John 8:41
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He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, yet the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God. And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth. John witnesses concerning Him, and has cried out, saying, This One was He of whom I said, He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me. And out of His fullness we all received, and grace on top of grace. For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him.(John 1.10 – 18)
Scripture clearly informs the reader that the Word occupied flesh when He was in the world and that He was beheld as The Glory of God.
That the second person of the Trinity occupied flesh before being born of a woman and being referred to as God The Son, is made crystal clear by John’s proclamation that ‘He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me’.This is a full admission that The Son was manifest both before John’s time and after John’s time.
These early manifestations of The Son, The God-man, consisted of The Word of Yahweh, Malek Yahweh, El Shaddai, etc, etc…
He was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, yet the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God. And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and of truth. John witnesses concerning Him, and has cried out, saying, This One was He of whom I said, He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me. And out of His fullness we all received, and grace on top of grace. For the Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, that One declares Him.(John 1.10 – 18)
Scripture clearly informs the reader that the Word occupied flesh when He was in the world and that He was beheld as The Glory of God.
That the second person of the Trinity occupied flesh before being born of a woman and being referred to as God The Son, is made crystal clear by John’s proclamation that ‘He coming after me has been before me, for He was preceding me’.This is a full admission that The Son was manifest both before John’s time and after John’s time.
These early manifestations of The Son, The God-man, consisted of The Word of Yahweh, Malek Yahweh, El Shaddai, etc, etc…
no, i don't believe Jesus was a Samaritan at all!
i don't believe He was born of Joseph either! but He was born to Joseph's house. since we know from chapter 6 that his family were known, and we know their bloodline, the only way it makes sense to me for someone to call Him a Samaritan is to be rejecting the virgin birth and slandering Mary's virtue, insinuating Jesus had some pagan-ethnic earthly father.
so Jesus is defending His birth - of God - through this whole exchange with the Pharisees. the Pharisees don't understand Him at all; they only think in an earthly way - but God is spirit, and Jesus was born of spirit and flesh. i do think that in 8:41 specifically they thought Jesus was calling them 'children of fornication' in the sense of questioning their earthly genealogy, and responded in kind, but Jesus was in fact talking about spiritual fatherhood. they didn't get it.
i think it's true - this conversation is about a lot of things, and one of those things was Christ's virgin birth. i think the Pharisees disbelieved it, and that gives their speech with Him an undertone. these were the most learned men in the community, and they knew how to speak cleverly.
thanks! i see another side to this i hadn't seen before
i don't believe He was born of Joseph either! but He was born to Joseph's house. since we know from chapter 6 that his family were known, and we know their bloodline, the only way it makes sense to me for someone to call Him a Samaritan is to be rejecting the virgin birth and slandering Mary's virtue, insinuating Jesus had some pagan-ethnic earthly father.
so Jesus is defending His birth - of God - through this whole exchange with the Pharisees. the Pharisees don't understand Him at all; they only think in an earthly way - but God is spirit, and Jesus was born of spirit and flesh. i do think that in 8:41 specifically they thought Jesus was calling them 'children of fornication' in the sense of questioning their earthly genealogy, and responded in kind, but Jesus was in fact talking about spiritual fatherhood. they didn't get it.
i think it's true - this conversation is about a lot of things, and one of those things was Christ's virgin birth. i think the Pharisees disbelieved it, and that gives their speech with Him an undertone. these were the most learned men in the community, and they knew how to speak cleverly.
thanks! i see another side to this i hadn't seen beforeJesus, Himself, said...
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father; there is one accusing you, Moses, in whom you have hoped. For if you were believing Moses, you would then believe Me; for that one wrote concerning Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My Words? (John 5.45 - 47)
Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father; there is one accusing you, Moses, in whom you have hoped. For if you were believing Moses, you would then believe Me; for that one wrote concerning Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My Words? (John 5.45 - 47)
I don't know how to type an equal sign with a mark thru it, so I just typed it in red.
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here you go: ≠
i like to use this webpage to type math and then copy/paste:
Type mathematical symbols - online keyboard
It's like a musical piece being played back and forth in rhythm between the spiritual and the physical.
