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Always amusing to read these threads. Scripture never changes but men always look for new ways to interpret it. Paul's admonition to Timothy still says that the pastor must be the husband of one wife and to have his household in subjection to him.
Women are essential in the church but not in the pulpit and not having rule over the men.
If God is going to bless one must do things God's way. Personal preferences are not important to Gods determinate will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Women are essential in the church but not in the pulpit and not having rule over the men.
If God is going to bless one must do things God's way. Personal preferences are not important to Gods determinate will.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
R
In the King James Version it reads this way: "And there was one Anna, a prophetess"
The translation that you refered to says a completely different thing, it basically says: "There was a prophet, Anna"
Yes, Acts 2 I absoultely agree with. Keep in mind though that 1 Corinthians 14:31 says: "Ye mall all prophesy one by one"
And according to 1 Corinthians 11:5 we understand that believing women can prophesy.
Let's reads Acts 2 where Joel's prophesy is reiterated in the Bible:
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daugthers shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy"
The context for the Scripture in Acts 2 that you referred to is in the understanding that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all people. It begins saying that worldly people would prophesy, then it contrasts and says that God's people would prophesy. Thus in this passage there is no determining factor here that implies any positions/functions/offices in the body of Christ. That's not what Joel's prophesy is determining. Joel was just informing us that the Holy Spirit will come upon everybody and prophetic dreams, visions and words will flow through people. This makes Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 14:36 even more understood, that we can all prophesy one by one (men and women).
Now back to the first thing I mentioned here, with the KJV vs your version of the Bible. A prophet or a Prophet, it is different that a prophetess. A prophetess is simply a women who prophesies or who has the incline/ability to the prophetic gift. The Gift is different than the Office. If you would read my blog (if you haven't already) you will find there that I broke down the translation in Ephesians 4 regarding men and the offices of Christ Jesus as the Apostle, the Prophet, the Evangelist, the Pastor and Teacher.
I would just like to state that there are fulfilling roles in the Church for women. And outside of the Church walls (where the Ekklesia isn't meeting in that moment of time) women can do many things in this world regarding the Lord and the word of God. What my focus is with the blog that I wrote is on the Order within the Ekklesia (the Church). I am sure that a woman (and let's say she is married) can teach about the Lord or the Gospel to an outsider outside* of the Church, as long as her husband permits she can. If the husband says 'No' then Biblically she must submit to her husband. This is off topic I know but I felt led to write that down.
The translation that you refered to says a completely different thing, it basically says: "There was a prophet, Anna"
Yes, Acts 2 I absoultely agree with. Keep in mind though that 1 Corinthians 14:31 says: "Ye mall all prophesy one by one"
And according to 1 Corinthians 11:5 we understand that believing women can prophesy.
Let's reads Acts 2 where Joel's prophesy is reiterated in the Bible:
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daugthers shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy"
The context for the Scripture in Acts 2 that you referred to is in the understanding that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all people. It begins saying that worldly people would prophesy, then it contrasts and says that God's people would prophesy. Thus in this passage there is no determining factor here that implies any positions/functions/offices in the body of Christ. That's not what Joel's prophesy is determining. Joel was just informing us that the Holy Spirit will come upon everybody and prophetic dreams, visions and words will flow through people. This makes Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 14:36 even more understood, that we can all prophesy one by one (men and women).
Now back to the first thing I mentioned here, with the KJV vs your version of the Bible. A prophet or a Prophet, it is different that a prophetess. A prophetess is simply a women who prophesies or who has the incline/ability to the prophetic gift. The Gift is different than the Office. If you would read my blog (if you haven't already) you will find there that I broke down the translation in Ephesians 4 regarding men and the offices of Christ Jesus as the Apostle, the Prophet, the Evangelist, the Pastor and Teacher.
I would just like to state that there are fulfilling roles in the Church for women. And outside of the Church walls (where the Ekklesia isn't meeting in that moment of time) women can do many things in this world regarding the Lord and the word of God. What my focus is with the blog that I wrote is on the Order within the Ekklesia (the Church). I am sure that a woman (and let's say she is married) can teach about the Lord or the Gospel to an outsider outside* of the Church, as long as her husband permits she can. If the husband says 'No' then Biblically she must submit to her husband. This is off topic I know but I felt led to write that down.
