The Sin of Pacifism

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
You have to realize that I do not intend anyone harm in any way shape or form. If I believed that violence was what God wanted me to use to help protect people, then I would have no problem with it. But God has commanded me otherwise. So I trust in God and seek to love others and to follow His plan. For nobody has shown any Scripture of Jesus and the apostles fighting back in the New Testament. Nor had they laid down any doctrine on the proper Christian ethic on the art of war, either.

Anyways, I do love you, my friend; And I understand your frustration. It is not towards me but it is actually towards Jesus Christ and His Word. But if you want to put me on ignore, I understand. Just go to "settings" at top and then click on "Edit Ignore List" that is listed on the left hand side column.

In any event, may God bless you.
And please be well.
And I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Jesus Christ.
Side Note:

Also, please do not take this the wrong way, but usually when a person is really emotionally upset, it is because something is not right at home. I am not saying your an atheist, but when I used to be an atheist, I remember getting really upset when one of my friends tried to debate that there was a God. I see this a lot with people who have a false theology, too. People who have a wrong view of Scripture tend to get overly emotional and attack the believer who is calm and loving and at peace with God and His Word. Granted, no believer is perfect; But this is just what I have seen happen a lot in my many years of debating with others on God's Word online. It become about "me" and not about what Scripture says.
 
E

elf3

Guest
I am not going to type the whole thing out but you should read Matthew 25:31-46. Then tell me what it says not what you want it to say.
 
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
22
0
Jason, thank you for the information regarding ignore. I hate the idea that I would ever put someone on that list. I've never done it before, and never really thought a reason could exist I would need to. I am not frustrated with Jesus or the Word of God. I was frustrated with all of your other doctrinal changes IE grapejuice, but I could tolerate it. This is different. There is no creation on this earth more precious than a child. You say you would do something to stop it but you wouldn't be willing to physically harm them. Which really means you wouldn't do anything. You twist everything around, whether it's "we are judge, jury and executioner" or "eye for an eye" as if this were vengeance. Or "turn the other cheek" as if this were about insult. It goes on and on. But the fact remains that you are not only saying that you won't do what needs to be done to protect the innocent, you are speaking for God as if He commands us not to protect them either- dismissing the entirety of the old testament to do so. I am not frustrated with Jesus. I know Jesus and it didnt' come from any website over grapejuice. I just can't see your words anymore because I haven't felt this badly in a long time. It's almost a rage. So for my sake- goodbye.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
What if the person you let die was to be the next paul?
In my belief on God's Word, there is no such thing as me letting somebody die because God is the giver and taker of life. What I do or don't do does not in any shape or form mean I hold the keys of death within my hand like Jesus Christ. Also, I believe there is no such thing as letting a person die unless I were to deny the faith. I am commanded to love. Loving means doing everything within your power to help people to live by any means necessary within the confines that I was given by my loving Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. God did not tell me to love my enemies so as to shackle me but to free me in helping to lead all people to Jesus Christ. I have the confidence, that if I obey Jesus' commands to love my enemies and not to render evil for evil, then I can take assurance that Jesus will protect all those who need to be protected so that they can be like the next Pauls.
 
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
22
0
Side Note:

Also, please do not take this the wrong way, but usually when a person is really emotionally upset, it is because something is not right at home.

yes sir, you can say that I have a personal stake when it comes to children's safety. I get very emotionally involved. There is no calm and loving aspect when a childs safety is in question. I become bear.. 100% bear.
 
E

elf3

Guest
Jason my guess is you are not married and don't have kids..correct?
 
E

elf3

Guest
yes sir, you can say that I have a personal stake when it comes to children's safety. I get very emotionally involved. There is no calm and loving aspect when a childs safety is in question. I become bear.. 100% bear.
All you become is bear? Oh man do we need to talk...I have to teach you in the art of bear, mongoose, lion and especially honey badger lol
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Jason, thank you for the information regarding ignore.
Your welcome. I am here to serve.

