and will never be done away with. These things will always be the standard of godly love.

I answered you on post #108. It's your turn to answer my question above, otherwise you are just playing 'gotcha' and I'm not interested.