What did the Jew receive first?

[peacefulbeliever]

Referring back to the original post.

OK, let's try this again

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

What was this mystery? Hint.....Did any Gentiles/Greeks write any books in the Bible? Were there any Gentiles equipped to explain the spiritual concepts of the foreshadow of things to come when they knew nothing about God's Word in the Old Testament?

I asked in response to your earlier post #218:

My only question would be the reasoning behind adding Romans 2:9,10 to the mix? Clearly, that section of scripture is speaking of God's judgment towards those who are "filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them [1:29-32]. . . . .2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. . . . 2:6-10 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, [judgment] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [judgment] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile.

I am just wondering how the above fits in with the subject of the "mystery" - the Gentiles being fellowheirs, and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel?

The question still stands

 

[just-me]

The story of Cornelius is a very good example of events concerning the Jews and Gentiles. Peter was told to deliver the message that Cornelius (being a Gentile) was included with the believing Jews.

Acts 10:13-15
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed , that call not thou common.

"And they said , Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee." (Acts 10:22)

Acts 10:25-31
25 And as Peter was coming in , Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying , Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30 And Cornelius said , Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold , a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said , Cornelius, thy prayer is heard , and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know , which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached ;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished , as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized , which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

This is a story about Peter delivering the message to a Gentile. To the Jew first and also to the Gentile. This is truly a beautiful story, even though Paul wasn't involved.

 

[just-me]

I asked in response to your earlier post #218:

The question still stands

go back to the OP
Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

I'm sorry that you haven't gotten the connection yet. In my opinion there was too much interference, and that's what might have casued you not to understand. This thread has been derailed more than once. God bless you sis

 

[peacefulbeliever]

go back to the OP
Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

I'm sorry that you haven't gotten the connection yet. In my opinion there was too much interference, and that's what might have casued you not to understand. This thread has been derailed more than once. God bless you sis

I still haven't gotten the connection . . . Couldn't you have just answered my question?

God's judgment is given to the Jew first and also to the Gentile and how it relates to the mystery - fellowheirs, ONE in the body of Christ, ONE new man - where there is neither Jew nor Gentile but all are ONE in the body of Christ - nope don't get the connection. There is now NO distinction between the Jew and Gentile but we are all members together making ONE in the body of Christ.

Please this is an honest question - Why should we continue to make a distinction between the Jew and the Gentile when God doesn't?

 

[just-me]

I still haven't gotten the connection . . . Couldn't you have just answered my question?

God's judgment is given to the Jew first and also to the Gentile and how it relates to the mystery - fellowheirs, ONE in the body of Christ, ONE new man - where there is neither Jew nor Gentile but all are ONE in the body of Christ - nope don't get the connection. There is now NO distinction between the Jew and Gentile but we are all members together making ONE in the body of Christ.

Please this is an honest question - Why should we continue to make a distinction between the Jew and the Gentile when God doesn't?

The message of salvation to the world is that the believing Gentiles are included in being fellow heirs with believing Jews. That message came to the Gentiles through the Jews.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

go back to the OP
Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

I'm sorry that you haven't gotten the connection yet. In my opinion there was too much interference, and that's what might have casued you not to understand. This thread has been derailed more than once. God bless you sis

Now that it has been established that there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek (Romans 10:12) the question still remains what did the Jews have that the Gentiles received afterwards? What was this mystery? Hint.....Did any Gentiles/Greeks write any books in the Bible? Were there any Gentiles equipped to explain the spiritual concepts of the foreshadow of things to come when they knew nothing about God's Word in the Old Testament?

Paul clearly says that this truth *now should be known to everyone.
Ephesians 3:8-10
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given , that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, *which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the **intent that *now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

 

[Elin]

Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given (or grace for grace in KJV) -

what is grace already given? The law given through Moses

Not quite. . .nice try at deceptively slipping the law into grace.

You've been flim-flammed by your contra-NT theology.