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R
I personally don't believe that the fivefold ministry is for females. Ephesians 4 in English says Christ gave gifts to men. And in the Greek we read the same thing, that Christ gave gifts to males (man-faced men). Those gifts or should I say that Gift was very selfsame Mantle/Gift that the Lord Jesus carried as a man when he walked the earth. That mantle was Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Shepherd and Teacher. We can interchange Function/Role/Office with "the Gift(s)" that Jesus gave unto men.
As for Junia (who many consider was an apostle) in Romans 16:7 in English it says that she was of note among the apostles. To be of note among somebody means you are well spoken of. It does not mean she was an apostle, it just means she was highly favored among the apostles.
I believe a believing woman can do things for the Lord and for the Gospel outside of the Church. My total focus about women in ministry is on the Order within the Church (not outside of it). And I believe if a married believiing women wanted to talk about God or the Gospel to an unbeliever in the world, then that's fine unless her husband commands her not to.
If Christian women really believed in the Bible as the infallable word of God, then there should be no debate whatsoever among them if a man of God in the Church said that they couldn't speak during the service, and teach or preach etc. If they read their Bible's, or better yet, if they listened* to holy Scripture in their Bible's, then they should completely and coherently understand without a doubt that men of God in the Church have the authority over them for the sake of God's Order. God is not the author of confusion/disorder. I went off topic here but I felt led to jot these thoughts down.
As for Junia (who many consider was an apostle) in Romans 16:7 in English it says that she was of note among the apostles. To be of note among somebody means you are well spoken of. It does not mean she was an apostle, it just means she was highly favored among the apostles.
I believe a believing woman can do things for the Lord and for the Gospel outside of the Church. My total focus about women in ministry is on the Order within the Church (not outside of it). And I believe if a married believiing women wanted to talk about God or the Gospel to an unbeliever in the world, then that's fine unless her husband commands her not to.
If Christian women really believed in the Bible as the infallable word of God, then there should be no debate whatsoever among them if a man of God in the Church said that they couldn't speak during the service, and teach or preach etc. If they read their Bible's, or better yet, if they listened* to holy Scripture in their Bible's, then they should completely and coherently understand without a doubt that men of God in the Church have the authority over them for the sake of God's Order. God is not the author of confusion/disorder. I went off topic here but I felt led to jot these thoughts down.
Well first, the Final Authority is the word of God (the Holy Bible).
And second, that woman would be in rebellion against the word of God, since the word of God does not allow for women to be pastors or bishops. Only a man can fulfil the role of pastor and bishop from a Biblical Standpoint.
Now I am sure there are many times, where the wife is right and correct on a Doctrinal matter and issue. And if that is the case, still though, she needs to approach her husband reverently and humbly and show him from the Scriptures where he has erred.
And if the husband loves the Book and sees that his wife is right on a certain Doctrinal issue, then the man will change and line up with the word of God.
It is important to keep in mind that while the man is indeed the head of the woman.
There are still times when a man can be wrong. Brother Bryan Denlinger did an excellent sermon message and study on this subject, you can check it out below:
Can A Christian Woman Rebuke A Man?
[video=youtube;okPyaEbi0iA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPyaEbi0iA[/video]
I will have to repeat this in my next comment-reply: Until the Lord fully reveals every point about an issue, you have to wait for the revelation to be complete or else you will fall into error.
Regarding the above point, the Holy Spirit does not give every single answer all at once but often "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little" (Isa. 28:10). The only real thing Jesus told the disciples before He left was to wait in the city until the Spirit came on them. After the Spirit came on them, they were to be led by Him through currently-proceeding revelation.
