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i say it because it's something a person can hold in their hands and see... Luke says it's written... it isn't written in the KJV... it is in the lxx... to me, that's fine... I believe God's word is perfect... I don't believe the KJV is perfect...I too have faith and am rewarded with spiritual insights...
the KJV of Isaiah doesn't have a place where it is written The spirit of the lord is upon me... luke says it's there... that's what I'm saying is an error...
Nehemiah explains how they would give the sense of a Scripture. You're grasping at straws in your desperation to see errors in God's Word where none exist. I mean, have you talked to God about this? (Jeremiah 33:3). Or don't you consult Him on such matters?
Well, lucky I don't treat you the same way, then.
You're conflating places where the Bible talks about the Word of God with the written tradition of the Scriptures. For instance, your reference to 1 Thess is totally off base, because Paul was PREACHING, not from a written gospel proclamation (such a thing did not yet exist - 1 Thess is almost certainly the first written document of the NT), but with his lips, in his authority as an apostle, from what he had learned from the eyewitnesses (1 Cor 15). There is not a hint of anything being said about a written document ANYWHERE here, it's simply not relevant. This is yet another example of your exegetical carelessness (which I already referred to in my previous post, and which you didn't reply to).
You have yet to give a single scriptural evidence for your highly specific position "God has guaranteed an exact and inerrant copy of the Old and New Testaments will remain extant and accessible to all people at all times." You ask "Show me where you believe God's Word is perfect". I say - go and actually read my posts, and stop asking questions that have been answered. If you want to ask questions of clarification, that's different.
And your accusation that I somehow believe the words of men rather than the word's of God is just insulting. The whole point of this exercise, Jason, the whole REASON we are having this discussion is because I am interested in getting rid of the words men have added or taken away, and discerning the words God gave to the apostles. As I have already established, it appears you value certainty, even if it is only theoretical and has no other basis, over truth. That's fine, but others here value God's truth over an imagined epistemic certainty.
K
Kerry
Guest
Dude, Nick is stuck on the NIV and will not see any reasonable debate against it. Although I thank God for the NIV so ignorant people can get a glimpse of Gods word and perhaps get saved.
This is not a discussion about the NIV. And I have yet to see much debate at all from Jason, let alone any that can be called reasonable. Kerry, if you wish to dissect my previous posts and 'reasonably' show me why I am wrong, you are more than welcome to.
You remind me of Mr. Irrelevant, the last pick in the NFL Draft.
Nobody is saying the NIV is perfect.
Somebody is saying the KJV is perfect.
The overwhelming preponderance of evidence indicates that the KJV is not perfect.
Do you agree?
yes, I did talk to God about this, in fact i think he's the one that helped me find it... does it have the right sense? yes, so if we want to say the KJV is a sense perfect bible, that's cool... not word perfect, though... Luke doesn't say that's what Jesus read or preached, he says Jesus found the place where it was written...
nirv is good, too... I think people with learning challenges should be able to read God's word, too...
I am sorry. God would never have you disbelieve His Word. That is another spirit talking to you.
People can repent of their sins and accept Jesus and can experience Romans 10:17, too. But that doesn't mean a person is going to always follow Jesus the rest of their life, though. There are many who have turned away from the faith. A faith in God's Word. In other words, a person only believed a few verses in the Bible for a while. God never says that we are to believe in portions of His Word because it has errors in it. That doesn't make any sense.
Are you actually talking about the "supposed contradiction" in 1 Kings 4:26? Well, if you are, then that would be first grader stuff for me, my friend.
See, after I shortly got saved back in 1992, I was already quickly aware of the differences between the Modern Translations and the King James. I had seen that the changes were not for the better, but for the worse. I looked at a lot of the passages in the book titled, "New Age Bible Versions" and I did not need to be convinced any further.
So I had come to believe from the very start that God's Word was perfect and without error and that has never changed. Yet, that does not mean God did not test me to see if I would trust His Word and continue to have faith in Him or not. For one day I read a book that pointed out a supposed contradiction in God's Word. At first, I appeared shocked and it felt like my faith was on the line here. But I had the awakening by the power of the Spirit and knew I was saved. So there was no turning back. I knew the truth. Yet I could not explain what I had seen in the King James.