I hate the idea that I would ever put someone on that list. I've never done it before, and never really thought a reason could exist I would need to. I am not frustrated with Jesus or the Word of God.
I am not saying you are the world (or that you are a part of it), but Jesus said if the world hates you, then it is not the world that hates you but it the world actually hating Jesus. My point is that if what I say is true according to God's Word (Which I believe it is true because loving your enemies and not hurting them is clear for all to see and read in the New Testament), then it is not me that sickens you, my friend. My encouragement is to talk to God about. Don't take my word for it. By all means no. Please employ Jeremiah 33:3 to your life on this topic and do not lean on your own understanding.

I was frustrated with all of your other doctrinal changes IE grapejuice, but I could tolerate it.
So you are saying that Dictionary.com and older dictionaries are lying about wine being unfermented and fermented?

This is different. There is no creation on this earth more precious than a child.
I agree. Such as these are of the Kingdom of God.

You say you would do something to stop it but you wouldn't be willing to physically harm them. Which really means you wouldn't do anything. You twist everything around, whether it's "we are judge, jury and executioner" or "eye for an eye" as if this were vengeance. Or "turn the other cheek" as if this were about insult. It goes on and on. But the fact remains that you are not only saying that you won't do what needs to be done to protect the innocent, you are speaking for God as if He commands us not to protect them either- dismissing the entirety of the old testament to do so. I am not frustrated with Jesus. I know Jesus and it didnt' come from any website over grapejuice. I just can't see your words anymore because I haven't felt this badly in a long time. It's almost a rage. So for my sake- goodbye.
Rage is not one of the fruits of the Spirit. You are upset over the safety of a child. Which is good because we are commanded to love and protect people. But I just as equally be upset at some parents that does not put shark body armor on their child when they swim in the ocean. Would my anger be justified? Or would I be placing shackles of fear upon that child's life? My point is that God is in control of this life. Not you. Every situation that presents itself is an opportunity for me to glorify Jesus Christ to save soul's spiritually. My battle is spiritual and not physical. You are still waging a physical war. I am waging a spiritual war. For Paul says the weapons of our warefare are not carnal. But yet you still seem to think that they are (Which runs contrary to Paul's words). I say this not to get you further upset or to wound you in any way, but for you to believe every word in the New Testament plainly. For where I am standing it seems like you are denying what Scripture is saying. For Jesus makes a clear reference to the OT about an eye for an eye and then He makes an ammendment or change to that OT Law by sayiing, BUT I SAY UNTO YOU. He saying to love your enemies. Not render evil for evil. I see no clause for us to kill or to render evil for evil.

In any event, I wish you well.
And I am praying that the Lord will open your eyes on this.

May God bless you greatly.

Sincerely,

~Jason.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
yes sir, you can say that I have a personal stake when it comes to children's safety. I get very emotionally involved. There is no calm and loving aspect when a childs safety is in question. I become bear.. 100% bear.
I am glad you have a zeal to protect the innocent. I also have a zeal to protect the innocent, too. I just don't disobey my Lord's commands to do it, though. Your disobedience of our Lord's commands and your establisment to set about your own righteousness is why you are really upset. For the man of God does not fear anything but God. You are in fear over what might happen to children. My God is in control of this life. My God is the giver and taker of life and I trust that He has a plan in everything that happens in this life.
 
Last edited:
E

elf3

Guest
I am glad you have a zeal to protect the innocent. I also have a zeal to protect the innocent, too. I just don't disobey my Lord's commands to do it, though. Your disobedience of our Lord's commands and your establisment to set about your own righteousness is why you are really upset.
No he is upset because you value a criminals life over a victims.

What are your words "I would wrestle to the ground" "I would rebuke" I would preach ect ect

Instead of totally stopping the assailent dead dead dead you would win them to Christ as they kept shooting (in a shooting incident). As they were killing you would be preaching. PERFECT IDEA!
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Jason my guess is you are not married and don't have kids..correct?
My about me page is more than what I really care to share. Now, I have on occasion shared little things, but I tried to keep it to a minimum. I don't have a facebook and twitter account because I believe discussing my personal life online is a smart thing to do. If you desire to paint me or the ones I care about in a negative scenario, I feel that such a thing is wrong and I will rebuke such dark thoughts about me or my loved ones in the name of Jesus Christ.
 
