How did the angels sin if there is no sin in heaven? / Is their free will in heaven?
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If God gives us the freedom to choose what we do here on earth, it is that impossible to believe that that is how he governs everyone under his watch (ie the angels in heaven)?
Everyone is treated equally. The whole point of this Great Controvery is that God is Proving to all the worlds and the heavens that he is JUST and he will CONQUER satan and evil. He gives us a chance to see how great and wonderful he IS!
Everyone is treated equally. The whole point of this Great Controvery is that God is Proving to all the worlds and the heavens that he is JUST and he will CONQUER satan and evil. He gives us a chance to see how great and wonderful he IS!
Angels aren't people, they're his creations, his celestial tools, his way of touching his creation Without his infinite might unraveling everything. Human beings are His children, made in His image so we might one day grow into beings more like Him. So yeah, angels, not equal--in no way. At least not when measuring by cosmic import.
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greatkraw
Guest
Yeah totally. That's what I was saying, and trying to figure out how satan was in heaven when he sinned, as well as the other angels, if there is no sin in heaven.
Someone mentioned that there will be a new heaven and new earth, and satan was in the old heaven.
I think that covers it......?
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Broern
Guest
I am already burdened why people on earth who can not understand to be holy as God is holy. Better to forget why angels sinned against God.
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giantone
Guest
Sentence hasn't been carried out on Satan yet, That may have something to do with him being able to go to Heaven and talk about Job with God. Heaven is Heaven not 1st heaven 2nd heaven. Heaven is a garment, Heaven is where God is. Sin and corruption will be put in the proper place at the proper time and Heaven will cloth this creation. And it will be new like getting a new jacket.
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greatkraw
Guest
You may be onto something. When Satan IS thrown out of Heaven he will know that he has but a short time left. See Revelation.
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machew
Guest
Here's a good question for this topic:
Is it possible to have the choice to sin, but have an environment where nobody desires or chooses to sin?
Is it possible to have the choice to sin, but have an environment where nobody desires or chooses to sin?
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giantone
Guest
If sin is inside then it will come out.
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
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greatkraw
Guest
Yes, the environment is not the issue.
One way to not sin is to have nothing forbidden.
The other way is not to have the desire.
One way to not sin is to have nothing forbidden.
The other way is not to have the desire.
Let's deal with all tgat crap when we get there, right now this world is in pretty poor form and I'm sitting in on a forum when I could be out at the club hawk-watching to catch guys roofieing unsuspecting young ladies so I'm heading out to do my part in the war against evil
but when I get back I wanna see more talk about angels dammit!
but when I get back I wanna see more talk about angels dammit!
I always thought the angels sinned in heaven by observing or being tempted by the sin on earth. The nephilim leading to the flood is one example.
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greatkraw
Guest
When Lucifer fell and became Satan he took 1/3 of angels with him in rebellion.
God pronounced his plan to judge and condemn them.
There is a real sense in which human history IS THE GREAT CONTROVERSY between God and Satan.
It is the great debate as to whether God is fair and whether frail beings like humans can choose to live for God. If some can be found to submit to God then the fallen Angels have no excuse.
To put it another way; (God's)Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done.
We don't know all the answers for everything thats why we aren't God. It is hard for us to think of God making a mistake. We think of God making the angels and some of them turned on him. Do we think that God knew the angels would turn on him. We know he picked the 12 and he knew one would betray him. He picked us and some of us will follow him and some of us will turn our backs on him. We just don't know everything and we don't need to know everything. We just need to trust our God. Have peace! So maybe God made the angels and he seen the future and said oh some of these angels are going to betray me. So I'm making man and I'm going to give man my power and man is going to destroy those evil angels. Then man will live happily ever after. The end.
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greatkraw
Guest
you may be onto something
there is a theory that the church will consist of one believer for each angel that fell
we are told that we will judge angels
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