Women in Ministry

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Revelator7

Guest
#1
#1
Hi there! I'm a Bible-believing Christian, my denomination is N/A because I do not conform to any one denomination. I believe in a full Gospel experience with God and with his people. I've been walking with God for about 8 years now as a Christian. Before that I was a Catholic. But I was a non indoctrinated Catholic (nothing they taught me stuck to me, it was like God protected my mind all that time growing up as a kid). So that's a little about me. I have a blog that I would like to share with you. The issue is regarding women in Ministry from a Biblical perspective. It's a lengthy read but if you have the free time I would like you to read it. Your feedback is important to me. Go to this link here: robhanley.blog.com
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#2
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
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#2
Two thing!
1. Brief and simple! Cut 3/4 of your dialogue, esp. The first 4 paragraphs, and all the rest of the blather and you will be half way there.

2. Learn Greek and then we can discuss your faulty suppositions and opinions!

PS I am an ordained pastor, and God uses me in amazing ways!
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#3
#3
Angela53510 said:
Two thing!
1. Brief and simple! Cut 3/4 of your dialogue, esp. The first 4 paragraphs, and all the rest of the blather and you will be half way there.

2. Learn Greek and then we can discuss your faulty suppositions and opinions!

PS I am an ordained pastor, and God uses me in amazing ways!
Click to expand...
John Piper and Wayne Grudem know Greek well too.
They also have highly educated peers who agree with them.
They disagree with you on this topic.
Just saying the Greek card isn't the insta-clincher. :p
 
Allin

Allin

Banned
#4
Jan 6, 2012
1,233
10
0
#4
Revelator7 said:
Hi there! I'm a Bible-believing Christian, my denomination is N/A because I do not conform to any one denomination. I believe in a full Gospel experience with God and with his people. I've been walking with God for about 8 years now as a Christian. Before that I was a Catholic. But I was a non indoctrinated Catholic (nothing they taught me stuck to me, it was like God protected my mind all that time growing up as a kid). So that's a little about me. I have a blog that I would like to share with you. The issue is regarding women in Ministry from a Biblical perspective. It's a lengthy read but if you have the free time I would like you to read it. Your feedback is important to me. Go to this link here: robhanley.blog.com
Click to expand...
I just happened to post this to another thread-- an old one-- about women in ministry and will just re-post it here. Meanwhile, I'll make a note to read your article when I have time and return to this thread later today or this week. Here is what I posted on the other thread:

"1. God places men in ministry first and women second. He is not against women in ministry; it is as God establishes godly and righteous men in ministry that He will then be able to establish godly women in ministry. Men go first as a covering of protection (protection in following the correct order).

2. For evidence of God's eternal equality between men and women, please check out the stories of Zelophehad's daughters (Numbers 27) and Caleb's daughter (Joshua 15) whom God gave inheritances and land to, something that was unheard of in that day. (Check out also Priscilla and Aquila, the female apostle Junia, and other female leaders in the NT.)

So, this is another place where God has tolerated the traditions of man where men repress women, etc., and it seemed like God agreed with female repression because He tolerated it. God is fair across the board (His tolerance of sin/wrongdoing does not mean agreement with sin); His only stipulation is order: in matters of leadership (ministry, etc.), the man goes first, then the woman. As men stand in genuine and pure leadership roles, we will see women (beginning with women within those men's ministries and families) begin to be released from years of tradition to also stand in ministry and leadership."
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#5
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,961
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#5
1still_waters said:
John Piper and Wayne Grudem know Greek well too.
They also have highly educated peers who agree with them.
They disagree with you on this topic.
Just saying the Greek card isn't the insta-clincher. :p
Click to expand...
As much as I have learned from some of Piper's books, on this matter he is a total hypocrite. He will READ a book by a woman scholar, but will not sit under her if she teaches it. What is the difference? Nothing, he is learning from either the book the woman wrote, or the same material she would be teaching from. Totally cultural!

As far as Grudem, have you ever read Biblical Manhood and Womanhood? He starts out with his personal opinion that women shouldn't lift weights, because it makes them look too masculine! Whatever that means! I've been lifting weights for 9 years to stop the excruciating pain of a bad whiplash injury, under the orders of my physician and the care of my physiotherapist. A much better alternative to narcotics, or surgery. And I look very feminine, as my husband and my friends would attest to!

I was laughing so hard by then, of this narrow southern stereotype of women, I couldn't finish the book. Besides, I just couldn't find the Scriptures, but opinions and cultural stereotypes only.