Verse 15 - Jesus says the Pharisees judge according to the flesh (Physical)
Verse 16 - Jesus says He judges with the Father (Spiritual)
Verse 17 - The Law of the testimony (Scripture) of two people is valid (Spiritual)
Verse 18 - Jesus and the Father both testify (Spiritual)
Verse 19a - Pharisees said, "Where is your Father?" (Physical)
Verse 19b - Jesus says they do not know him or the Father (Spiritual)
Verse 21 - Jesus said
He is going away & they could not follow; And they would die in their sins (Spiritual)
Verse 22 - Pharisees mocked Jesus' words as if he said He would kill himself (Physical)
Verse 23a - Jesus said, the Pharisee are from beneath and of this world (Physical) (Bad Spiritual)
Verse 23b - Jesus said, He was from above and not of this world (Spiritual)
Verse 24 - Jesus said they will die in their sins if they do not believe who He was (Spiritual)
Verse 26 - Jesus says He speaks to the world those things that the Father told Him to say (Spiritual)
Verse 27 - The Pharisees did not understand that Jesus spoke of God the Father (Physical)
Verse 28 - Jesus says when they have lifted up the Son of Man they will know (Spiritual)
Verse 29 - Jesus says the Father is with Him (Spiritual)
Verse 30 - Many believed (Spiritual)
Verse 31 - Jesus said to those Jews which believed to continue in His Word (Spiritual)
Verse 32 - Jesus said you shall know the truth and it shall set you free (Spiritual)
Verse 33 - Pharisees said they are of Abraham's seed and are not in bondage to any man (Physical)
Verse 34 - Jesus said whoseover commits sin is the servant of sin (Spiritual)
Verse 35 - He said
A bondservant does not remain in the house forever but a son remains forever (Spiritual)
Verse 36 - He said if the Son makes you free you are free indeed (Spiritual)
Verse 37a - Jesus said that He knows they are Abraham's offspring (Physical)
Verse 37b - He also says that they seek to kill Him because His Word finds no place in them (Spiritual)
Verse 38a - Jesus speaks that which He has seen with the Father (Spiritual)
Verse 38b - He also says
They do which they have seen (Physical) of their father (the devil) (Bad Spiritual)
Verse 39a - Pharisees said Abraham is their father (Physical)
Verse 39b - Jesus replied, if Abraham was their father, they would do his works (Spiritual)
Verse 40 - Jesus said they seek to kill Him (Physical) who told them a truth from God (Spiritual)
Verse 41a - Jesus said they do the deeds (Physical) of their father (devil) (Bad Spiritual)
Verse 41b - Pharisees replied, "We be not born of fornication" (Physical)
Verse 41c - Pharisees continue to say, "We have one Father, even God" (Self Deceived Spiritually)
Verse 42 - Jesus said if God was their Father, they would love Him (Spiritual)
Verse 43a - Jesus said,
"Why do ye not understand my speech?" (i.e. their lack of understanding) (Physical)
Verse 43b - Jesus tells it is because they do not hear His Word (For hearing His word is Spiritual)
Verse 15 - Jesus says the Pharisees judge according to the flesh (Physical)
Verse 16 - Jesus says He judges with the Father (Spiritual)
Verse 17 - The Law of the testimony (Scripture) of two people is valid (Spiritual)
Verse 18 - Jesus and the Father both testify (Spiritual)
Verse 19a - Pharisees said, "Where is your Father?" (Physical)
Verse 19b - Jesus says they do not know him or the Father (Spiritual)
Verse 21 - Jesus said
He is going away & they could not follow; And they would die in their sins (Spiritual)
Verse 22 - Pharisees mocked Jesus' words as if he said He would kill himself (Physical)
Verse 23a - Jesus said, the Pharisee are from beneath and of this world (Physical) (Bad Spiritual)
Verse 23b - Jesus said, He was from above and not of this world (Spiritual)
Verse 24 - Jesus said they will die in their sins if they do not believe who He was (Spiritual)
Verse 26 - Jesus says He speaks to the world those things that the Father told Him to say (Spiritual)
Verse 27 - The Pharisees did not understand that Jesus spoke of God the Father (Physical)
Verse 28 - Jesus says when they have lifted up the Son of Man they will know (Spiritual)
Verse 29 - Jesus says the Father is with Him (Spiritual)
Verse 30 - Many believed (Spiritual)
Verse 31 - Jesus said to those Jews which believed to continue in His Word (Spiritual)
Verse 32 - Jesus said you shall know the truth and it shall set you free (Spiritual)
Verse 33 - Pharisees said they are of Abraham's seed and are not in bondage to any man (Physical)
Verse 34 - Jesus said whoseover commits sin is the servant of sin (Spiritual)
Verse 35 - He said
A bondservant does not remain in the house forever but a son remains forever (Spiritual)
Verse 36 - He said if the Son makes you free you are free indeed (Spiritual)
Verse 37a - Jesus said that He knows they are Abraham's offspring (Physical)
Verse 37b - He also says that they seek to kill Him because His Word finds no place in them (Spiritual)
Verse 38a - Jesus speaks that which He has seen with the Father (Spiritual)
Verse 38b - He also says
They do which they have seen (Physical) of their father (the devil) (Bad Spiritual)
Verse 39a - Pharisees said Abraham is their father (Physical)
Verse 39b - Jesus replied, if Abraham was their father, they would do his works (Spiritual)
Verse 40 - Jesus said they seek to kill Him (Physical) who told them a truth from God (Spiritual)
Verse 41a - Jesus said they do the deeds (Physical) of their father (devil) (Bad Spiritual)
Verse 41b - Pharisees replied, "We be not born of fornication" (Physical)
Verse 41c - Pharisees continue to say, "We have one Father, even God" (Self Deceived Spiritually)
Verse 42 - Jesus said if God was their Father, they would love Him (Spiritual)
Verse 43a - Jesus said,
"Why do ye not understand my speech?" (i.e. their lack of understanding) (Physical)
Verse 43b - Jesus tells it is because they do not hear His Word (For hearing His word is Spiritual)
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Okay, lets review: As I pointed out before, verse 37 makes it clear that Jesus knows they are of Abraham's seed. So the Pharisees' statement in John 8:41 cannot be in relation to them being born of any physical illegitimacy in regards to Abraham.
