We establish the Law...but how?

[crossnote]

The topic is how do we Christians establish the Law? I am pulling out God's Law from the Law of sin and death as explained here http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/99588-we-establish-law-but-how.html#post1696922

Before we can establish law for a Christian, we have to know what that verse is talking about. Namely, faith does not void law, but faith establish law.

Yes, we have died to that Law of sin and death. But, we are also told that we serve God's Law with the mind, as Paul explained.

Is that your explanation of 'establishing the law?'

 

[psychomom]

May I ask you to explain why you feel Paul was talking against law other than it is not to be used for salvation. Everyone knows that, it isn't part of the differences we have.

Oh, Ma'am, quite the contrary! I don't think these verses speak against the Law at all!

I believe this verse, Rom 3:31, is properly elevating the Law.
God's Law is Perfect, just as God Himself is.
It's demand is for absolute perfection...perfect obedience, not merely in what we do,
but in what motivates us to do it.

When Jesus gave the Law in the Sermon on the Mount, He was doing the same thing.
He was telling those who heard it (and us) that God's Law is much, much more than what we do.
It's internal...it includes our motivation and every deed, word, and thought.
We are not actually keeping the Law unless every second of every day we want to keep it.
We are not keeping the Law just by refraining from murder...we have broken it the moment we
are angry at another.

Only the Lord Jesus ever kept the Law in the way it was intended to be kept.
That's why receiving Christ's Righteousness is so necessary for sinners like us.

Paul is establishing the Law (or upholding, as my NASB says) on its proper basis
and with its proper regard...recognizing the Law's demand for perfect obedience.

That's why I say I try to walk in obedience to the Lord,
but never fool myself into believing I'm actually keeping God's Holy, Perfect Law.

Does that make sense?
love to you, Ma'am,
ellie

 

[cfultz3]

Okay, here we go still again, and no need to add anything, maybe just take it or leave it this is my entire response, which is not even mine?

And what about these Scriptures?

Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Rom 14:1-6 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Remember, God is able to make him stand?)
​

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
​

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So: Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Remember, God is able to make him stand?)​

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.​

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.​

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

So: Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Remember, God is able to make him stand?)​

What do we do with God's Law? Is that Law also legalism?

 

[cfultz3]

Is that your explanation of 'establishing the law?'

THE LAW, no....

LAW, yes. Faith establishs law, it does not void law.

We are liberated from 'THE LAW' of sin and death, and are now under God's Law, that Law from the Spirit Christ sent, that Law which is fulfilled by Love, the Law from Christ.

'the Law' does not equal 'law'.

 

[crossnote]

It seems some of us see Rom 8:31 having to do with Christ's obedience and our justification while others are thinking in terms of our walk of obedience and sanctification.
Look closely at chapters 3 and 4. Is it's context justification or sanctification?

 

[cfultz3]

Is that your explanation of 'establishing the law?'

Did you see the link...the blue letters?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Does that make sense?

Absolute sense, and the only way the law was ever fulfilled, every jot and tittle, was in our Lord Jesus. This is exactly what He was saying in Matthew 5:17-18. There has been nor will be any other who's fulfilled the law. Without His righteousness, we would be damned. Here's our righteousness to a Holy God,

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[crossnote]

Did you see the link...the blue letters?

How would you answer post #65?

 

[cfultz3]

It seems some of us see Rom 8:31 having to do with Christ's obedience and our justification while others are thinking in terms of our walk of obedience and sanctification.
Look closely at chapters 3 and 4. Is it's context justification or sanctification?

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Sorry, I do not see the connection. Maybe wrong verse?

 

[crossnote]

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Sorry, I do not see the connection. Maybe wrong verse?

Oops rom 3:31 >I'll correct that.

 

[cfultz3]

Absolute sense, and the only way the law was ever fulfilled, every jot and tittle, was in our Lord Jesus. This is exactly what He was saying in Matthew 5:17-18. There has been nor will be any other who's fulfilled the law. Without His righteousness, we would be damned. Here's our righteousness to a Holy God,

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

What about the righteous dead from the Law, those who came up with Jesus when He was resurrected? Did they not keep the righteousness of the Law and by which, they were delivered from death by their perpetual Sacrifice?

 

[crossnote]

It seems some of us see Rom 8:31 having to do with Christ's obedience and our justification while others are thinking in terms of our walk of obedience and sanctification.
Look closely at chapters 3 and 4. Is it's context justification or sanctification?