If you want a good analysis by one of the foremost theologians and Greek scholar, Stanley Grenz read his book Women in The Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#6
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
2,961
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#6
Allin said:
I just happened to post this to another thread-- an old one-- about women in ministry and will just re-post it here. Meanwhile, I'll make a note to read your article when I have time and return to this thread later today or this week. Here is what I posted on the other thread:

"1. God places men in ministry first and women second. He is not against women in ministry; it is as God establishes godly and righteous men in ministry that He will then be able to establish godly women in ministry. Men go first as a covering of protection (protection in following the correct order).

2. For evidence of God's eternal equality between men and women, please check out the stories of Zelophehad's daughters (Numbers 27) and Caleb's daughter (Joshua 15) whom God gave inheritances and land to, something that was unheard of in that day. (Check out also Priscilla and Aquila, the female apostle Junia, and other female leaders in the NT.)

So, this is another place where God has tolerated the traditions of man where men repress women, etc., and it seemed like God agreed with female repression because He tolerated it. God is fair across the board (His tolerance of sin/wrongdoing does not mean agreement with sin); His only stipulation is order: in matters of leadership (ministry, etc.), the man goes first, then the woman. As men stand in genuine and pure leadership roles, we will see women (beginning with women within those men's ministries and families) begin to be released from years of tradition to also stand in ministry and leadership."
Click to expand...

This concept of primogeniture is totally outmoded in our society. Amazing how you did not give one verse to support your totally unsubstantiated opinions.

If you come back with man was created first, then remember the animals were created before Adam. Eve in fact, was the crown of creation! Coming last in all of creation, she was the final good God created!
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#7
#7
Angela53510;1690806[B said:
]As much as I have learned from some of Piper's books, on this matter he is a total hypocrite. He will READ a book by a woman scholar, but will not sit under her if she teaches it.[/B] What is the difference? Nothing, he is learning from either the book the woman wrote, or the same material she would be teaching from. Totally cultural!
Click to expand...
I don't know if any perceived hypocrisy from someone who disagrees with him anyways debunks his decades of experience in the Greek.
As far as Grudem, have you ever read Biblical Manhood and Womanhood? He starts out with his personal opinion that women shouldn't lift weights, because it makes them look too masculine! Whatever that means! I've been lifting weights for 9 years to stop the excruciating pain of a bad whiplash injury, under the orders of my physician and the care of my physiotherapist. A much better alternative to narcotics, or surgery. And I look very feminine, as my husband and my friends would attest to!

I was laughing so hard by then, of this narrow southern stereotype of women, I couldn't finish the book. Besides, I just couldn't find the Scriptures, but opinions and cultural stereotypes only.

If you want a good analysis by one of the foremost theologians and Greek scholar, Stanley Grenz read his book Women in The Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry.
Click to expand...
Yeah that is a goofy idea, but I doubt that automatically invalidates his Greek knowledge.
 
L

lioncub

Guest
#8
#8
Revelator7 said:
Hi there! I'm a Bible-believing Christian, my denomination is N/A because I do not conform to any one denomination. I believe in a full Gospel experience with God and with his people. I've been walking with God for about 8 years now as a Christian. Before that I was a Catholic. But I was a non indoctrinated Catholic (nothing they taught me stuck to me, it was like God protected my mind all that time growing up as a kid). So that's a little about me. I have a blog that I would like to share with you. The issue is regarding women in Ministry from a Biblical perspective. It's a lengthy read but if you have the free time I would like you to read it. Your feedback is important to me. Go to this link here: robhanley.blog.com
Click to expand...
I agree with you - having a woman pastor and / teacher over men is unbliblical.
 
V

Vernon

Banned
#9
Jan 6, 2014
991
27
0
#9
What a self proclaimed prophet teacher ? How rare.

" Do you love me? " Jesus Christ circa 30ad.

The confusion you witness in America and the world today is because today we have 500,000 prophets all claiming to speak for God and none speaking in agreement.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#10
#10
lioncub said:
I agree with you - having a woman pastor and / teacher over men is unbliblical.
Click to expand...
Revelator7 said:
Hi there! I'm a Bible-believing Christian, my denomination is N/A because I do not conform to any one denomination. I believe in a full Gospel experience with God and with his people. I've been walking with God for about 8 years now as a Christian. Before that I was a Catholic. But I was a non indoctrinated Catholic (nothing they taught me stuck to me, it was like God protected my mind all that time growing up as a kid). So that's a little about me. I have a blog that I would like to share with you. The issue is regarding women in Ministry from a Biblical perspective. It's a lengthy read but if you have the free time I would like you to read it. Your feedback is important to me. Go to this link here: robhanley.blog.com
Click to expand...
How do you explain female apostles and women leaders listed in the bible then ?
 