I say all that to say that the answer to your question is contained not on the surface of the Bible but in currently-proceeding revelation. You asked, "If you have a woman Pastor, and she and her husband disagree on an issue, who is the final authority?" The answers for that are many, but I'm keeping my comments shorter these days so I'll just touch on one:
The Lord is the final authority; here is how it works: Genesis says God created them male and female. In other words, He created male and female as a perfect fit. If a wife is a pastor, then her husband is probably a minister too. But even if he isn't a minister and she is, the husband retains authority always in the home. The only time the wife may seem to have more authority is if the Lord commands something through the wife and the husband is in sin or rebellion. At that time, the husband no longer has authority (due to his rebellion) nor does the wife; the Lord has authority through the wife instead of through the husband as is His primary will. When the husband is walking in obedience, he has final authority no matter what (this authority in the Lord makes him submissive to his wife if she is right and he is wrong, so it works perfectly); but because the Lord really has final authority, then if the husband gives up his authority through rebellion (not listening to/following God) and his wife continues obediently with God, then He can bypass the husband's authority because of the wife but will not exert authority over the husband through the wife.
If you don't get what I'm saying, just read 1Cor. 7, especially verse 14: "The unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise, your children would be unclean, but now they are holy." If you have any questions, ask.
Regarding the above point, the Holy Spirit does not give every single answer all at once but often "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little" (Isa. 28:10). The only real thing Jesus told the disciples before He left was to wait in the city until the Spirit came on them. After the Spirit came on them, they were to be led by Him through currently-proceeding revelation.
I say all that to say that the answer to your question is contained not on the surface of the Bible but in currently-proceeding revelation. You asked, "If you have a woman Pastor, and she and her husband disagree on an issue, who is the final authority?" The answers for that are many, but I'm keeping my comments shorter these days so I'll just touch on one:
The Lord is the final authority; here is how it works: Genesis says God created them male and female. In other words, He created male and female as a perfect fit. If a wife is a pastor, then her husband is probably a minister too. But even if he isn't a minister and she is, the husband retains authority always in the home. The only time the wife may seem to have more authority is if the Lord commands something through the wife and the husband is in sin or rebellion. At that time, the husband no longer has authority (due to his rebellion) nor does the wife; the Lord has authority through the wife instead of through the husband as is His primary will. When the husband is walking in obedience, he has final authority no matter what (this authority in the Lord makes him submissive to his wife if she is right and he is wrong, so it works perfectly); but because the Lord really has final authority, then if the husband gives up his authority through rebellion (not listening to/following God) and his wife continues obediently with God, then He can bypass the husband's authority because of the wife but will not exert authority over the husband through the wife.
If you don't get what I'm saying, just read 1Cor. 7, especially verse 14: "The unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise, your children would be unclean, but now they are holy." If you have any questions, ask.
I said this on my last comment: "Until the Lord fully reveals every point about an issue, you have to wait for the revelation to be complete or else you will fall into error." That basically means we can't understand or latch to a thing until it is revealed to us.
For now, the only thing I see regarding the five-fold ministry being for men is this: when Elijah ascended in a burning chariot, his mantle fell down to Elisha. When Jesus ascended, He purposely divided His mantle into five parts and let them descend. In that particular meaning or way, the five-fold ministry as a mantle is only for males. A mantle is different from an office or gift or function. It is like how the word 'majestic' is masculine and a synonym of the masculine 'stately' but can be used for females as well as males; but the word 'stately' is masculine and can really only properly be used for males. Majestic implies wonder and grandeur; but stately implies strength and ascendancy as in 'a stately oak'. You don't hear about stately flowers but might hear the word 'majestic' used to describe a flower. This is why word meanings are very important. Isaiah said, "To us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders" (Isa. 9:6). The words 'government' and 'shoulder' tell me 'masculine' (as in a mantle that is placed, from ages back, on the shoulders of apprentices, nobility, princes, etc.).
Now, as for Junia or women who have ministry 'gifts' (not mantles of government which God has reserved for males as surely as male lions, not female lions, have manes), I believe that a woman can share a mantle with her husband (and that a woman can have a 'sub-calling' to the five-fold gifts). It seems that Andronicus and Junia were married, like Aquila and Priscilla, and that Andronicus was an apostle with Junia his wife sharing his mantle (and God does do this-- get husband and wife to share). I haven't looked into this but will wait for the revelation which will come. God sent Adam and gave him orders on how to rule earth; but He created Eve to be Adam's helpmate. If Eve was to help Adam rule, then she would have to be a ruler herself (as in a king and queen, not a king and his wife). This is how the Lord often works with ministry calling so that if a man holds a pastoral mantle, for example, his wife can share in it and rightfully be called a pastor as well (but a pastor to women). This is the pattern I see throughout the Bible, from OT to NT.
