The new covenant with Christ Jesus

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

The OT may improve the understanding of the NT,
but the OT does not improve the substance of the NT.

The OT is the NT concealed, the NT is the OT revealed.

Now we can agree on that. The understanding of the New is enhanced by the Old.

Leviticus 26:9-10
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful , and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store , and bring forth the old because of the new.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Now we can agree on that. The understanding of the New is enhanced by the Old.

Leviticus 26:9-10
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful , and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store , and bring forth the old because of the new.

So where does that leave us on:

Which is why you cannot add the new covenant to the old covenant,
nor renew the old covenant to the new covenant.

 

[royalscot]

god can save who he want( ie enoch, elijah)
in order to save those under the old or new, death has to be conquered. (there will be a reserection)
but in order to a new believer (in this day and age).
there is the new covenent, ie what covenent did he tell you to follow, because there is only one covenent you can follow.
(70 ad).

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Originally Posted by just-me

Now we can agree on that. The understanding of the New is enhanced by the Old.

Leviticus 26:9-10
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful , and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store , and bring forth the old because of the new.

So where does that leave us on:

Is that a question that cannot be answered or a statement that I can't understand?

and then you write
Which is why you cannot add the new covenant to the old covenant,
nor renew the old covenant to the new covenant.

 

[chubbena]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

If you have something to say about Heb 9-10, present your Scriptural demonstration of Heb 9-10,

and we'll go from there.

Same answer:One might want to read Hebrews 9 to understand what was to set aside in Hebrews 7:18-19 and what would become obsolete Hebrews 8:13. And, of course, to read Hebrews 10 to see which part of the law was changed.

Unless one has difficulty reading a whole chapter and hangs on a certain verse.
Worship in the earthly tabernacle i.e. temple worship was set aside and became obsolete.
Sacrificial law was changed.

 

[chubbena]

Just one quick question for the OP. I don't recall Him saying His covenant is temporary, is to be replaced at a later stage or anything like that at the time He established each and everyone with man. Do you?

 

[just-me]

Just one quick question for the OP. I don't recall Him saying His covenant is temporary, is to be replaced at a later stage or anything like that at the time He established each and everyone with man. Do you?

If God doesn't change, and Jesus is the same yesterday, today , and forever, nothing can change the promise/covenant made and fulfilled in Christ Jesus. When temporary, or change is mentioned, it has to do with God's children and not the words he has spoken since the beginning. The reason that the old needed to come first is for us who believe we also were brought forth from the old life into a new life. The old is carnal and physical as we were before being ushered into a new life, but that doesn't make God's words in the old of no effect. The new is the temple made without hands and a priesthood that no longer is passed on to the priest's descendants. We now have a High Priest that will never die. Blood sacrifice has always been the main ingredient of both old and new to consecrate and confirm all covenants God ever made with man.

Our obligation is to follow in righteousness, not by works of self, but by the works of faith commanded in the entire plan that was established before the creation of heaven and earth. There is one covenant that incorporates all of that plan that was established and put into action step by step according to the perfection of our Father in heaven.

 

[royalscot]

Just one quick question for the OP. I don't recall Him saying His covenant is temporary, is to be replaced at a later stage or anything like that at the time He established each and everyone with man. Do you?

ask the romans, 70 ad. did this leave the new covenent believers, with no temple to talk to god. or none christain jews without a covenent. ie the old, law and decrees. etc

 

[just-me]

ask the romans, 70 ad. did this leave the new covenent believers, with no temple to talk to god. or none christain jews without a covenent. ie the old, law and decrees. etc

No. The only thing they lost was the physical remnants of the temple made by the hand of man according to the ordinances that came from God Almighty. The Spiritual aspects however still remain. When the writer of Hebrews talks about the temple in chapter 8 verses 1-6 he follows through with his explanations starting with verse 7. (I'm leaving out the added word "covenant" in the next 3 verses that I will quote for better understanding.

" For if that first had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second."

