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J
Yes, but also using an example of the way it is, which everybody can understand: a vigilant and strong man will not permit the crime. In other words, a perfect example, such that, "Everybody knows a strong man defends his home," this also true in spiritual matters. People weren't standing around then and saying, "Wait, Lord! We all know being a strong man is bad, we are to lay down for crime, not resist any evil, so what are you talking about?" Neither did the Lord criticize the strong man, rather recommended such emulation.
J
How much more Pharisaic can it get?
Luke 18:10-12 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are [like that publican, protecting my holier than thou read end], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luke 18:10-12 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are [like that publican, protecting my holier than thou read end], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
E
I think you misunderstood that. Let me explain what he meant before people start dog-piling Jason before he even gets a chance to respond.
He meant that God will use non-believers to be the scourge of non-believers. In other words, yes wars and evil things are going to happen in the future. But it won't be the Christians ushering these things in. Similar to how God was going to punish Israel but He wasn't going to bring in a crowd of prophets to kill women and children and rip babies up in the womb. He was going to use evil Babylon to do it.
Does that make sense?
He wasn't saying "Let the unbelievers take the risk!" He was saying we shouldn't do evil so that good may come.
He meant that God will use non-believers to be the scourge of non-believers. In other words, yes wars and evil things are going to happen in the future. But it won't be the Christians ushering these things in. Similar to how God was going to punish Israel but He wasn't going to bring in a crowd of prophets to kill women and children and rip babies up in the womb. He was going to use evil Babylon to do it.
Does that make sense?
He wasn't saying "Let the unbelievers take the risk!" He was saying we shouldn't do evil so that good may come.
In the model prayer, Jesus showed us to pray for our daily bread Mt 6:11. This does not mean man can sit and do nothing and God will miraculously intervene giving man food to eat. Even though prayer is to be made for daily bread man still has the responsibility to go and work for his food, "don't work, don't eat". Likewise, I cannot not pray expecting God to miraculously intervene to provide protection for me while I sit and do nothing but I have responsibility to provide protection for myself.
E
That is actually precisely what George Mueller did. He prayed for his orphans breakfast because they had none to give. A milk truck broke down in front of the orphanage and decided to give it to the orphans rather than let it spoil and a breadmaker came with several loafs after feeling pressed to do it the night before.
It's not my own thoughts, nor is it selfish. It's a truth that you are not aware of in Scripture. God is sovereign over His creation. God's Word teaches that unbelievers are used by God for His purposes. They are His ministers in justice (Romans 13:1-4), such as Assyria being God's rod of anger against Israel (Isaiah 10:5-6); For Pharaoh was raised up into power so that the Lord's name could be declared among the Earth (Romans 9:17); For what Joseph's brothers intended for evil, God intended it for good (Genesis 50:20), for all things work together for good to those who love God (Romans 8:28).
Either way, God's purpose will be accomplished in a person's life in a person's life, but the Lord would prefer it if you were to obey His Word and love your enemies and not wound or kill them. He would prefer you bring down spiritual strong holds, which will go a lot farther in bringing peace to your city or town.
Either way, God's purpose will be accomplished in a person's life in a person's life, but the Lord would prefer it if you were to obey His Word and love your enemies and not wound or kill them. He would prefer you bring down spiritual strong holds, which will go a lot farther in bringing peace to your city or town.
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2Ch 20:1 It came to pass after this also, that the children of Moab, and the children of Ammon, and with them other beside the Ammonites, came against Jehoshaphat to battle.
2Ch 20:2 Then there came some that told Jehoshaphat, saying, There cometh a great multitude against thee from beyond the sea on this side Syria; and, behold, they be in Hazazontamar, which is Engedi.
So what did Jehoshaphat and Judah do? Open the armory and arm everyone and then figure out a battle plan and go out and kill the multitude?
2Ch 20:3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
2Ch 20:4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.
2Ch 20:5 And Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
2Ch 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
2Ch 20:8 And they dwelt therein, and have built thee a sanctuary therein for thy name, saying,
2Ch 20:9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.
2Ch 20:10 And now, behold, the children of Ammon and Moab and mount Seir, whom thou wouldest not let Israel invade, when they came out of the land of Egypt, but they turned from them, and destroyed them not;
2Ch 20:11 Behold, I say, how they reward us, to come to cast us out of thy possession, which thou hast given us to inherit.
2Ch 20:12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.
2Ch 20:13 And all Judah stood before the LORD, with their little ones, their wives, and their children.
2Ch 20:14 Then upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite of the sons of Asaph, came the Spirit of the LORD in the midst of the congregation;
2Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.
2Ch 20:16 To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel.
2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.
2Ch 20:21 And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed singers unto the LORD, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army, and to say, Praise the LORD; for his mercy endureth for ever.
2Ch 20:22 And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.
2Ch 20:23 For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another.
2Ch 20:24 And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.
So what are we to do? Arm ourselves, learn martial arts and fighting skills, oh and just in case maybe we ought to pray?
What do you put your faith and trust in? Smith and Wesson? or in God Almighty?
2Ch 20:2 Then there came some that told Jehoshaphat, saying, There cometh a great multitude against thee from beyond the sea on this side Syria; and, behold, they be in Hazazontamar, which is Engedi.
So what did Jehoshaphat and Judah do? Open the armory and arm everyone and then figure out a battle plan and go out and kill the multitude?
