The Sin of Pacifism

[Rachel20]

To have issues with pacifism is one thing.
To call it doctrine of demons and a sin is another.


I haven't had the entire time to read all the posts in this thread except the OP, but I am sure it degenerated into self defense and a guns issue long back.

Pacifism at the heart of it is opposition to war and violence. Not stand and do nothing because angels will save you. ( I am sure God can even make that happen if He wants)

And why?

I strongly am for all non violent means and dialogue. The reason being, I believe that every human being deserves a chance at life and we are nobody to take away anyone's life.

Crime should be dealt with in court and justice delivered in a proper manner.

Yes, in extreme situations, to protect one's family I can understand the use of any tool or implement to save somebody. It's not wrong.
However the taking of someone's life is a final resort and the most abhorrent thing ever.

In today's bloodthirsty world, where people mercilessly kill each other and don't think twice about turning a gun on one another, do I think pacifism or encouraging non violence solely for the sake of compassion a sin?

It's too ridiculous to even delve into. You're just baiting one man here about his views.

I believe that one man's death was enough for the whole world. That was Jesus Christ. I'd rather give people a shot at life than a shot that causes death.

 

[JesusIsAll]

So if a rapist was about to slit your daughters throat and you had a gun on the table next to you, you wouldn't use it to save her life?

Of course not. When the Lord ordains a murderous thug come and slit the young girl's throat, it's because her number was up. It's like all those people on that jumbo jet that crashed, who had coincident number up times, all those at the World Trade Center, or all the victims of a volcano or tsunami.

Sometimes, crossnote, there's nothing left to be redeemed from the discussion.

 

[Jason0047]

I pray that the Lord will give you a clear understanding of Romans 12:18

You can't stop reading at verse 18. You idea that you can take vengeance or repay is refuted in the next passage. For it says,

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Romans 12:19). You are making an inference from verse 18 that does not exist. If it all possible live peacefully with all men. For verse 17 says do not repay anyone evil for evil. For verse 14 says bless them that persecute you. Verse 21 says be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good. Taking up a gun (evil) is not overcoming evil. That is what the world does. We are a chosen people who is to be holy and separate and different. For Peter wanted to prevent Jesus from being crucified. All Peter could see was the physical world in that instance (Kind of like what everyone here is doing). But Jesus rebuked Peter because He did not have the mind of God. Peter was not thinking spiritually but outwardly. Physically. Looking at what he could see and not trusting in Christ's plan of redemption (That was to come with Him going to the cross). For we must all pick up our cross and emulate Christ. For we are to conform to His image. Not our own image (of what we think is good and right).

 

[crossnote]

Not painting myself into your fear filled faithless scenario so as to bring about something negative in the future. I rebuke your evil thoughts about my future family right here and right now in the name of Jesus Christ. But to answer your question: A true believer wouldn't use the gun. Sorry. Jesus told the New Testament believer to pray for his enemies and to do good to them that intend harm against them. Jesus said turn the other cheek. A true believer would rebuke this person in the name of Jesus to stop (while they trusted in God). For nobody is in control over the timing of anyone's death. Every person has a set time they are going to die. They cannot pass that appointed time. God is the giver and taker of life.

Thanks for showing your true colors.

 

[gzusfrk]

You can't stop reading at verse 18. You idea that you can take vengeance or repay is refuted in the next passage. For it says,

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (Romans 12:19). You are making an inference from verse 18 that does not exist. If it all possible live peacefully with all men. For verse 17 says do not repay anyone evil for evil. For verse 14 says bless them that persecute you. Verse 21 says be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good. Taking up a gun (evil) is not overcoming evil. That is what the world does. We are a chosen people who is to be holy and separate and different. For Peter wanted to prevent Jesus from being crucified. All Peter could see was the physical world in that instance (Kind of like what everyone here is doing). But Jesus rebuked Peter because He did not have the mind of God. Peter was not thinking spiritually but outwardly. Physically. Looking at what he could see and not trusting in Christ's plan of redemption (That was to come with Him going to the cross). For we must all pick up our cross and emulate Christ. For we are to conform to His image. Not our own image (of what we think is good and right).

Well I hope its not my 5 year old granddaughter being raped by a gang of men when you walk by and say peace be with you.

 

[Jason0047]

Of course not. When the Lord ordains a murderous thug come and slit the young girl's throat, it's because her number was up. It's like all those people on that jumbo jet that crashed, who had coincident number up times, all those at the World Trade Center, or all the victims of a volcano or tsunami.

Sometimes, crossnote, there's nothing left to be redeemed from the discussion.

First, do you not believe Job 1:21 that says, "

"the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away;"


​

Second, all children go to heaven. Third, this life is not the by all and end all of existence. There is reality behind this reality. When people die, it is not out of God's control. God is the giver and taker of life. I can't understand how you can't know that simple truth in Scripture. Is God powerless to stop people from dying or in giving them life if they did die?

 

[gzusfrk]

People have really lost the value of life, its got to the point where they care more about the guy that suffered because the lethal injection didnt work right, than the girl he raped for a week then killed.

 

[Jason0047]

Thanks for showing your true colors.

My true colors is in trusting in God that He is the giver and taker of life and that He will protect me and my family. My true colors is in trusting upon the words of Jesus and the apostles to do good towards my enemies and not evil. I have no need for replacing my arm with a chain saw or a machine gun. No do I have a need to train my hands to be like fists of fury to punch thru walls and people's chests. Nor do I have a desire to build a mote around my home and place sharks in them so as to attach laser beams to their foreheads so that they can fend off intruders that would intend harm against my house.