And I want to include one more thing. You said that Junia and Andronicus (who I believe were a couple) were not apostles but were just noted among the apostles. That might be true; but remember that most of the post-ascension apostles are not called apostles by title (twelve or more post-ascension apostles are mentioned in the NT) and when called apostles sometimes not named (from Acts through the Epistles we see this). Again, the Lord leaves it to us to seek the Spirit for revelation here. Sometimes, you have to get to the Greek words to know who is an apostle and who isn't. Matthias was the real 13th apostle, and Paul and Barnabas are named as apostles. Others such as Apollos, Silas, Timothy, and Epaphras are said to have been apostles by noting word usage and Greek meanings. For example, I wasn't looking to see who was what, but it took me just one verse to realize that Titus was a real authorized post-ascension apostle. In the verse, Paul tells Titus to do things that only an apostle has authority and ability to do. As an apostle himself, Paul would not have charged Titus to do this if Titus was not an apostle also (i.e. if God hadn't given Titus to Grace or ability and authority to do these things). Here is the verse:
"For this reason I left you (Titus) in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you" (1:5).
I highlighted the three standout points that authorize Titus specifically as an apostle. With each point, Titus' apostleship is made much more apparent so that where the first point says there's a 75% chance he was an apostle, the last point says there is a 90% chance he was an apostle; and all together, the three points say that he was undoubtedly an apostle. But not everyone can see these things just by reading; like the rest of God's Word, they have to be made plain by revelation. So, if a passage says, "They were outstanding among the apostles", it may mean just that: they were apostles with something unique about them which may have been their special 'dual-apostleship'. "Judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes" (1Cor. 4:5), so I'll wait till it's totally clear.
For now, the only thing I see regarding the five-fold ministry being for men is this: when Elijah ascended in a burning chariot, his mantle fell down to Elisha. When Jesus ascended, He purposely divided His mantle into five parts and let them descend. In that particular meaning or way, the five-fold ministry as a mantle is only for males. A mantle is different from an office or gift or function. It is like how the word 'majestic' is masculine and a synonym of the masculine 'stately' but can be used for females as well as males; but the word 'stately' is masculine and can really only properly be used for males. Majestic implies wonder and grandeur; but stately implies strength and ascendancy as in 'a stately oak'. You don't hear about stately flowers but might hear the word 'majestic' used to describe a flower. This is why word meanings are very important. Isaiah said, "To us a Son is given, and the government will be on His shoulders" (Isa. 9:6). The words 'government' and 'shoulder' tell me 'masculine' (as in a mantle that is placed, from ages back, on the shoulders of apprentices, nobility, princes, etc.).
Now, as for Junia or women who have ministry 'gifts' (not mantles of government which God has reserved for males as surely as male lions, not female lions, have manes), I believe that a woman can share a mantle with her husband (and that a woman can have a 'sub-calling' to the five-fold gifts). It seems that Andronicus and Junia were married, like Aquila and Priscilla, and that Andronicus was an apostle with Junia his wife sharing his mantle (and God does do this-- get husband and wife to share). I haven't looked into this but will wait for the revelation which will come. God sent Adam and gave him orders on how to rule earth; but He created Eve to be Adam's helpmate. If Eve was to help Adam rule, then she would have to be a ruler herself (as in a king and queen, not a king and his wife). This is how the Lord often works with ministry calling so that if a man holds a pastoral mantle, for example, his wife can share in it and rightfully be called a pastor as well (but a pastor to women). This is the pattern I see throughout the Bible, from OT to NT.
And I want to include one more thing. You said that Junia and Andronicus (who I believe were a couple) were not apostles but were just noted among the apostles. That might be true; but remember that most of the post-ascension apostles are not called apostles by title (twelve or more post-ascension apostles are mentioned in the NT) and when called apostles sometimes not named (from Acts through the Epistles we see this). Again, the Lord leaves it to us to seek the Spirit for revelation here. Sometimes, you have to get to the Greek words to know who is an apostle and who isn't. Matthias was the real 13th apostle, and Paul and Barnabas are named as apostles. Others such as Apollos, Silas, Timothy, and Epaphras are said to have been apostles by noting word usage and Greek meanings. For example, I wasn't looking to see who was what, but it took me just one verse to realize that Titus was a real authorized post-ascension apostle. In the verse, Paul tells Titus to do things that only an apostle has authority and ability to do. As an apostle himself, Paul would not have charged Titus to do this if Titus was not an apostle also (i.e. if God hadn't given Titus to Grace or ability and authority to do these things). Here is the verse:
"For this reason I left you (Titus) in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you" (1:5).
