What, not where is the "bosom of Abraham"

[just-me]

In this passage of scripture I noticed that the "rich man" doesn't talk to Lazarus but to Abraham instead.

Luke 16:22-25
22 And it came to pass , that the beggar died , and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died , and was buried ; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said , Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said , Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted , and thou art tormented.

Greek bosom=2859. kolpos kol'-pos apparently a primary word; the bosom; by analogy, a bay:--bosom, creek.

Analogy is a thing that is comparable to something else in significant respects. It is not an allegory.
An allegory creates a symbolic relationship between something abstract and something concrete, whereas an analogy creates a relationship between two concrete things that have something in common.

Genesis 16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived , I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.

Hebrew bosom=2436 cheyq khake or cheq {khake}; and chowq {khoke}; from an unused root, apparently meaning to inclose; the bosom (literally or figuratively):--bosom, bottom, lap, midst, within.

These are verses that might relate.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Genesis 17:9-10
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

The following link gives some understanding not only of Abraham's bosom, but the story of Lazarus and the rich man itself.

The Rich Man and Lazarus | Amazing Facts

God Bless

 

[just-me]

The following link gives some understanding not only of Abraham's bosom, but the story of Lazarus and the rich man itself.

The Rich Man and Lazarus | Amazing Facts

God Bless

Thanks, but the covenant (singular) with Abraham is not mentioned. The story is known by most people in the church, but the bosom of Abraham is what I'm questioning as to what it is.

 

[oldhermit]

Thanks, but the covenant (singular) with Abraham is not mentioned. The story is known by most people in the church, but the bosom of Abraham is what I'm questioning as to what it is.

The answer to you question is in verse 25, "now he is comforted." This story reveals two separate states of existence that await humanity after death. One will either be assigned to a state of torment or a state of comfort.

 

[Sola_Scriptura]

This is some extra-Biblical information, which of course is not in line with what the Scriptures teach.

Contemporary Jewish Concept of "Abraham's Bosom"

It is evident, from Jewish writings, that the Pharisees and various others of Christ's day believed in the idea of consciousness after death. Their concept of*hades*had greatly changed since the days of the patriarchs and the close of the Old Testament canon. And in the time of Jesus they believed much as did the Greeks and others around them.

Reference is made, in the parable just noted, to "Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22), an expression found no other place in Scripture. So far as the Bible is concerned, there is nothing to indicate where "Abraham's bosom" is, or what it signifies.

We find, however, that the expression appears in extra-Biblical literature, and that it was apparently a current concept, or tradition, of the Jewish people. Josephus, in his "Discourse Concerning Hades," states that they call "Abraham's bosom" the place of felicity to which the righteous go at death. The Talmud refers to it as "Abraham's lap" (Kiddushin*72b). It was evidently the common belief of many in the days of Jesus.

In fact, the description of hades, as given by Josephus, parallels very closely the narrative of the rich man and Lazarus. (Full statement quoted in additional note on p. 565.) There we read of the great gulf fixed, of the chamber of the righteous being within sight and speaking distance of the chamber where the wicked are tormented, and of other details referred to in the story as narrated by Jesus. Not only do these
concepts appear in the writings of Josephus, but they are to be found in other Jewish literature. Thus we read concerning*hades: (1) that*hades*was composed of two chambers (2 Esdras 4:41); (2) that one of these chambers was for the righteous; the other for the wicked (Midrash, on Ruth 1:1); (3) that the righteous inhabit one chamber (Wisdom of Solomon 3:1); the wicked the other, where they are accursed, scourged, and tormented (Enoch 22:9-13; Talmud*Erubin19a); (4) that the inhabitants of one chamber are visible to, and within speaking distance of, the inhabitants of the other chamber (Midrash, on Eccl. 7:14); (5) that the righteous are welcomed into hades by companies of ministering angels (Talmud*Kethuboth*104a; 4 Ezra 7:85-87, 91-95); (6) that the righteous are received into*hades*by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (4 Maccabees 13:17); and (7) that the righteous, as part of their reward, sit "in Abraham's lap" (Talmud*Kiddushin72 b). And Josephus gives this testimony: They also believe that souls have an immortal vigour in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again. Such was the setting of current concepts, or traditions, concerning*hades*as the home of the dead, at the time that Jesus referred to it in the parable.

We can definitely rule out Abraham's bosom being a physical place where the dead who are saved in Christ remain until His 2nd coming. There is no conciousness in death, so it cannot be a place of thought and actions.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Given the context, this text is speaking of a person in general, not a saved or lost person in particular. The reference to Abraham's bosom is not literal, but a symbol of something else, just like other symbols employed by Jesus to teach truth in all of His other parables.

God Bless

 

[john832]

The best explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man I have found...

