The new covenant with Christ Jesus

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

Worship in the earthly tabernacle i.e. temple worship was set aside and became obsolete.
Sacrificial law was changed.

Your assertion falls somewhat short of a Scriptural presentation in the context of the whole book of Hebrews.

Keeping in mind that assertions without demonstration are without merit.

And also keeping in mind that the old covenant also was made obsolete (Heb 8:13)
and the law was set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:14-15).

Hebrews 9 and 10 explained well enough

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

Sorry couldn't bypass this one. Just wanted to know what the purpose of asking that question was. If I knew the reason I'd answer, but it was directed toward chubbena not me.
Philippians 2:1-6
1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded , having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind .
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus Christ was fully endowed with the complete Spirit of His Father. Like maxed out completely.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[RedTent]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

Post 283 gives many truths. It says the purpose of the book of Hebrews is to convince Jews to accept Jesus as Savior. However, it makes two false statements that makes the conclusion false. It uses that famous word that enemies of the Lord just love, the word "obsolete". Scripture always uses the word becoming with it, showing the greater power of Christ after the resurrection, but demons only use the word obsolete, and apply it to anything of scripture that harms God. The other error is in saying there was absolutely no salvation before the resurrection, no one could receive atonement. Not Moses, not Elijah, no one.

It makes the question of "is Jesus God, equal" a trick question. When they spoke with the same voice, the same truth, it is only a play on words they are asking us to partake of.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

Sorry couldn't bypass this one. Just wanted to know what the purpose of asking that question was. If I knew the reason I'd answer, but it was directed toward chubbena not me.

Jesus Christ was fully endowed with the complete Spirit of His Father. Like maxed out completely.

There are only two possible and, therefore, acceptable answers--either "Yes" or "No."

If it's not an unequivocal "Yes," then it is a "No."

The answer you gave is a "No."

You are not an orthodox Christian, you belong to a non-Christian sect
which denies the deity of Jesus Christ.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Post 283 gives many truths. It says the purpose of the book of Hebrews is to convince Jews to accept Jesus as Savior. However, it makes two false statements that makes the conclusion false. It uses
that famous word that enemies of the Lord just love, the word "obsolete".
Scripture always uses the word "becoming" with it,

Read it again: "he has made the first one obsolete."

It was "becoming" obsolete because Hebrews was written before the Temple and the
sacrifices were destroyed, when its obsolesence was then completed.

You're whitewashing the word of God to fit your human sentiments,
and demonizing those who take Heb 8:13 at its word.

 

[RedTent]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Read it again: "he has made the first one obsolete."

It was "becoming" obsolete because Hebrews was written before the Temple and the
sacrifices were destroyed, when its obsolesence was then completed.

You're whitewashing the word of God to fit your human sentiments,
and demonizing those who take Heb 8:13 at its word.

Now you are changing your words? Now it is the earthly temple only that 'obsolete" applies to?

I truly think that most of how you understand scripture is making scripture fit what you think as a human, you put it well. I so wish we could be united in Christ, but I can't see how we can discount what the Father speaks of and be united in Christ.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus

Now you are changing your words? Now it is the earthly temple only that 'obsolete" applies to?

I truly think that most of how you understand scripture is making scripture fit what you think as a human, you put it well. I so wish we could be united in Christ, but I can't see how we can discount what the Father speaks of and be united in Christ.

This is true. Have you noticed also that she keeps changing the name of the tread to "the new covenant of Christ Jesus" showing disrespect?
I have already addressed it once before.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus

I did not name this thread The new covenant of Christ Jesus.
Just so all will know why I named the thread as I did, click these http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98078-new-covenant-christ-jesus-17.html#post1668840

[url]http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98078-new-covenant-christ-jesus-17.html#post1668799

[/URL]

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Now you are changing your words? Now it is the earthly temple only that 'obsolete" applies to?

I truly think that most of
how you understand scripture is making scripture fit what you think as a human, you put it well. I so wish we could be united in Christ, but I can't see how we can discount what the Father speaks of and be united in Christ.

You have me confused with someone else.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus

You have me confused with someone else.

That is because you are a confusing person. LOL I changed the thread name back again.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

Worship in the earthly tabernacle i.e. temple worship was set aside and became obsolete.
Sacrificial law was changed.

Your assertion falls somewhat short of a Scriptural presentation in the context of the whole book of Hebrews.

Keeping in mind that assertions without demonstration are without merit.

And also keeping in mind that the old covenant also was made obsolete (Heb 8:13)
and the law was set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and abolished (Eph 2:14-15).

Hebrews 9 and 10 explained well enough

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

There are no equivocal answers to the question, no conditions, ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

Jesus either is God, equal with God the Father, or he is not.

It can be answered only with an unequivocal "Yes," or an unequivocal "No."