Correction : Rom 3:31

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[cfultz3]

How would you answer post #65?

Allow us to see what it says first and then we can go from there once we reach an agreement as to what it says. Okay?

Post #11

Having been delivered from the Law of sin which is in one's fleshly members through Jesus Christ, we then serve God's Law with our mind/heart (I shall write my Law upon their heart). But, with the flesh, we serve that Law of sin (and death). (Rom 7:23-25)

Seeing that there are two sets of Laws being spoken about, Law of sin and God's Law, and in verse 22, we are told that Paul delights in God's Law, and in verse 23, we see that the Law of sin wars against that Law which God placed in our mind/heart, then we can conclude that the Law of sin is the Law which we have been liberated from and brought under the Law of the Spirit sent by Christ known as God's Law.

Have we been liberated from God's Laws which are fulfilled by Jesus' command: Love....? Does not the Spirit have law?

You asked how do we establish the Law? We don't establish 'the Law', neither do we 'make void the Law' (KJV inserted the definite article in both instances). With that said, the question in Rom 3:31 is, 'Do we then make void law through faith? May it not be so. Yes, we establish law'. That is, we Christian are still under law. Specifically, that Law from the Spirit which walks us in love and by which love, we do fulfill God's Law, the same Law Christ commanded of us to fulfill. And as to the rest of 'the Law', Christ took care of that for us....

So, through faith, we do not void law, we establish law. That is, faith is not the instrument which is used (through) to void law, but is the instrument which is used (through) to establish law.

Let us all say, 'Lead on Spirit'.

 

[crossnote]

Allow us to see what it says first and then we can go from there once we reach an agreement as to what it says. Okay?

Post #11

I'm asking about Rom 3 and 4. So far I take it you see Rom 3:31 'establishing the law' as a result of our walk.

 

[just-me]

If it were not for the law. We may not know that we are sinners. No man or woman can uphold the law being in the flesh.
So we are saved by faith. Jesus also says, Those that know me and Love me. will do my will.For my sheep know my voice. (Words to that effect) So being saved by faith does not mean we can do as we wish. I believe there is scripture saying those who attempt to live by the law shall be judged by the law. Jesus works in ones heart. Why then is there so much Bible text arguments going on? This all seems so easy and makes sense too me.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

 

[cfultz3]

I'm asking about Rom 3 and 4. So far I take it you see Rom 3:31 'establishing the law' as a result of our walk.

Please Crossnote, read what I am saying. No, that verse does not say that we do establish THE LAW. But nevertheless, it says: faith establishes law, as in the Law from the Spirit, God's Law. Faith does not void law.

 

[psychomom]

What about the righteous dead from the Law, those who came up with Jesus when He was resurrected? Did they not keep the righteousness of the Law and by which, they were delivered from death by their perpetual Sacrifice?

hmm...there is no righteousness apart from Christ, right?

those who kept the outward performance of the Law were blameless,
but that's not the same thing as righteous, I'm thinking.

those whom Christ brought with Him after He was raised from the dead
can only have been righteous by faith.
faith that God would one day send their Messiah. (and all that entails)
right?

 

[cfultz3]

hmm...there is no righteousness apart from Christ, right?

those who kept the outward performance of the Law were blameless,
but that's not the same thing as righteous, I'm thinking.

those whom Christ brought with Him after He was raised from the dead
can only have been righteous by faith.
faith that God would one day send their Messiah. (and all that entails)
right?

But, for them to have made it to Abraham's Bosom, would they not have had to done the righteousness of the Law, down to the last sacrifice? They who fulfilled the Law, received their Messiah. They who were lawless, as it is with us, did not/will not receive their Messiah. But, are/will be on the other side of that prism which separated the then Abraham's Bosom from the corruption which Christ did not see when He went there.

 

[crossnote]

It seems some of us see Rom 3:31 having to do with Christ's obedience and our justification while others are thinking in terms of our walk of obedience and sanctification.
Look closely at chapters 3 and 4. Is it's context justification or sanctification?

Please Crossnote, read what I am saying. No, that verse does not say that we do establish THE LAW. But nevertheless, it says: faith establishes law, as in the Law from the Spirit, God's Law. Faith does not void law.

Which position of the above do you take? It does say we establish the Law, but how? Thru our walk of 'obedience' or exalting Christ's perfect obedience to the Law?
It really isn't a hard question I keep asking you.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Faith does not void law.

Wouldn't void a warranty, either, but this means precious little, when your appliance craps out in the thirteenth month.