Now, do you know what I did way back then in the 90's when I discovered this? I basically said to the Lord that I did not have an answer for what I was seeing within His Word, but I was just going to trust Him and His Word was true regardless.
And you know what happened after that? Well, I am glad I did trust the Lord's Word back then. For after I renewed my faith in 2010 after God brought a loving Christian woman into my life from half way around the world, I had began to study God's Word again and made a very interesting discovery about this supposed contradiction.
So here it is:
Did Solomon have 40,000 stalls for his horses (1 Kings 4:26), or 4,000 stalls (2 Chronicles 9:25)?
Firstly, it should be noted that this “supposed contradiction” does not appear in the New International Version, which states that Solomon had “four thousand stalls” in both verses. However, the NIV translation mistakenly states that Solomon had twelve thousand horses, when in fact the original Hebrew text (and all other English translations of it) state that Solomon had twelve thousand horsemen. This error results in three horses per chariot (an unusually odd number) and three horses per stall (which seems a little crowded). Opening a lexicon, we see that the King James Version gives an accurate rendering of the Hebrew text (correctly translating the Hebrew parash as “horsemen”), and for this reason we know that this translation can be trusted in accurately explaining this “contradiction”.
With that said, let’s examine these two verses. 1 Kings 4:26 states, “Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen” while 2 Chronicles 9:25 states “Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen”.
1 Kings 4:26 counts only the horses that were intended to be used “for his chariots”. On the other hand, 2 Chronicles 9:25 counts both the horses “and chariots” together.
1 Kings 4:26 states that Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses, meaning that he had forty-thousand stalls with horses in them. 2 Chronicles 9:25 counts both horses and chariots together. If each chariot stall contains within it ten horse stalls (perhaps one stall for each horse that pulls the chariot) then there is no contradiction.
Solomon had 40,000 stalls for his horses. Solomon had 4,000 chariots (three riders per chariot, since we know from both 1 Kings 4:26 and 2 Chronicles 9:25 that he had twelve thousand horsemen) and every chariot had its own stall. Chariots are pulled by multiple horses – in this case, ten horses. Each chariot stall had within it ten individual horse stalls – one for each horse that pulled that specific chariot.
In fact, here is a similar one.
Did David capture 1,700 of King Zobah's horsemen (2 Samuel 8:4), or was it 7,000 (1 Chronicles 18:4)?
2 Samuel 8:4 says that David took 700 horsemen, while 1 Chronicles 18:4 says that David took 7000 horsemen. These verses are not in contradiction. The King James version correctly describes 1000 chariots in both 2 Samuel 8:4 and 1 Chronicles 18:4. Both verses also state that David reserved 100 chariots. Combining the information from these two verses we see that David took 700 horsemen for the chariots he kept, but he took a total of 7000 horsemen away from the enemy king. The two different numbers for the number of chariots provide us with a consistent 7:1 horseman-to-chariot ratio. This is reasonable, as seven horsemen could easily share the same chariot.
So we can conclude that if one believes the Bible is not written entirely by God and reads something at face value like the above passages without the help of the Spirit teaching them, then one is only going to see errors in God's Word where none really exist.
1 Thessalonians 2:13
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
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Why do I say this? Because the devil made Eve doubt God's Word in the Garden of Eden? "Yea, hath God said...?" (Genesis 3:1). You have bought into the same lie that Eve had bought into, my friend. Which is doubting God's Word.
I believe God's word... I don't believe the KJV is word perfect... it could be sense perfect...
I believe God's word... the KJV can't be word perfect because it has at least one error in it... so God's word must be something other than the exact words of the KJV... say, here's something we could talk about... psalm 119:89*For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. Are there verses that talk about it being settled on earth, too? maybe there are...
Which one? Is there one Word of God for you that you can stand behind or is it many Words of God you believe in? If you say you believe the original Greek manuscripts (NT), then which set of Greek manuscripts? How do you know which one is God's Word? Do you think God requires the simple farmer or fisherman or poor man to study the Greek? Is God's Word only for theologians or scribes at a Bible seminary?