We establish the Law...but how?

[royalscot]

9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Romans 4

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 2



16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3: You Must Be Born Again


58 "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands. Mark 14:

 

[john832]

9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well,12 and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
Romans 4

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners;16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 2



16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3: You Must Be Born Again


58 "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands. Mark 14:

So what are you saying, because no one is justified by the works of the Law, we are not to obey the Law?

 

[chubbena]

Previously addressed, here.

Pay attention. . .you're going in circles.

I was merely showing you who is circling. Of course I would let you have the last word.

 

[royalscot]

So what are you saying, because no one is justified by the works of the Law, we are not to obey the Law?

prove the full law of moses was given to anyone after 70 ad. with no temple (stone) how can you follow fully without a temple stone ,with the requirment the temple had on the law of moses.
did cornelius repent to get the holy spirit(acts 10)
acts 15 was the gentile given the full law of moses.


when did the law save you.

3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
Galatians 3: By Faith, or by Works of the Law?

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

9 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.Galatians 3:

 

[john832]

prove the full law of moses was given to anyone after 70 ad. with no temple (stone) how can you follow fully without a temple stone ,with the requirment the temple had on the law of moses.
did cornelius repent to get the holy spirit(acts 10)
acts 15 was the gentile given the full law of moses.


when did the law save you.

And my standard answer is "when did disobedience to the Law save you?"

Obedience does not save, it is a condition to salvation though...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God does not give the down payment on eternal life to just anyone...

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit is the earnest or down payment on eternal life. That down payment is not given to Lawbreakers.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Elin]

And my standard answer is "when did disobedience to the Law save you?"

Obedience does not save, it is a condition to salvation though...

You set the Scripturee against themselves,

proving you do not understand them correctly,

for the word of God does not contradict itself.

 

[john832]

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

 

[chubbena]

...And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.Galatians 3:

In the end times many christs shall come but the Christ in the Bible is the Word of God who said man lives by every word coming from the mouth of God.

 

[Elin]

Obedience does not save, it is a condition to salvation though...

You set the Scripturee against themselves,

proving you do not understand them correctly,

for the word of God does not contradict itself.

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because
it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

I'm thinkin' setting the Scriptures against themselves would not be one of the mysteries of the kingdom,
if that is your meaning.

 

[crossnote]

So, you don't think anything was done away? You believe that ALL TEN Commandments are in effect and have been magnified?

The law was fulfilled in Christ yet judges guilty those who reject Christ. The ten Commandments along with the 603 others were given to Israel not the Church. The moral law was restated by Paul (which excludes the Sabbath) and is written in the believers heart in the new birth.
So no, the moral law still stands and judges our self righteousness.

 

[royalscot]

And my standard answer is "when did disobedience to the Law save you?"

Obedience does not save, it is a condition to salvation though...

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God does not give the down payment on eternal life to just anyone...

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

The Holy Spirit is the earnest or down payment on eternal life. That down payment is not given to Lawbreakers.

1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.1
you and me will need to ask god what he ment.
with 70 ad etc. who can follow the full law. (temple stone)


but i am talking about gentile believers. grace a gift.




38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.




Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.





Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. (your quote.)
must be talking to jewish people or in context to what is being said to them.

was a gentile saved yet, act 10 has not happen yet. in time that is,

acts 15 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." follow full law to jewish christains. key word being jewish.



28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.3


1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8: Life in the Spirit

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.your quote

is rev a dream, vision, so how can it be read as wrote

 

[crossnote]

Thanks for explaining but no one here has said we put God's law in our hearts. On the other hand, if one has God's law in his heart one would certainly not speak against His law spoken through Moses by the Word of God.
Don't see why one would bracket those by faith establish the law in "a forgiven 'natural' man who's duty is to keep the law in their freed state". This is a good example of preconception.

See above.

 

[RedTent]

No one can see the truth by cherry picking scripture. To know how God wants us to understand law we must accept every scripture about law, those telling us what it is for and those telling us what it is not for. Many here are quoting scripture that is not leading to truth at all even though the scripture they quote is truth because it is cherry picking scripture.

What I am sure that the Lord finds of a sinful nature are those who say that some scripture is not for us! "only for Israel". To deny the word of the Lord is about as bad as it can get. Like saying that the God who gave the 613 laws was a terrible God who wanted to kill and stone people, only. It is reading scripture as a devil would, not for the spirit and truth of the Lord.

 

[Yahshua]

Yeah I think it's important to remember that there is only one group.

...if we are Messiah's we are "grafted into" Israel, of whom Christ is King.

Romans 11:17-18 - If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

John 10:16 - I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd


...and if we are Israel's we are to abide by the same Laws.

Numbers 15:29 - One and the same law applies to everyone who sins unintentionally, whether a native-born Israelite or a foreigner residing among you.


...and that no one adds to or takes away from it

Deuteronomy 4:2 - Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

...a book which says...

Revelation 14:12 - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...and also says...

Revelation 12:17 - Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring--those who keep God's commandments and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


- The "Testimony about Jesus" is salvation through faith in the Cross (Paul's grace message)

- "Keeping The Commandments of God" is obedience to God's Law (Christ's kingdom message)


Satan HATES those who do both...and will pull out all the stops so he can defeat them.

 

[just-me]

One has to know the law before trying to establishing it by faith. If ya don't know how, then what is evident? You have not taken the time to read the law because of doctrinal beliefs, or you just don't have the faith to comprehend the Spiritual aspects of it. Oh ya, desire is necessary also.

 

[crossnote]

Those who think all the law applies to the Church cherry pick when it comes to the curses...all of a sudden even though the curses went to Israel the Church gets off Scot free. You can't have it both ways, if you are going to apply the law to the Church you must include it's curses otherwise you are contradicting yourself by touting ''ALL Scripture''...such hypocrisy.

 

[Elin]

Yeah I think it's important to remember that there is only one group.

...if we are Messiah's we are "grafted into" Israel, of whom Christ is King.

Actually, we are grafted into the olive tree, of which believing Israel are branches on the tree,
as are the believing Gentiles.

The tree is the body of Christ, in whom all believers abide, as do branches in the tree.

 

[just-me]

Those who think all the law applies to the Church cherry pick when it comes to the curses...all of a sudden even though the curses went to Israel the Church gets off Scot free. You can't have it both ways, if you are going to apply the law to the Church you must include it's curses otherwise you are contradicting yourself by touting ''ALL Scripture''...such hypocrisy.

Curses come with disobedience. Consider the church of Laodicea. They still apply.

refer back to this post

 

[kennethcadwell]

Curses come with disobedience. Consider the church of Laodicea. They still apply.

The curses do not still apply.
In the mosaic law it was the curse ( punishment ) to stone a woman to death for adultery.
Lord Jesus says in the new covenant we are under, no that is not the way. For we are all guilty of sin, and deserve to die in them but we are no longer to issue those curses or punishments. Vengeance is Mine, says the Lord.
We are to leave life and death punishments up to Him.

Jesus took our punishment for our sins, and became our sacrifice. Why should we still face them when He took it on Himself.

 

[crossnote]

Those who think all the law applies to the Church cherry pick when it comes to the curses...all of a sudden even though the curses went to Israel the Church gets off Scot free. You can't have it both ways, if you are going to apply the law to the Church you must include it's curses otherwise you are contradicting yourself by touting ''ALL Scripture''...such hypocrisy.

Another ridiculousity appears when saying ALL Scripture applies to the Church is the issue of land. Not one square cm of land is promised to the church whereas land was promised to Israel.