The Real Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man

 

[just-me]

The answer to you question is in verse 25, "now he is comforted." This story reveals two separate states of existence that await humanity after death. One will either be assigned to a state of torment or a state of comfort.

I know that Lazarus was comforted but is that all there is to Abraham? Is not a substantial part of that bosom of Abraham the covenant of circumcision?

 

[just-me]

The best explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man I have found...

The Real Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man

I'm not asking for the meaning of the parable about Lazarus that the rich man. Nevertheless thank you for the site. I does say "everlasting habitations" which I think is close. I'm asking for a description of what Abraham's bosom is. Could it possibly be the promise of God's word for the Jews first and also the the gentiles. A promise that we can even see in the law that God gave to Moses because the seed of Abraham was actually Israel?

 

[oldhermit]

I know that Lazarus was comforted but is that all there is to Abraham? Is not a substantial part of that bosom of Abraham the covenant of circumcision?

Well, as to what all is involved in the state called Abraham's bosom, we simply are not told. All we are told about that seems to rest in this one account and the details are few. This is what is known as the hadean realm that serves as a temporary receptacle for the dead and is divided into two parts. I am not sure what you are asking with regard to the covenant of circumcision in connection with this.

 

[just-me]

This is some extra-Biblical information, which of course is not in line with what the Scriptures teach.

Contemporary Jewish Concept of "Abraham's Bosom"

It is evident, from Jewish writings, that the Pharisees and various others of Christ's day believed in the idea of consciousness after death. Their concept of*hades*had greatly changed since the days of the patriarchs and the close of the Old Testament canon. And in the time of Jesus they believed much as did the Greeks and others around them.

Reference is made, in the parable just noted, to "Abraham's bosom" (Luke 16:22), an expression found no other place in Scripture. So far as the Bible is concerned, there is nothing to indicate where "Abraham's bosom" is, or what it signifies.

We find, however, that the expression appears in extra-Biblical literature, and that it was apparently a current concept, or tradition, of the Jewish people. Josephus, in his "Discourse Concerning Hades," states that they call "Abraham's bosom" the place of felicity to which the righteous go at death. The Talmud refers to it as "Abraham's lap" (Kiddushin*72b). It was evidently the common belief of many in the days of Jesus.

In fact, the description of hades, as given by Josephus, parallels very closely the narrative of the rich man and Lazarus. (Full statement quoted in additional note on p. 565.) There we read of the great gulf fixed, of the chamber of the righteous being within sight and speaking distance of the chamber where the wicked are tormented, and of other details referred to in the story as narrated by Jesus. Not only do these
concepts appear in the writings of Josephus, but they are to be found in other Jewish literature. Thus we read concerning*hades: (1) that*hades*was composed of two chambers (2 Esdras 4:41); (2) that one of these chambers was for the righteous; the other for the wicked (Midrash, on Ruth 1:1); (3) that the righteous inhabit one chamber (Wisdom of Solomon 3:1); the wicked the other, where they are accursed, scourged, and tormented (Enoch 22:9-13; Talmud*Erubin19a); (4) that the inhabitants of one chamber are visible to, and within speaking distance of, the inhabitants of the other chamber (Midrash, on Eccl. 7:14); (5) that the righteous are welcomed into hades by companies of ministering angels (Talmud*Kethuboth*104a; 4 Ezra 7:85-87, 91-95); (6) that the righteous are received into*hades*by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (4 Maccabees 13:17); and (7) that the righteous, as part of their reward, sit "in Abraham's lap" (Talmud*Kiddushin72 b). And Josephus gives this testimony: They also believe that souls have an immortal vigour in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again. Such was the setting of current concepts, or traditions, concerning*hades*as the home of the dead, at the time that Jesus referred to it in the parable.

We can definitely rule out Abraham's bosom being a physical place where the dead who are saved in Christ remain until His 2nd coming. There is no conciousness in death, so it cannot be a place of thought and actions.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Given the context, this text is speaking of a person in general, not a saved or lost person in particular. The reference to Abraham's bosom is not literal, but a symbol of something else, just like other symbols employed by Jesus to teach truth in all of His other parables.

God Bless

Thanks. It is interesting in scripture that the rich man didn't talk with Lazarus. He talked with Abraham.

 

[john832]

I'm not asking for the meaning of the parable about Lazarus that the rich man. Nevertheless thank you for the site. I does say "everlasting habitations" which I think is close. I'm asking for a description of what Abraham's bosom is. Could it possibly be the promise of God's word for the Jews first and also the the gentiles. A promise that we can even see in the law that God gave to Moses because the seed of Abraham was actually Israel?

This is about as close as I understand it. I don't really know the answer for sure.