E

elf3

Guest
#12
#12
Acts 1:12-26 one of the men was was chosen to replace Judas.
Acts 6:1-7 seven men were chosen to take care of the responsibilities that were needed.
Eph 5:23 the man is the head of the wife.
1 Tim 3:1-13 men are talked about as overseers and decons.

In all four of the passages men are the ones put in leadership roles. These are Biblical passages given to us by God. If you say we are being male chauvinist because of these passages you need to take that up with God as we didn't write the Bible...God did. I am in no way chauvinistic but this is what the Bible says in the New Testament under the New Covenant.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#13
#13
lioncub said:
female pastors/teachers are not listed in the bible.
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Tabitha ( Dorcas ), Euodia, Syntyche, Phoebe, Priscilla, and then there is the biggest one Junia.


Romans 16:7: Paul refers to a male apostle, Andronicus, and a female apostle, Junia, as "outstanding among the apostles" (NIV) The Amplified Bible translates this passage as "They are men held in high esteem among the apostles" The Revised Standard Version shows it as "they are men of note among the apostles". The reference to them both being men does not appear in the original Greek text. The word "men" was simply inserted by the translators, apparently because the translators' minds recoiled from the concept of a female apostle. Many translations, including the Amplified Bible, Rheims New Testament, New American Standard Bible, and the New International Version simply picked the letter "s" out of thin air, and converted the original "Junia" (a woman) into "Junias" (a man).
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#14
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
#14
Revelator7 said:
Hi there! I'm a Bible-believing Christian, my denomination is N/A because I do not conform to any one denomination. I believe in a full Gospel experience with God and with his people. I've been walking with God for about 8 years now as a Christian. Before that I was a Catholic. But I was a non indoctrinated Catholic (nothing they taught me stuck to me, it was like God protected my mind all that time growing up as a kid). So that's a little about me. I have a blog that I would like to share with you. The issue is regarding women in Ministry from a Biblical perspective. It's a lengthy read but if you have the free time I would like you to read it. Your feedback is important to me. Go to this link here: robhanley.blog.com
Click to expand...

Here is a great teaching series by a Bible believing teacher (brother Scott Johnson of Contending for Truth) where he goes over what a woman can do for the Lord in the ministry.


What Can Women do for the Lord?

By Dr. Scott Johnson:


Scott Johnson Archives: What Can Women do for the Lord?
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#15
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#15
This is one of the topics that I disagree with on someone I deeply love. If I had a hidden motive to want to believe contrary to what Scripture says, I definitely would have a good reason for doing so. I mean, don't you think I want the Bible to say otherwise so as to please someone I intensively care about? Don't you think I tried to find a loophole? You know. After all, maybe I was just misunderstanding the plain written meaning of Scripture. Sometimes God's ways don't always make sense to us. But when we submit to God's will, then comes the true understanding.
 
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ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#16
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
#16
Also it is not necessary to learn Greek. Greek is a dead language anyway.


Just believe the English Text. All you need is the English Bible (King James Holy Bible).

The Authorized Version Holy Bible is the perfect English Bible. Therefore it is the Absolute Final Authority for all matters of Faith and Practice.

There is no such thing as an ordained Woman pastor or a legitimate woman pastor. The Holy Bible does not allow for women to be pastors. Only a man can be a Pastor and an overseer.
 
E

elf3

Guest
#17
#17
Romans 16:7 "are of note among the apostles" KJV, NKJV
"Outstanding among the apostles" NIV
None refer to them as apostles but only as "outstanding" or "of note" meaning they were known by the apostles proper (the 12 plus Matthias and Paul are the only apostles the New Testament recognize as apostles). There in no indication that they were leaders within the Church.
 
Joidevivre

Joidevivre

Senior Member
#18
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
272
83
#18
Jesus gave the first sermon to a woman to preach to the men disciples - to tell them that he was risen. And it is almost funny that none of the men listened to her with belief. Some of you already know that I am an ordained minister - for hospital and hospice work. Women needed a woman to talk to. Actually, there was a man chaplain working with me, and I was often asked for by men who chose me over the man. And they had met with both of us.

All God cares about is His Word and that it is heard. Women can prophecy and teach. But if men are not going to accept God's word through a woman's voice, then that woman should not teach those men. I would not want to be a pastor of a large church, although I have heard some women pastors and their message has brought people to Christ. Isn't that what it is all about?
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#19
Jan 24, 2011
11,786
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#19
Nice job abducting the thread, Chosen!

We almost made it through a whole page without a rabbit trail. Maybe next time.

If you had an ounce of education, you would understand that Greek differs significantly in complexity from English, and that is why scholars study the original languages, instead of some 16th century translation using manuscripts OF THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGES which were corrupted over 15 centuries!
 
E

elf3

Guest
#20
#20
And we were so close lol
 
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