"Out of his fullness (Jesus Christ, vv. 14-15) we have all received grace on top of grace," (KJVII)

It is of Christ's fullness that we have all received grace, and that's not
"through the law of Moses."

for John 1:17 says: "For the law was given through Moses: grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

That's a distinction between, and not an identity of, the law of Moses and the grace of Jesus Christ.

The OT saints and
John saw the grace of God in the law given through Moses.

Previously addressed, above.

Jn 1:14-17 is clear and speaks for itself.

Only when one takes the whole scripture into account because the Messiah was before John the Baptist and that His grace was shown long before He came in the flesh. Some just have to pull words out of context to uphold his doctrine but at least the Roman Catholics were honest enough to say they are the only authority to interpret the Bible.

Addressed above.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The message of salvation to the world is that the believing Gentiles are included in being fellow heirs with believing Jews. That message came to the Gentiles through the Jews.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek - for any of those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved - no distinction - it is not the "believing Jew" nor the "believing Gentile" but those that belong to the body of Christ, the household of God, the church, those called to be saints.

Wherefore remember, that you being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time you were without Christ being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
Eph. 2:11,12

But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 13-16

Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God - built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple unto the Lord: in whom you also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. 19-22

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, if you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 3:1-7

I don't know why but I felt the need to post the above. And I apologize but I still don't get it - the time between the "sufferings of Christ" and the "glory of Christ" known as the dispensation of grace - was hid.

 

[Elin]

Referring back to the original post.

OK, let's try this again

You are some kinda' seriously confused.
And that is some kinda' serious misunderstanding of the text.

Try reading the texts just straight forward for a change,
and eschew all this convoluted nonsense you manufacture.

First of all, "by" is the Greek dia, which means "through; by means of."

Secondly, the mystery was hidden in God, not in the Jews.

Thirdly, the mystery is the manifold wisdom of God made known through the Church
to the principalities and powers.

God has done the seemingly impossible--reconciling and physically uniting Jews and Gentiles
in the Church--thereby displaying his manifold wisdom to the principalities and powers
in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.

None of that has anything to do with "what the Jews had that the Gentiles received afterwards."

This is like filling the Grand Canyon with a spoon.

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

What was this mystery? Hint.....Did any Gentiles/Greeks write any books in the Bible? Were there any Gentiles equipped to explain the spiritual concepts of the foreshadow of things to come when they knew nothing about God's Word in the Old Testament?

Ro 2:9-10 say nothing of a "mystery."

 

[Elin]

Actually, Eph 2:15 is not one of the "mysteries" stated by Paul.

You might want to take a look at

the mystery of the death of Christ (1Co 2:1),
the mystery of God's plan to sum up all things in Christ (Eph 1:9),
the mystery of God's plan to include both Jews and Gentiles in the NT Church (Eph 3:3-6),
the mystery of God's plan by which a remnant of both Jews and Gentiles, after a period of
disobedience by both, will by his mercy be included in his kingdom (Ro 11:25),
the mystery of the change that will take place at the resurrection (1Co 15:51)
the mystery of the incarnation (1Tim 3:16).

Yep those would be the mysteries reveled first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles....

In the NT, where the Jews were given the gospel before the Gentiles.

 

[psychomom]

Some here say the law (rather than the old covenant) of God spoken through Moses is replaced by the law (rather than the new covenant) of Christ.
Some went as far as saying that the old covenant is not of love that has to be replaced.
Which terms of the "old" covenant were so hard that the children of Israel live up to? Were these terms not given by the Word of God?

Psychomon, this is one of those I spoke about in my earlier post whom liked your post #206 but spoke against what you said there. Or may be you agreed with this poster and that I misunderstood your post.

just wanted you to know i saw this...
but the OP has asked for no further derailment, so in responding, i'm not going to respond.

how's that for confusing?

 

[Elin]

I am not hinting at anything. I totally agree that the mysteries were revealed first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles....

There is interference being run by others. This thread keeps running off the track from what should be very simple to understand. I'm saying that God used Israel as our example concerning His righteous judgment. It is ours to understand by the word of God. Gentiles are now included in this understanding through the Holy Spirit. As you read, and look closer to the previous posts, you will see that there are those that want to say Paul received a new and different enlightenment that those of the Jews.