 

[Jason0047]

People have really lost the value of life, its got to the point where they care more about the guy that suffered because the lethal injection didnt work right, than the girl he raped for a week then killed.

Your fighting the wrong way. If you know anything about war, taking down the leaders who were strategizing where to place the troops was key to winning the battle and or the war. In other words, if you spiritually pull down principalities or spiritual wickedness in high places (i.e. demons), you will help to bring peace to your city and town versus say stopping one bad guy at a time physically. Your efforts in preaching the gospel, praying for the peace of your land, and in fighting spiritually will go farther than any physical battle that you might wage.

 

[gzusfrk]

Your fighting the wrong way. If you know anything about war, taking down the leaders who were strategizing where to place the troops and where to go was key to winning the battle and or the war. In other words, if you spiritually pull down principalities or spiritual wickedness in high places (i.e. demons), you will help to bring peace to your city and town versus say stopping one bad guy at a time physically. Your efforts in preaching the gospel, praying for the peace of your land, and in fighting spiritually will go farther than any physical battle that you might wage.

I really cant believe you wrote that.. I think there's a saying that starts out ..for good men to do nothing

 

[Rachel20]

People have really lost the value of life, its got to the point where they care more about the guy that suffered because the lethal injection didnt work right, than the girl he raped for a week then killed.

So you're saying valuing life would mean torturing the criminal instead ?

 

[Jason0047]

I really cant believe you wrote that.. I think there's a saying that starts out ..for good men to do nothing

I don't think you understand what I just said. I am not doing nothing. If I focused on taking down principalities (demons) down that cause violence in my city, it will go farther to create peace than stay stopping one criminal at a time. I am cutting off the head of the snake that is causing the spirit of violence within my area. My prayers, my preaching the gospel and getting people saved spiritually brings peace to the land and is far better than any physical war I could wage to stop criminals on my own power.

 

[gzusfrk]

So you're saying valuing life would mean torturing the criminal instead ?

No, I'm saying we should care more for the victim, Not saying we should not love you enemys, but we should not love what they do.

 

[gzusfrk]

I don't think you understand what I just said. I am not doing nothing. If I focused on taking down principalities (demons) down that cause violence in my city, it will go farther to create peace than stay stopping one criminal at a time. I am cutting off the head of the snake that is causing the spirit of violence within my area. My prayers, my preaching the gospel and getting people saved spiritually brings peace to the land and is far better than any physical war I could wage to stop criminals on my own power.

Sounds great but it doesnt work like that.,. Or should I say how are you cutting off the head of the snake within your area, Its like your saying ..I'll preach to everyone and there will be no more evil.

 

[elf3]

I said I was done last night but I had to come back because of noticing something.

It seems some of you who are defending complete pacifism are basically saying "the victims time was up". By not acting in defense of defenseless people you are, for lack of better words, "helping the assailent".

I have my carry conceal permit to defend those defenseless people if needed whether it takes one shot or all 3 magazines.

Jesus said to turn the other cheek...newsflash! You only have two cheeks.

 

[Deadtosin]

That is actually precisely what George Mueller did. He prayed for his orphans breakfast because they had none to give. A milk truck broke down in front of the orphanage and decided to give it to the orphans rather than let it spoil and a breadmaker came with several loafs after feeling pressed to do it the night before.

And God used humans to do His work.

 

[Deadtosin]

Also, again. Folks here are making a case that does not exist within the New Testament. Jesus and the apostles never once showed us that we can attack others physically or fight back with super sharp swords and or fists of fury. Everyone is pointing to either the Old Testament (Which involved a chosen nation and the written Law of Moses). Folks here are twisting parables and or certain fuzzy verses (taken out of context)( in the New Testament to make their case. Sorry, that's not going to work. If what you say is true, there needs to be clear evidence in Scripture that Jesus and the apostles could fight and attack their enemies. We need to see Paul and or one of the apostles write about the proper art of war (If this is the case). On the contrary, we see nothing like this, but the exact opposite in Scripture. The New Testament teaches us to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek. Turn the other cheek was in reference to an OT passage about taking somebody's eye physically if someone took your eye. So yes, Jesus requires you to not focus on hurting others but in loving others under this current dispensation.

Turn the other cheek was not a reference to an eye for an eye. You state things like you are so sure and you are so surely wrong. "If a man strike you on the right cheek turn your left cheek as well." A right handed person would strike you on your left cheek. Jesus is referring to a backhand or the use of the "dirty" left hand, both of which are insults. Nothing at all like eye for an eye tooth for a tooth justice.

 

[Deadtosin]

So you're saying valuing life would mean torturing the criminal instead ?

who's torturing? It has to do with stopping the event. However if anyone should be hurt it's the man trying to harm the innocent.

 

[dcontroversal]

Of course not. When the Lord ordains a murderous thug come and slit the young girl's throat, it's because her number was up. It's like all those people on that jumbo jet that crashed, who had coincident number up times, all those at the World Trade Center, or all the victims of a volcano or tsunami.

Sometimes, crossnote, there's nothing left to be redeemed from the discussion.

Really...well two things wrong...God does not lead someone to sin and TIME and CHANCE happen unto all according to SOLOMON....

So...????????

 

[tourist]

I understand and agree with defending someone elses life for you would not know if they lived that you might have a chance to minister to them before their appointed time,but be sure that you are not defending yourself because you fear physical death more than going to be with the lord.

If someone threatens those that I care about I will certainly defend them with appropriate use of force.