Then in verse 13 along with the 1st verse in the next chapter we read, " In that he saith , A new, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Then verily the first had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary."

By using the word "new" He has made the first covenant "old." Something being made old is aging and ready to vanish all together. So when speaking of the first we see it's related to ordinances of a worldly sanctuary being the physical temple that was established with the "old" covenant. Now, we are the temple of the living God, and our high Priest is Jesus Christ.

Then the writer goes on after the 1st verse in chapter 9 to explain the ordinances of the old temple and how they are inferior to the new covenant which is better and finalized.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

If you have something to say about Heb 9-10,
present your Scriptural demonstration of Heb 9-10, and we'll go from there.

Same answer:One might want to read Hebrews 9 to understand what was to set aside in Hebrews 7:18-19 and what would become obsolete Hebrews 8:13. And, of course, to read Hebrews 10 to see which part of the law was changed.

Unless one has difficulty reading a whole chapter and hangs on a certain verse.
Worship in the earthly tabernacle i.e. temple worship was set aside and became obsolete.
Sacrificial law was changed.

Same answer here. . .and I'll raise it to

unless one has difficulty committing to a Scriptueal presentation of Heb 9-10 in the context of the whole book.

 

[cfultz3]

We must keep in mind that Jesus was made a man UNDER the law of the Old Testament and have to keep it, perfectly, and He did; Then Jesus prepare his disciple for the new Covenant which would be inaugurated by the Holy Spirit's teaching them the new and reminding them of the stories, parables, that Jesus used to introduce them to the new ways of the New Cov.. Jesus told them, the new would not fit into the old. The rest of the New Testament tells us how radically different is the New Cov.. This is not taught by some of us who hang so hard onto the old ways. You are sinning greatly against the new Cov.. Jesus personally appeared to Paul and personally taught Paul. the New Cov. We MUST listen to the changes in the New Cov . in the New Testament. Love Hoffco

My Friend,

Has God's Will changed? No, the LORD is the same from all eternity to all eternity. From the lips of our LORD who took upon Himself flesh, He has told us what is pleasing before Him.

Does He not still require of us to walk righteously before Him? Yes, and by placing our confidence in Him, our LORD, we trust His Holy Spirit He Himself sent and walk the path He requires to reach the Promised Land.

Does He not say that love fulfills that Will? Yes, love has always been His Will for us.

Let us, therefore, walk according to Love, and, by which, we do fulfill His eternal Law.

Yet, if we reject what He has told us to be His Will, how, then, can we concur with His Spirit when we are corrected from having erred?

The Law = fulfilled by love.

If love fulfills the Law, then it is the Law which is need of being fulfilled. Indeed, only the method has changed, not God's will.

Chris

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

That you describe is true in part, yet somewhat incomplete.
It is very true the the new will not fit into the old. When Jesus described that scenario, using wine as the example,
He was teaching that the old cannot be perfected by adding the new to it.
Nevertheless, the old can be incorporated into the new.

That's not Scripture talking, that's just-me talking. . .shoe horning again.

We are not at liberty to "improve" on what Jesus said with our own principles affixed to it;
i.e., "the old can be incorporated into the new,"

nor to "improve" it by extraneous meanings imposed upon it; i.e., "the old cannot be perfected by adding the new to it."

Now I will finish my original statement that you didn't quote
If the old wineskin is already expanded to its maximum diameter
it will break if it has to expand any more. I interject this verse speaking of the new covenant.

Which is why you cannot add the new covenant to the old covenant,
nor renew the old covenant to the new covenant.

The OT may improve the understanding of the NT,
but the OT does not improve the substance of the NT.

The OT is the NT concealed, the NT is the OT revealed.

Now we can agree on that. The understanding of the New is enhanced by the Old.

So where does that leave us on:

"Which is why you cannot add the new covenant to the old covenant, nor renew the old covenant to the new covenant."

Is that a question that cannot be answered or a statement that I can't understand?