 

[chubbena]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

The purpose of Hebrews is to show those, who were considering returning to Judaism because
of rejection and persecution by their families and friends, why they should not lapse back into Judaism.

How could one ever understand with such a faulty mindset that old covenant is Judaism?
Whether Yeshua/Jesus is equal with God the Father perhaps one should first answer whether the Word of God is equal with every word that comes from the mouth of God and whether every word that comes from the mouth of God gives us understanding of the Father's character.

 

[chubbena]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

There are no equivocal answers to the question, no conditions, ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

Jesus either is God, equal with God the Father, or he is not.

It can be answered only with an unequivocal "Yes," or an unequivocal "No."

This post reminds me of the old TV series Perry Mason.

 

[chubbena]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

There are only two possible and, therefore, acceptable answers--either "Yes" or "No."

If it's not an unequivocal "Yes," then it is a "No."

The answer you gave is a "No."

You are not an orthodox Christian, you belong to a non-Christian sect
which denies the deity of Jesus Christ.

This type of accusation simply reminds me of a main character in the Bible.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus

Some that want to make void the law of the Old Covenant argue using Ephesians chapter 2.

Verse 15 says, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

I say that the new temple/tabernacle is God's children through Christ in the previous verse 6 and 7 "And hath raised us up together , and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

Therefore the new covenant through Christ relates to the temple/church made without hands that doesn't make void the law.

verses 19-22 say," Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

So to understand what was really destroyed in verse 15, relating to Hebrews 8:13, one must also read verse 16 in Ephesians chapter 2 which says, "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby."

To recap verse 15 and also verse 14 " the law of commandments contained in ordinances" The question then what does ordinances mean?

1378. dogma dog'-mah from the base of 1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):--decree, ordinance.

Therefore the physical aspects of the ceremonial laws are related to the physical temple that God told Moses how to build. It has nothing to do with making void the Words of God that are written in the Old Covenant. The Priest of the temple was the judge for civil ecclesiastical problems using the Urim and Thumim in many cases.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Indeed.

And feel free to address its demonstration in post #283, here.

BTW: Is Jesus God, equal with God the Father?

Yes, or no. . .

There are no equivocal answers to the question, no conditions, ifs, ands, buts, or maybes.

Jesus either is God, equal with God the Father, or he is not.

It can be answered only with an unequivocal "Yes," or an unequivocal "No."

And we already know that avoidance and not answering a question
not only often indicates, but have also seen that it is--deception.

This post reminds me of the old TV series Perry Mason.

That answer would be a "no,"
for you do no unequivocally affirm the deity of Jesus Christ.

And you have no clue what lack of an unequivocal affirmation reveals.

You are not an orthodox Christian, you belong to a non-Christian sect,
which denies the deity of Jesus Christ.

Let the denial and deception begin.

The record speaks for itself.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

That answer would be a "no."

You are not an orthodox Christian, you belong to a non-Christian sect,
which denies the deity of Jesus Christ.

Let the denial and deception begin.

The record speaks for itself.

If Jesus is not God, or equal to God, then why does His covenant trump Gods ?

God says;

Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:24
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,


Lord Jesus said;


Matthew 5:38-39
[SUP] [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP] [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 6:14-15

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


These are not the only changes made.

 

[achduke]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

If Jesus is not God, or equal to God, then why does His covenant trump Gods ?

God says;

Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:24
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,


Lord Jesus said;


Matthew 5:38-39
[SUP] [/SUP]Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
[SUP] [/SUP]But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 6:14-15

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


These are not the only changes made.

Who is the one talking?
Joh 14:10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus

If Jesus is not God, or equal to God, then why does His covenant trump Gods ?

God says;

Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Exodus 21:24
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,


Lord Jesus said;


Matthew 5:38-39
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Matthew 6:14-15

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


These are not the only changes made.

In reading the original law closer one can see that there are no changes according to the precedence set. That law was to show equity, for God is not a respecter of persons. Turning the other cheek shows those who are looking that the person being slapped is of equal status to the one who is doing the slapping. the back hand was demeaning, and forcing the slapper to hit with the palm of the hand was a show of equal status.

According to the law, "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish ; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake." Exodus 21:26-27
It wasn't a matter of literally gouging out the eye of anther person cause they did something wrong intentionally. The servant was bought for hire so if their master abused them the master lost his investment. The principle of equity still remains with Christ as did His Father's.

" Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges , which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition : and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you. And those which remain shall hear , and fear , and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you. And thine eye shall not pity ; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." Deuteronomy 19:17-21

Just an example......If a person robbed another person and lied about saying he didn't, after the priest made the judgment of truth the robber would pay back the same value as what he robbed

 

[kennethcadwell]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Who is the one talking?
Joh 14:10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Yes I understand that, but what I was pointing out is that some who call themselves Christians still follow or believe in the eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, and use Genesis 9:6 to make the death penalty acceptable.

Jesus says no, to love them by showing forgiveness and minister to them.