I highlighted the three standout points that authorize Titus specifically as an apostle. With each point, Titus' apostleship is made much more apparent so that where the first point says there's a 75% chance he was an apostle, the last point says there is a 90% chance he was an apostle; and all together, the three points say that he was undoubtedly an apostle. But not everyone can see these things just by reading; like the rest of God's Word, they have to be made plain by revelation. So, if a passage says, "They were outstanding among the apostles", it may mean just that: they were apostles with something unique about them which may have been their special 'dual-apostleship'. "Judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes" (1Cor. 4:5), so I'll wait till it's totally clear.
Now where on earth does the Bible say such a thing? Can you not look back at your post and see how much of it is merely your saying things, and not scripture?
There are 3 kinds of apostles (authoritative ambassadors) in the Bible:
1) Apostle of God (Christ);
2) Apostles of Christ (the 12 & Paul),
3) Apostles of local churches "your apostle."
There is no evidence whatever that Timothy was an apostle of Christ.
There is no passage to prove that there are more Apostles of Christ than the 12 + Paul. If Barnabas, for example, was an apostle of The Church of Antioch, that does not make him an apostle of Christ.
There are 3 kinds of apostles (authoritative ambassadors) in the Bible:
1) Apostle of God (Christ);
2) Apostles of Christ (the 12 & Paul),
3) Apostles of local churches "your apostle."
There is no evidence whatever that Timothy was an apostle of Christ.
There is no passage to prove that there are more Apostles of Christ than the 12 + Paul. If Barnabas, for example, was an apostle of The Church of Antioch, that does not make him an apostle of Christ.
Pardon me, Allin, I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I think that passage has been quoted out of context so many times that people don't realize that what Isaiah is saying is that taking God's word "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little" is the wrong way to approach God's word -- no scripture is of private interpretation. Look at the context & see if you don't agree with me that Isaiah is condemning the "here a little, there a little" etc. approach:
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
I can imagine the word groan after this statement:
"For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little [sigh, groan]"
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
I can imagine the word groan after this statement:
"For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, there a little [sigh, groan]"
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Obviously it means all men, and "one by one" is masculine in Greek. For 1 Cor 14 tells women to keep silent in the assembly. Now women indeed were given the gift of prophecy and prophesied, but properly not in the church meeting.
26 What is it then, brethren? When ye come together,
each one [ ἕκαστος masculine]
hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If anyone speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and that in turn; and let one man [ εἷς masculine]
interpret: 28 but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 And let the prophets speak by two or three, and let
the others [masculine οἱ ἄλλοι]
discern. 30 But if a revelation be made to
another man [masculine ἄλλῳ]
sitting by, let
the first [masculine ὁ πρῶτος]
keep silence.
31 For ye all can prophesy
one by one [masculine καθ᾿ ἕνα],
that all may learn, and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,
34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
26 Τί οὖν ἐστιν, ἀδελφοί; ὅταν συνέρχησθε, ἕκαστος ψαλμὸν ἔχει, διδαχὴν ἔχει, ἀποκάλυψιν ἔχει, γλῶσσαν ἔχει, ἑρμηνείαν ἔχει· πάντα πρὸς οἰκοδομὴν γινέσθω. 27 εἴτε γλώσσῃ τις λαλεῖ, κατὰ δύο ἢ τὸ πλεῖστον τρεῖς καὶ ἀνὰ μέρος, καὶ εἷς διερμηνευέτω· 28 ἐὰν δὲ μὴ ᾖ διερμηνευτής, σιγάτω ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ, ἑαυτῷ δὲ λαλείτω καὶ τῷ θεῷ. 29 προφῆται δὲ δύο ἢ τρεῖς λαλείτωσαν καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι διακρινέτωσαν· 30 ἐὰν δὲ ἄλλῳ ἀποκαλυφθῇ καθημένῳ, ὁ πρῶτος σιγάτω. 31 δύνασθε γὰρ καθ᾿ ἕνα πάντες προφητεύειν, ἵνα πάντες μανθάνωσιν καὶ πάντες παρακαλῶνται. 32 καὶ πνεύματα προφητῶν προφήταις ὑποτάσσεται, 33 οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἀκαταστασίας ὁ θεὸς ἀλλὰ εἰρήνης.