2Ch 20:3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and set himself to seek the LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
2Ch 20:4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: even out of all the cities of Judah they came to seek the LORD.
2Ch 20:5 And Jehoshaphat stood in the congregation of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,
2Ch 20:6 And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?
2Ch 20:7 Art not thou our God, who didst drive out the inhabitants of this land before thy people Israel, and gavest it to the seed of Abraham thy friend for ever?
2Ch 20:8 And they dwelt therein, and have built thee a sanctuary therein for thy name, saying,
2Ch 20:9 If, when evil cometh upon us, as the sword, judgment, or pestilence, or famine, we stand before this house, and in thy presence, (for thy name is in this house,) and cry unto thee in our affliction, then thou wilt hear and help.
2Ch 20:10 And now, behold, the children of Ammon and Moab and mount Seir, whom thou wouldest not let Israel invade, when they came out of the land of Egypt, but they turned from them, and destroyed them not;
2Ch 20:11 Behold, I say, how they reward us, to come to cast us out of thy possession, which thou hast given us to inherit.
2Ch 20:12 O our God, wilt thou not judge them? for we have no might against this great company that cometh against us; neither know we what to do: but our eyes are upon thee.
2Ch 20:13 And all Judah stood before the LORD, with their little ones, their wives, and their children.
2Ch 20:14 Then upon Jahaziel the son of Zechariah, the son of Benaiah, the son of Jeiel, the son of Mattaniah, a Levite of the sons of Asaph, came the Spirit of the LORD in the midst of the congregation;
2Ch 20:15 And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God's.
2Ch 20:16 To morrow go ye down against them: behold, they come up by the cliff of Ziz; and ye shall find them at the end of the brook, before the wilderness of Jeruel.
2Ch 20:17 Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.
2Ch 20:21 And when he had consulted with the people, he appointed singers unto the LORD, and that should praise the beauty of holiness, as they went out before the army, and to say, Praise the LORD; for his mercy endureth for ever.
2Ch 20:22 And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD set ambushments against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten.
2Ch 20:23 For the children of Ammon and Moab stood up against the inhabitants of mount Seir, utterly to slay and destroy them: and when they had made an end of the inhabitants of Seir, every one helped to destroy another.
2Ch 20:24 And when Judah came toward the watch tower in the wilderness, they looked unto the multitude, and, behold, they were dead bodies fallen to the earth, and none escaped.
So what are we to do? Arm ourselves, learn martial arts and fighting skills, oh and just in case maybe we ought to pray?
What do you put your faith and trust in? Smith and Wesson? or in God Almighty?
But let's say that you led this evil person to the Lord, even after they killed or abused your family. Would not your mission to love even your enemies make a difference? For do you realize that no harm can come to me unless God approves of it? For every hair on my head is numbered and God is aware of every sparrow that falls around me.
I heard a testimony of a man who came to Christ once at TOL. He was a sniper (I think SWAT) before coming to the Lord. He was about to take the kill shot and take down somebody he believed to be bad. But something held Him back in squeezing the trigger. He later was led to the Lord by this person he was going to kill. In other words, you are not in control, when you think you are in control. Sure, you can try to take life by the horns and act like you are God who can protect everyone better than God can, but you are not God. God is the One who ultimately gives life and takes life. A person cannot pass the day they are appointed to die. And no believer can be tested or hurt unless God approves of it (See the story of Job).
I heard a testimony of a man who came to Christ once at TOL. He was a sniper (I think SWAT) before coming to the Lord. He was about to take the kill shot and take down somebody he believed to be bad. But something held Him back in squeezing the trigger. He later was led to the Lord by this person he was going to kill. In other words, you are not in control, when you think you are in control. Sure, you can try to take life by the horns and act like you are God who can protect everyone better than God can, but you are not God. God is the One who ultimately gives life and takes life. A person cannot pass the day they are appointed to die. And no believer can be tested or hurt unless God approves of it (See the story of Job).
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Also, again. Folks here are making a case that does not exist within the New Testament. Jesus and the apostles never once showed us that we can attack others physically or fight back with super sharp swords and or fists of fury. Everyone is pointing to either the Old Testament (Which involved a chosen nation and the written Law of Moses). Folks here are twisting parables and or certain fuzzy verses (taken out of context)( in the New Testament to make their case. Sorry, that's not going to work. If what you say is true, there needs to be clear evidence in Scripture that Jesus and the apostles could fight and attack their enemies. We need to see Paul and or one of the apostles write about the proper art of war (If this is the case). On the contrary, we see nothing like this, but the exact opposite in Scripture. The New Testament teaches us to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek. Turn the other cheek was in reference to an OT passage about taking somebody's eye physically if someone took your eye. So yes, Jesus requires you to not focus on hurting others but in loving others under this current dispensation.
Not painting myself into your fear filled faithless scenario so as to bring about something negative in the future. I rebuke your evil thoughts about my future family right here and right now in the name of Jesus Christ. But to answer your question: A true believer wouldn't use the gun. Sorry. Jesus told the New Testament believer to pray for his enemies and to do good to them that intend harm against them. Jesus said turn the other cheek. A true believer would rebuke this person in the name of Jesus to stop (while they trusted in God). For nobody is in control over the timing of anyone's death. Every person has a set time they are going to die. They cannot pass that appointed time. God is the giver and taker of life.