No, that is picking up where we left off before agreeing,
and asking where we stand on it now.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

No, that is picking up where we left off before agreeing,
and asking where we stand on it now.

From the other thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97847-nothing-new-about-new-covenant.html post 305 and 305 that I have asked you to answer 4 times and still haven't received one yet
I want you to tell me how the New Covenant works without sacrifice. I think that's a straight and forward question.

Looking for understanding that I can agree to

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Which is why you cannot add the new covenant to the old covenant,
nor renew the old covenant to the new covenant.

The OT may improve the understanding of the NT,
but the OT does not improve the substance of the NT.

The OT is the NT concealed, the NT is the OT revealed.

Now we can agree on that. The understanding of the New is enhanced by the Old.

So where does that leave us on the above statement:

"Which is why you cannot add the new covenant to the old covenant, nor renew the old covenant to the new covenant."

Is that a question that cannot be answered or a statement that I can't understand?

No, that is picking up where we left off before agreeing, and asking where we stand on it now.

From the other thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97847-nothing-new-about-new-covenant.html post 305 and 305 that I have asked you to answer 4 times and still haven't received one yet
I want you to tell me how the New Covenant works without sacrifice. I think that's a straight and forward question.

Looking for understanding that I can agree to

So you want to change the subject here and jump ship. . .er, I mean threads.

My answer is the same as it is there:

in order to answer that question, I need you to tell me what are the promises of the new covenant.

 

[RedTent]

there is the new covenent, ie what covenent did he tell you to follow, because there is only one covenent you can follow.
(70 ad).

The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic, Davidic, Adamic, Noahic and New. Other covenants are mentioned, such as the salt covenant. According to you, God was pretty busy taking back any agreement God ever made between God and man, or else you are quite busy cancelling any part you have in any agreement with the Lord but one. What do you do when a rainbow shows in the sky as a sign of one of the covenants?

 

[just-me]

The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic, Davidic, Adamic, Noahic and New. Other covenants are mentioned, such as the salt covenant. According to you, God was pretty busy taking back any agreement God ever made between God and man, or else you are quite busy cancelling any part you have in any agreement with the Lord but one. What do you do when a rainbow shows in the sky as a sign of one of the covenants?

The old and new are like metamorphosis. A caterpillar eventually turns into a butterfly. Neither one looks like the other or even acts like the other. Nevertheless, if the caterpillar is killed there will be no butterfly, and if the old is void, destroyed, or vanished away there can be no new. God made it that way.

John 3:11-12
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know , and testify that we have seen ; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe , if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[Elin]

The Bible speaks of seven different covenants, Abrahamic, Palestinian, Mosaic, Davidic, Adamic, Noahic and New.

Actually, the seven covenants in the Bible are:
Noahic
2 Abrahamic (one is your Palestinian)
Sinaitic (Mosaic)
Phinehas
Davidic
New

Three remain in force (Noahic, Abrahamic, New) the others have either been fulfilled, or made obsolete.

 

[chubbena]

ask the romans, 70 ad. did this leave the new covenent believers, with no temple to talk to god. or none christain jews without a covenent. ie the old, law and decrees. etc

Please elaborate. I asked the question because I don't remember reading Him saying any covenant He's made was temporary. I'm convinced that the covenants from Adam to this new one only reveal His Holiness first to Adam then to all the world and how He always wants man to be the same and without such no one can be with Him.

 

[chubbena]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Same answer here. . .and I'll raise it to

unless one has difficulty committing to a Scriptueal presentation of Heb 9-10 in the context of the whole book.

Indeed.
Worship in the earthly tabernacle i.e. temple worship was set aside and became obsolete.
Sacrificial law was changed.

 

[just-us-2]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Studying the covenants is a good thing, but I noticed when I studied the subject several months ago, there is a difference between the covenants made with the individuals like David, Noah, etc. and the covenants He made with mankind as a whole. Not sure I explained that right but what I found as I studied can be seen on this thread: The New Covenant Wine Is All of God’s Word
or here: Covenants