26 What is it then, brethren? When ye come together,
each one [ ἕκαστος masculine]
hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If anyone speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and that in turn; and let one man [ εἷς masculine]
interpret: 28 but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 And let the prophets speak by two or three, and let
the others [masculine οἱ ἄλλοι]
discern. 30 But if a revelation be made to
another man [masculine ἄλλῳ]
sitting by, let
the first [masculine ὁ πρῶτος]
keep silence.
31 For ye all can prophesy
one by one [masculine καθ᾿ ἕνα],
that all may learn, and all may be exhorted; 32 and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets; 33 for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints,
34 let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
26 Τί οὖν ἐστιν, ἀδελφοί; ὅταν συνέρχησθε, ἕκαστος ψαλμὸν ἔχει, διδαχὴν ἔχει, ἀποκάλυψιν ἔχει, γλῶσσαν ἔχει, ἑρμηνείαν ἔχει· πάντα πρὸς οἰκοδομὴν γινέσθω. 27 εἴτε γλώσσῃ τις λαλεῖ, κατὰ δύο ἢ τὸ πλεῖστον τρεῖς καὶ ἀνὰ μέρος, καὶ εἷς διερμηνευέτω· 28 ἐὰν δὲ μὴ ᾖ διερμηνευτής, σιγάτω ἐν ἐκκλησίᾳ, ἑαυτῷ δὲ λαλείτω καὶ τῷ θεῷ. 29 προφῆται δὲ δύο ἢ τρεῖς λαλείτωσαν καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι διακρινέτωσαν· 30 ἐὰν δὲ ἄλλῳ ἀποκαλυφθῇ καθημένῳ, ὁ πρῶτος σιγάτω. 31 δύνασθε γὰρ καθ᾿ ἕνα πάντες προφητεύειν, ἵνα πάντες μανθάνωσιν καὶ πάντες παρακαλῶνται. 32 καὶ πνεύματα προφητῶν προφήταις ὑποτάσσεται, 33 οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ἀκαταστασίας ὁ θεὸς ἀλλὰ εἰρήνης.
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You're wrong. Firstly the KJV is not the only translation one should read, there are many proofs against this. but If you would like me to show you women pastors from the KJV here you go "[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Arial, Liberation Sans, FreeSans, sans-serif]Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me." Romans 16:7[/FONT]
also before you bring the verse in timothy up, it says over a man. There can be female pastors as long as they are under the authority of male pastors of the church. But again in Galatians 3:28 in the kjv [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Arial, Liberation Sans, FreeSans, sans-serif]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Therefore since there is no difference between male and female why can't a woman be a pastor[/FONT]
also before you bring the verse in timothy up, it says over a man. There can be female pastors as long as they are under the authority of male pastors of the church. But again in Galatians 3:28 in the kjv [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Arial, Liberation Sans, FreeSans, sans-serif]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Therefore since there is no difference between male and female why can't a woman be a pastor[/FONT]
What is your proof of that? Do you approve of the strong mariolatry of the Byzantine "church"?
Now don't argue that the doctrine of Divine Preservation means the Byzantine texts are the best, for all the manuscripts that are in existence have been preserved in the sovereignty of God. And the Oldest manuscripts have a longer preservation time.
My approach is to prefer the oldest texts, and readings from a variety of text families or geographical regions when one text type disagrees with the others, not that there are many significant difference anyway.
Now don't argue that the doctrine of Divine Preservation means the Byzantine texts are the best, for all the manuscripts that are in existence have been preserved in the sovereignty of God. And the Oldest manuscripts have a longer preservation time.
My approach is to prefer the oldest texts, and readings from a variety of text families or geographical regions when one text type disagrees with the others, not that there are many significant difference anyway.