Last edited:
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
No he is upset because you value a criminals life over a victims.

What are your words "I would wrestle to the ground" "I would rebuke" I would preach ect ect

Instead of totally stopping the assailent dead dead dead you would win them to Christ as they kept shooting (in a shooting incident). As they were killing you would be preaching. PERFECT IDEA!
All life has value in the eyes of God. For it is a chance for them to repent. But you take away that chance if you set out to kill them, though.
 
Mar 18, 2011
2,540
22
0
The problem with talking to you Jason is that you don't seem to acknowledge simple obvious truths. Jewish wedding feast... They drink wine. Fermented wine, it's been a tradition from the old testament to this day. You dismiss such obvious facts. Then you compare me being furious that you wouldn't do everything you could to stop a murderer from killing a child to you being angry that a parent didn't put preventative clothing on a child that may or may not be attacked by a shark. It's as if you can't see the difference between. Shark could attack and human IS attacking. If you were really giving an accurate example you would have said "angry at a parent who didn't try to save their child from the shark" but you didn't. Every single thing you say is either a twist of doctrine, blatant disregard for common sense and historical facts. You say it like "this is all in love, and it's God's will and you are angry at God" and words like that irritate me because nothing you say addresses anything directly and simply. It's all ring around the rosie pocket full of nonsense.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
I am not going to type the whole thing out but you should read Matthew 25:31-46. Then tell me what it says not what you want it to say.
Yes, it doesn't say anything about killing anyone so as to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You want it to say that, but this passage in no way says that. You are seeing something that is not there. Nowhere does our Lord command us to kill anyone in the New Testament. Show me the verse.
 
E

elf3

Guest
My about me page is more than what I really care to share. Now, I have on occasion shared little things, but I tried to keep it to a minimum. I don't have a facebook and twitter account because I believe discussing my personal life online is a smart thing to do. If you desire to paint me or the ones I care about in a negative scenario, I feel that such a thing is wrong and I will rebuke such dark thoughts about me or my loved ones in the name of Jesus Christ.
Dude really? I was just trying to get and idea of where your thinking was coming from.

If i want a scenario I'll use my own family.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
The problem with talking to you Jason is that you don't seem to acknowledge simple obvious truths. Jewish wedding feast... They drink wine. Fermented wine, it's been a tradition from the old testament to this day. You dismiss such obvious facts. Then you compare me being furious that you wouldn't do everything you could to stop a murderer from killing a child to you being angry that a parent didn't put preventative clothing on a child that may or may not be attacked by a shark. It's as if you can't see the difference between. Shark could attack and human IS attacking. If you were really giving an accurate example you would have said "angry at a parent who didn't try to save their child from the shark" but you didn't. Every single thing you say is either a twist of doctrine, blatant disregard for common sense and historical facts. You say it like "this is all in love, and it's God's will and you are angry at God" and words like that irritate me because nothing you say addresses anything directly and simply. It's all ring around the rosie pocket full of nonsense.
I love you by the power of Jesus Christ. And Jesus loves you, too. He loves all people. And nothing happens without His say so. All things happen for a reason. Do you really think God is powerless about what goes on in this world? Do not all things work for good to them that love God? Did we not see this in Joseph's life and Job's life?
 
E

elf3

Guest
Yes, it doesn't say anything about killing anyone so as to protect those who cannot protect themselves. You want it to say that, but this passage in no way says that. You are seeing something that is not there. Nowhere does our Lord command us to kill anyone in the New Testament. Show me the verse.
No it doesn't say kill but you could add protect in there as "done to the least of these" couldn't you?
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
Dude really? I was just trying to get and idea of where your thinking was coming from.

If i want a scenario I'll use my own family.
You were bringing up my personal life so that you could make it personal and make me think about the safety of my own family. What other reason would you have brought it up for?
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
What you didn't notice that the person you let die was your fiancee?
I rebuke your dark words here (And any future words) that you have towards my fiancé in the name of Jesus Christ. If you persist, may your mouth be stopped (in the name of Jesus).
 
Last edited: