The new covenant with Christ Jesus
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Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
Here's the record http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98078-new-covenant-christ-jesus-20.html#post1671223
Beginning with Post 396 and ending with post #399
Here's the record http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/98078-new-covenant-christ-jesus-20.html#post1671223
Beginning with Post 396 and ending with post #399
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Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
Harrumph! I should have changed the thread name back to what it's supposed to be again for the 5th time. Maybe it's the 6th time. LOL No respect.
I think by now everybody knows who keeps changing the title of the thread to read something different. Ya think?
Harrumph! I should have changed the thread name back to what it's supposed to be again for the 5th time. Maybe it's the 6th time. LOL No respect.
I think by now everybody knows who keeps changing the title of the thread to read something different. Ya think?
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H
To Elin, The obedience of faith =the means of salvation.! How can you separate what God has joined? Heb. 6:9-12 "But,beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation,...For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have show toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end, That you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises." The saved of each age of grace, always obey God's laws of that age. We have already shown which laws of the O.C. were carried over to the N.C.. and which ones were canceled. Many prophecies were "fulfilled" by Jesus' first coming and the rest are being fulfilled today and/or, at Jesus 2nd coming and in the history to follow Jesus 2nd coming. But, our concern here is: which laws are for us to keep under the new Cov. with/in Jesus. I make it very simple for my people, you obey what ever
Jesus tells us to obey in the N.T.. and read the O.T. To know the ONE TRUE GOD of the universe, and see how nice we have it today compared to the O.T. people of God. We have great liberty but a great responsibility to live to the glory of God in all we do. as adults, in the family of God. Love to all, Hoffco
Jesus tells us to obey in the N.T.. and read the O.T. To know the ONE TRUE GOD of the universe, and see how nice we have it today compared to the O.T. people of God. We have great liberty but a great responsibility to live to the glory of God in all we do. as adults, in the family of God. Love to all, Hoffco
Very well said. The sacrificial laws starting with Passover are fulfilled in Christ. We celebrate that time beginning with Exodus chapter 12. It is very good to remember what God has done through Christ His only Son. The laws that are being neglected and the ones that should still be adhered to are the laws that pertain to us as a living sacrifice. (Romans 12:1-2) We do this by following the principles of the law that relate to our responsibility that God intends for us to fulfill. In other words when we are told to honor our parents, the sacrifice of Christ doesn't negate our responsibility to fulfill that. He didn't do that for us, giving us the right to teach that his law of the Old Testament is now void. We should also study the sacrificial law, and in so doing receive a panoramic view of the greatness of Jesus Christ, and all that He has done for us. His sacrifice relates directly to all the Temple ordinances of the Old Covenant. Those Physical aspects of sacrifice are gone and completed in Him, but not abolished in Spirit for we die daily as did Paul.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, (even is not in the original text) the law of commandments (contained is also not in the original text) in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The verse speaks of the law of commandments contained in the ordinances of temple worship in the Old Covenant.
The curtain was torn giving way to the holiest place in the temple the day Christ died. Enmity=separation.
1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily , and follow me.
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, (even is not in the original text) the law of commandments (contained is also not in the original text) in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
The verse speaks of the law of commandments contained in the ordinances of temple worship in the Old Covenant.
The curtain was torn giving way to the holiest place in the temple the day Christ died. Enmity=separation.
1 Corinthians 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily , and follow me.
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The law is condemnation for the lawless, and a benefit for those that have faith. There are many blessings in the law for wanting God's will to be done. Likewise there are many curses in the law for rebellion against God's will.
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deuteronomy 30:19
Just because the law remains in a Christians life doesn't mean they are still under the curse of the law. The Bible says "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." (James 4:10)
When we are born again we are repositioned out from underneath the law according to God's Word. If we take the Spiritual meaning of our position to the law, the law is aways on the same plan because God doesn't change, and neither does His Word. Jesus came to change our position in relation to the law when we humble ourselves.
We also can live our salvation as Paul describes his spiritual battle in Romans chapter 7. Then he says.....
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man;" in verse 22. We are no different.
Then in Galatians Paul writes that the law in itself cannot give life, but is not against he promise in Christ Jesus. "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid : for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousness should have been by the law." Galatians 3:21
And then he describes a situation that people without faith cannot understand the law. "Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law/?" Galatians 4:21
If the law had vanished with Christ's death burial, and resurrection, Paul would not have had to explain the way all men should view its purpose.
Finally, the true believer in Christ is capable of being subject to the law without being under its condemnation.
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:5-7
Carnal minds only see the law as physical duties because they have not the Spirit of God thus no faith. They are incapable of having the desire to abide in the will of God, because they seek righteousness by works of duty without the heart being in it. The Spiritual mind and heart desires to investigate the law, and learn from it, henceforth establishing the law in themselves through faith. Romans chapter 3 is good to read and understand that abiding in the will of God takes the curse of the law away form the person who has received faith.
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31
As you quoted correctly Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:" Deuteronomy 30:19
Just because the law remains in a Christians life doesn't mean they are still under the curse of the law. The Bible says "Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." (James 4:10)
When we are born again we are repositioned out from underneath the law according to God's Word. If we take the Spiritual meaning of our position to the law, the law is aways on the same plan because God doesn't change, and neither does His Word. Jesus came to change our position in relation to the law when we humble ourselves.
We also can live our salvation as Paul describes his spiritual battle in Romans chapter 7. Then he says.....
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man;" in verse 22. We are no different.
Then in Galatians Paul writes that the law in itself cannot give life, but is not against he promise in Christ Jesus. "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid : for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousness should have been by the law." Galatians 3:21
And then he describes a situation that people without faith cannot understand the law. "Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law/?" Galatians 4:21
If the law had vanished with Christ's death burial, and resurrection, Paul would not have had to explain the way all men should view its purpose.
Finally, the true believer in Christ is capable of being subject to the law without being under its condemnation.
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:5-7
Carnal minds only see the law as physical duties because they have not the Spirit of God thus no faith. They are incapable of having the desire to abide in the will of God, because they seek righteousness by works of duty without the heart being in it. The Spiritual mind and heart desires to investigate the law, and learn from it, henceforth establishing the law in themselves through faith. Romans chapter 3 is good to read and understand that abiding in the will of God takes the curse of the law away form the person who has received faith.
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law." Romans 3:31
As you quoted correctly Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
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Thank you for saying that. It grieves my heart deeply that some ministers and teachers refuse to teach those details of truth because they don't know them. They don't know because they have been taught that through Christ those Old Testament laws have no value any longer, and have been destroyed with Christ's death. Teaching only what they understand of the New Testament is only part of the whole and is restricted because the Old confirms the New. They have been taught that if one practices those morals defined in the Old Testament is the same as denying God's grace and His gift of faith through Christ Jesus. That is so convoluted. There is a scripture reference that defines this characteristic.
"Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish , and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid. Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" (Isaiah 29:14-16)
God hasn't taken back, or volunteered to make void anything He has ever said in the law, the prophets, or the Words of His only begotten Son. God bless
"Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish , and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid. Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?" (Isaiah 29:14-16)
God hasn't taken back, or volunteered to make void anything He has ever said in the law, the prophets, or the Words of His only begotten Son. God bless
C
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
Does anyone give you the impression that obedience to the law given through Moses a means of salvation?
We are going in circles again
Matthew 22:37-40 Does one see what question the Christ was answering to? The question was "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Galatians 5:6 Does one see Paul was speaking about circumcision? Does one see circumcision is not the whole law given through Moses?
Romans 13:8-10 Was not Paul complimenting what the Christ said in Matthew 22:37-40?
Paul was referring to the Word of God in Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you" which someone on this thread said she does not need the written words to remind her of such.
Does anyone give you the impression that obedience to the law given through Moses a means of salvation?
We are going in circles again
Matthew 22:37-40 Does one see what question the Christ was answering to? The question was "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Galatians 5:6 Does one see Paul was speaking about circumcision? Does one see circumcision is not the whole law given through Moses?
Romans 13:8-10 Was not Paul complimenting what the Christ said in Matthew 22:37-40?
Paul was referring to the Word of God in Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you" which someone on this thread said she does not need the written words to remind her of such.
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus
Non-responsive.
Does one see that the two commandments of the law of grace are fulfillment of the law of Moses
(Mt 22:40)?
That's a FAIL.
Gal 5:6 - "All that matters is faith expressing itself through love."
And you limit that to circumcision, rather than applying it to "all that matters". . .self-evident FAIL.
He was applying what Jesus said in Mt 22:40.
Non-responsive.
Non-responsive.
Does one see that the two commandments of the law of grace are fulfillment of the law of Moses
(Mt 22:40)?
That's a FAIL.
Gal 5:6 - "All that matters is faith expressing itself through love."
And you limit that to circumcision, rather than applying it to "all that matters". . .self-evident FAIL.
He was applying what Jesus said in Mt 22:40.
Non-responsive.
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Re: The new covenant "WITH" Christ Jesus
Describe that in understandable terms please. "Straw man" that is. Is it a ridiculing statement, or a compliment.
"Blessed are ye , when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely , for my sake . Rejoice , and be exceeding glad : for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Matthew 5:11-12)
"Finally , be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called , that ye should inherit a blessing." (1 Peter 3:8-9)
Maybe we can include "Straw woman?" I had to change the thread back to its original title. Why in the world are you so inconsiderate? It's not your thread.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Describe that in understandable terms please. "Straw man" that is. Is it a ridiculing statement, or a compliment.
"Blessed are ye , when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely , for my sake . Rejoice , and be exceeding glad : for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Matthew 5:11-12)
"Finally , be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called , that ye should inherit a blessing." (1 Peter 3:8-9)
Maybe we can include "Straw woman?" I had to change the thread back to its original title. Why in the world are you so inconsiderate? It's not your thread.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
- Person A has position X.
- Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
- Person B attacks position Y.
- Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
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