The Sin of Pacifism

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elf3

Guest
#81
Job's wife looked at the outward appearance of things too. She seen bad things happening to Job and her family and she desired Job to curse God. She was not looking at the big picture that God had for Job's life in his time of testing.
I don't curse God. This has nothing to do with defending yourself, family or the general public.
 
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elf3

Guest
#82
For the natural man walks by sight but the spiritual man walks by faith or in those things that are unseen. For without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For even in certain battles in the Old Testament, we had seen it was actually God who was giving His people the victory. A sword? A gun? Ha. Such puny weapons compared to the protection of the Almighty! Nothing happens by random chance in this life. God ks testing you to have faith in Bim and not the arm of your flesh or the carnal wepons of this world.
Skip I have more faith and trust in God than you think. You judge me in that way saying I don't trust God because I will defend my family to the death of me or their assailant? You judge me but you think Jesus turned water into grape juice. You best sit in your chair with your glass of juice and think. We are done here.

When someone attacks your family trying to kill them you fight back with words. I got my .380 or my 9mm. 5 seconds of them shooting at you while you talk good luck. 2.5 seconds for me to draw and shoot on target.

Whoever reads this go on and judge me that's fine. My judge is Jesus! If he sees it at a sin no skin off your back.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#83
I don't curse God. This has nothing to do with defending yourself, family or the general public.
I know you're not going to curse God. That's not the point. The point is that she was looking at Job's outward challenge in a physical way and she was not looking at the death of her family and Job's suffering in health and wealth in a spiritual way. In other words, there is no difference between Job's suffering and the suffering of any other believer for the glory of God.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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#84
I've noticed a lot of pacifism sentiments are being expressed in this forum, so I thought I'd challenge them directly here.
So if pacifism is a sin then will aggression be rewarded?
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#85
When did Jesus war or call his disciples to war? What part of " take up your cross and follow me " is justification for war?
What part of "take up your cross and follow me" equates to not protecting innocent people?
 
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Ecclesiastik

Guest
#86
I have absolutely no moral problem, for instance, with the extermination of ISIS, believe this a just war which needs to be fought. To do nothing is to support and encourage these heinous crimes against humanity. I've always liked the saying, though not in the Bible,

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
I'm not sure if anyone else has already commented on this because I don't feel like reading 5 pages of comments in the 5 minutes before I have to go to work but this shows the whole root of what is wrong with supporting war.

"I have no problem with sending human beings straight to hell with my gun or sword."

There is no compassion or love for your enemy. You are in sin and so are all of you that feel this way.

If you want to destroy ISIS, get your Bible and buy a ticket to Iraq and preach Christ until there isn't a sinner left amongst them or your blood is spilled.

If you want to destroy souls and deny your faith, take your gun.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#87
I believe all things (Whether good or bad) work together for good to those that love God. For it's what what we see in the story of Joseph.
So let me get this straight. We can use old testament experiences when it supports your view but not when it disagrees?
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#88
God is either the same forever and always or He's not. God sure didn't mind when Sampson was killing philistines. Or when David slay Goliath. "there is a time for everything." I think the real problem here is most people have one view or another. As if EVERYONE who is trying to hurt someone should be defended against with force or NO ONE who is attacking someone should be defended against with force. There is a time for both. We must trust God to show us which is which.
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#89
Was it sinful for me to teach my 9 year old little sister how to defend herself against a grown man? Is it sinful for me to want my children to learn how to defend themselves? It astounds me that anyone could have "God's love" in their heart and would be so callous as to let other people suffer needlessly. If you don't want to defend yourself that's fine, but don't take away other peoples options to defend themselves or their children. Who among you would blame a mother for striking a kidnapper in the face with her purse?
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#90
Skip I have more faith and trust in God than you think. You judge me in that way saying I don't trust God because I will defend my family to the death of me or their assailant? You judge me but you think Jesus turned water into grape juice. You best sit in your chair with your glass of juice and think. We are done here.

When someone attacks your family trying to kill them you fight back with words. I got my .380 or my 9mm. 5 seconds of them shooting at you while you talk good luck. 2.5 seconds for me to draw and shoot on target.