 

[just-me]

Well, as to what all is involved in the state called Abraham's bosom, we simply are not told. All we are told about that seems to rest in this one account and the details are few. This is what is known as the hadean realm that serves as a temporary receptacle for the dead and is divided into two parts. I am not sure what you are asking with regard to the covenant of circumcision in connection with this.

I tend to think it has everything to do with the covenant God made with Abraham and his offspring because of the faith he had in what God promised. The faith caused Abraham to respond positively to everything God spoke to him. I think the bosom of Abraham might be the same faith Abraham had. This faith carried on from generation to generation in those that trusted in the Word of God and all God promised through His word. I think it includes all God has ever spoken form the beginning of time. Even the ten words (ten commandments as some call them) written on stone was a covenant with Israel plus all that Moses wrote defining the words of that covenant. Could it be that the covenant with Abraham is also the same as with Israel being his descendants, and now we are also of his seed through Christ?

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed .Acts 3:25

 

[oldhermit]

I tend to think it has everything to do with the covenant God made with Abraham and his offspring because of the faith he had in what God promised. The faith caused Abraham to respond positively to everything God spoke to him. I think the bosom of Abraham might be the same faith Abraham had. This faith carried on from generation to generation in those that trusted in the Word of God and all God promised through His word. I think it includes all God has ever spoken form the beginning of time. Even the ten words (ten commandments as some call them) written on stone was a covenant with Israel plus all that Moses wrote defining the words of that covenant. Could it be that the covenant with Abraham is also the same as with Israel being his descendants, and now we are also of his seed through Christ?

Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed .Acts 3:25

Yes, all who are of faith are children of Abraham and his rest is shared by all those whom the Lord acknowledges.

 

[Jason0047]

First, none of the parables or stories told by Jesus were based off fictional events like "Once upon a time there was a three headed alien on Mars who played with fuzzy teddy bears." Second, people do not like the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man in being true or real, so they attempt to allegorize it in some way so as to fit what they think the afterlife should be like. The question one should ask themselves (with God's help), why would one want to allegorize it? What makes you feel uncomfortable about it?

Was the Rich Man being tortured in the flame?

No. The story doesn't say that. For there is a difference between one being "tortured" and one being "tormented."

In Luke 16:19-31: What many fail to understand is that when the Rich-man went to Torments (Hell or Hades), he was not actually being burned by any flames. In Luke 16:24, the Rich-man was referring to the fact about how he was tormented in the flame that was in front of him that was in the gulf that was between him and Abraham (Sort of like if I said I am happy in this car --- yet the car is in front of me). (Similar language like this can be found with the words "in these" in Isaiah 57:6 KJV). It was the heat of the flame that made him uncomfortable or tormented. For although I am open to understanding otherwise according to Scripture, I currently do not believe he was in extreme physical pain or torture. For if the Rich-man was engulfed by entire flames --- he wouldn't be asking for a little water to cool his tongue, he would be asking for a giant barrel of water or lots of buckets of water to lower the flame or to put it out.

 

[sassylady]

Jewish people did not know about Heaven, so they believed when a person died they went to the bosom of Abraham.

 

[just-me]

Jewish people did not know about Heaven, so they believed when a person died they went to the bosom of Abraham.

Isaiah knew it writing about Satan before the fall. He was a Hebrew though. "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:" Isaiah 14:13

 

[psychomom]

the seed of Abraham was actually Israel?

i'm sorry...what?

can you explain this with scripture, please?

 

[just-me]

I'm not asking for the meaning of the parable about Lazarus that the rich man. Nevertheless thank you for the site. I does say "everlasting habitations" which I think is close. I'm asking for a description of what Abraham's bosom is. Could it possibly be the promise of God's word for the Jews first and also the the gentiles. A promise that we can even see in the law that God gave to Moses because the seed of Abraham was actually Israel?

i'm sorry...what?

can you explain this with scripture, please?

Genesis 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Genesis 26:3-4
3 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed ;

Abraham's son was Isaac
Isaac's son was Jacob
*Jacob was renamed Israel by God.
Jacob had 12 sons and 2 grandsons by Joseph

Genesis 21:3 And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.

Genesis 25:6 And after that came his brother out , and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.

Genesis 32:28 And he said , *Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed .

Genesis 50:25 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die : and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.

Exodus 28:17-21
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.
21 And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve , according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.

Matthew 1:2a Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob;

These stones of the breastplate are represented in the wall of the New Jerusalem

Revelation 21:19-20
19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Romans 11:1 I say then , Hath God cast away his people? God forbid . For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Karraster]

The best explanation of Lazarus and the Rich Man I have found...

The Real Meaning of Lazarus and the Rich Man

brother thanks for this link, been thinkin on it all day. in my simple way of explaining "Abraham's bosom", all who will inherit the Kingdom of YaH, the faithful, are of Abraham.

 

[psychomom]

hmmmm...but what about this?

Gal 3:16
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.