Jesus said in verse 43 that they did not understand his speech. So they were not following along with what he said in regards to them doing the deeds of their father in verse 41 (i.e. verse 41a as shown above). It was only later (after verse 41) they said he had a devil, when Jesus said they are of their father the devil. They did not understand what Jesus said before that when Jesus said they do the deeds of their father. So the statement made by the Pharisees, "We are not born of fornication" is not one that is speaking about being born falsely of spiritual fornication. It was not speaking in spiritual terms because they did not understand his speech.
I mean think about it. Being born of fornication spiritually? Really? Nicodemus didn't understand about being born again spiritually. Are we really to believe that the Pharisees that were attacking Jesus here in John 8 were any smarter? i doubt it. They were insulting Jesus with a false rumor that sounded good to them because their sin and wickedness was exposed. They were attacking verbally, just as many other self professing Christians attack other brethren every day out of hate and not love in many Christian forums and in church, etc.
Jesus said in verse 43 that they did not understand his speech. So they were not following along with what he said in regards to them doing the deeds of their father in verse 41 (i.e. verse 41a as shown above). It was only later (after verse 41) they said he had a devil, when Jesus said they are of their father the devil. They did not understand what Jesus said before that when Jesus said they do the deeds of their father. So the statement made by the Pharisees, "We are not born of fornication" is not one that is speaking about being born falsely of spiritual fornication. It was not speaking in spiritual terms because they did not understand his speech.
I mean think about it. Being born of fornication spiritually? Really? Nicodemus didn't understand about being born again spiritually. Are we really to believe that the Pharisees that were attacking Jesus here in John 8 were any smarter? i doubt it. They were insulting Jesus with a false rumor that sounded good to them because their sin and wickedness was exposed. They were attacking verbally, just as many other self professing Christians attack other brethren every day out of hate and not love in many Christian forums and in church, etc.
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Side Note:
Oh, and when I say that the Pharisees' sin and wickedness was exposed, I am not saying Jesus exposed each and every one of their sins; I am referring to how their darkness was exposed by being near Him. For they hated the Light of Jesus and loved their darkness of their own evil deeds. That is why they were so hateful and defensive; Whereby they made wrongful accusations against Him. (Anyways, as for the darkness hating the Light: See the "Condemnation" as mentioned in Scripture in John 3:19-21).
Oh, and when I say that the Pharisees' sin and wickedness was exposed, I am not saying Jesus exposed each and every one of their sins; I am referring to how their darkness was exposed by being near Him. For they hated the Light of Jesus and loved their darkness of their own evil deeds. That is why they were so hateful and defensive; Whereby they made wrongful accusations against Him. (Anyways, as for the darkness hating the Light: See the "Condemnation" as mentioned in Scripture in John 3:19-21).
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I read several statements that lead me to believe that there are some that do not understand:
1) Most Israelites were not Jews; BUT Jews are Israelites
2) Samaritans were from the 10 tribes (of Israel) that abandoned King Rehoboam after Solomon died
3) The Jews looked down on Samaritans ( the "other" Israelites) because they had abandoned God (as if the Jews didn't struggle with the same issues)
Jews were from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
1) Most Israelites were not Jews; BUT Jews are Israelites
2) Samaritans were from the 10 tribes (of Israel) that abandoned King Rehoboam after Solomon died
3) The Jews looked down on Samaritans ( the "other" Israelites) because they had abandoned God (as if the Jews didn't struggle with the same issues)
Jews were from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin.
I wasn't saying that they were! Did I say that Mary or Joseph were Samaritans? - No. But they were Israelites because all Jews were Israelites.
However, I will point out (even though I think someone already did) that Jesus was not concerned about the accusation that He was a Samaritan. He only addressed the accusation that He had a demon.
The Jewish Israelites looked down on the Samaritan Israelites - We could make this very wordy, with a lot of explanations, but pretty much sums it up.
However, I will point out (even though I think someone already did) that Jesus was not concerned about the accusation that He was a Samaritan. He only addressed the accusation that He had a demon.
The Jewish Israelites looked down on the Samaritan Israelites - We could make this very wordy, with a lot of explanations, but pretty much sums it up.
P
That is pure speculation, and bad speculation at that. For one, the bible doesn't say Jacob wrestled with Christ. You're making an assumption,and you're reaching to do it. Secondly, the bible doesn't say that angels are flesh and blood like humans. Thirdly, Christ had to be born to appear in the flesh so your assumptions are without basis. You are adding to the word of God, and that isn't a good thing.