Whoever reads this go on and judge me that's fine. My judge is Jesus! If he sees it at a sin no skin off your back.
It is not wrong to correct another believer if they are not in line with God's Word (2 Timothy 3:16). For no doubt you didn't have to speak so as not judge that I am wrong. So you see. The Judgment card doesn't really work or apply in this situation. Especially seeing Jesus told us to judge righteous judgment. And are you not judging another when you choose to take their life with a loaded weapon? How exactly is trusting in a carnal weapon faith in God that He can protect you? Do you believe God can protect you? If so, then why do you need the gun?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#91
While salvation has always been in God's grace by faith, your Bible is divided into two sections for a reason. Read Hebrews 9. It mentions how there are are only two covenants or two testaments (i.e. the Old Testament and the New Testament). Read the articles at Grace Community International. They helped me to understand this topic. Check them out here:

The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International

Also being joint heirs of Abraham means that we are all one in Christ. It doesn't mean we are under any part of the Old Covenant (Whether it was before the written Law or when the Law of Moses was in effect).
Abraham did not live by the Mosaic Law but by faith in God's promises, the way we are to walk.The promises to Abraham were give 400 years before the law. So your smoke about Abraham being under the old covenant (not true) and therefore could partake in a rescue, while we can't is also false.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#92
I'm not sure if anyone else has already commented on this because I don't feel like reading 5 pages of comments in the 5 minutes before I have to go to work but this shows the whole root of what is wrong with supporting war.

"I have no problem with sending human beings straight to hell with my gun or sword."

There is no compassion or love for your enemy. You are in sin and so are all of you that feel this way.

If you want to destroy ISIS, get your Bible and buy a ticket to Iraq and preach Christ until there isn't a sinner left amongst them or your blood is spilled.

If you want to destroy souls and deny your faith, take your gun.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Amen, my friend.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#93
So much for New Testament pacifism.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(Rev 19:13-15)

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
(Rev 19:17-19)

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
(Rev 19:21)
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#94
So let me get this straight. We can use old testament experiences when it supports your view but not when it disagrees?
It's a basic teaching of Scripture that the New Testament replaces the Old Testament. Every Christian should know that because Scripture makes that fact abundantly clear. I didn't invent it as per defense of any other particular doctrine. I learned about it thru studying God's Word and by reading at GCI.org (Grace Community International). Type in "gci.org law of moses" into Google and you will be able to read many articles with Scripture on the topic.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#95
It's a basic teaching of Scripture that the New Testament replaces the Old Testament. Every Christian should know that because Scripture makes that fact abundantly clear. I didn't invent it as per defense of any other particular doctrine. I learned about it thru studying God's Word and by reading at GCI.org (Grace Community International). Type in "gci.org law of moses" into Google and you will be able to read many articles with Scripture on the topic.
Replaced? What replaced the Abrahamic Covenant? Why do I see much OT prophecies yet to be fulfilled in Revelation? Is not all the Tribulation and Millennium prophecies yet to be fulfilled, or were they replaced by the NT?
Replacement is only in the Levitical system/ Law of Moses by Christ.
 
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Mar 18, 2011
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#96
It's a basic teaching of Scripture that the New Testament replaces the Old Testament. Every Christian should know that because Scripture makes that fact abundantly clear. I didn't invent it as per defense of any other particular doctrine. I learned about it thru studying God's Word and by reading at GCI.org (Grace Community International). Type in "gci.org law of moses" into Google and you will be able to read many articles with Scripture on the topic.

I'm not interested in what GCI has to say
I'll trust my bible.

2 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#97
So much for New Testament pacifism.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
(Rev 19:13-15)

And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
(Rev 19:17-19)

And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
(Rev 19:21)
I already stated here and in the old thread at TOL that while I am commanded by God to be a pacifist now, I will not be one when I follow Him at His 2nd Coming. As I said before to another poster, if God tells me to stop, I stop and if He tells me to go I go. Besides, I will be returning WITH Christ having lived out my faith already here upon this Earth. In other words, no living believer will be commanded to go to war. Only when we are in spirit form is when we will follow Jesus into battle.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#98
Jason,

So if a rapist was about to slit your dauughters throat and you had a gun on the table next to you, you wouldn't use it to save her life?
 
Mar 18, 2011
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#99
God Will Save Me
A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.
A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”
The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”
As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”
The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”
The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.
A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”
Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.
When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”
And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”


Taken from Epistle.us/inspiration/godwillsaveme
 
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