You're confused again.

The revelation that Paul received from Jesus Christ (2Co 12:4-9),
he communicated to the believing Jews in the NT church.

It was a new and different revelation than the Jews received in the OT.

 

[blue_ladybug]

just wanted you to know i saw this...
but the OP has asked for no further derailment, so in responding, i'm not going to respond.

how's that for confusing?

you have me confused, psychomom!! lol

 

[psychomom]

you have me confused, psychomom!! lol

it's my superpower!

(forgive me, just-me?)

 

[just-me]

Let's start again


Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

What was this mystery? Hint.....Did any Gentiles/Greeks write any books in the Bible? Were there any Gentiles equipped to explain the spiritual concepts of the foreshadow of things to come when they knew nothing about God's Word in the Old Testament?

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Referring back to the original post.

OK, let's try this again

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

What was this mystery? Hint.....Did any Gentiles/Greeks write any books in the Bible? Were there any Gentiles equipped to explain the spiritual concepts of the foreshadow of things to come when they knew nothing about God's Word in the Old Testament?

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Yes - NOW it is revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets of the NT . . . .

Why oh why start it all over again? Can you just tell us out right what you are getting at? It seems that you want us to say that the Jews knew the mystery from the beginning . . . .

Again, what does the judgment of God have to do with the mystery? I am not trying to be hard headed nor facetious but I am really having trouble understanding the point - it seems you want to set forth things as "riddles" and I just can't follow you. Maybe if I just sit back for a while . . . .

 

[Elin]

Let's start again

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

What was this mystery? Hint.....Did any Gentiles/Greeks write any books in the Bible? Were there any Gentiles equipped to explain the spiritual concepts of the foreshadow of things to come when they knew nothing about God's Word in the Old Testament?

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Romans 2:9-10
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Ro 2:10 is in the context of Paul, after showing in 1:18-32 the unrighteousness of the Gentiles,
then showing the unrighteousness of the Jews also in 2:1--3:20.

Therein he links spiritual privilege with spiritual responsibility:

"There will be trouble and dishonor for every human being who does evil:
first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile.
For God does not sow favoritism." (Ro 2:9-11).

It's time for yo to stop taking verses out of context and turning them into nonsense.

 

[just-me]

Yes - NOW it is revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets of the NT . . . .

Why oh why start it all over again? Can you just tell us out right what you are getting at? It seems that you want us to say that the Jews knew the mystery from the beginning . . . .

Again, what does the judgment of God have to do with the mystery? I am not trying to be hard headed nor facetious but I am really having trouble understanding the point - it seems you want to set forth things as "riddles" and I just can't follow you. Maybe if I just sit back for a while . . . .

The original question of the name of the thread. That's the question. It is a rather simple question and with discussing. There are some that are making it confusing by throwing in a kinds of other things. The answer is that *That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs,
Post 242

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 *That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

This information came through the Jewish apostles and prophets. Peter was one of those apostles that went to Cornelius.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The original question of the name of the thread. That's the question. It is a rather simple question and with discussing. There are some that are making it confusing by throwing in a kinds of other things. The answer is that That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs,


Post 242

Okay . . that is the problem and is what is confusing me . . . Are you saying that this information was given in the OT? Or because Paul was a Jew and was given this revelation regarding the mystery? When you started off with scripture concerning the "mystery" is I think what threw off many, including me!

 

[just-me]

Okay . . that is the problem and is what is confusing me . . . Are you saying that this information was given in the OT? Or because Paul was a Jew and was given this revelation regarding the mystery? When you started off with scripture concerning the "mystery" is I think what threw off many, including me!

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles (plural) and prophets (Plural) by the Spirit;
6 *That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

What do "fellowheirs" mean to you?

 

[Ariel82]

In the NT, where the Jews were given the gospel before the Gentiles.

Yep I thought that was what this thread was discussing.....Even after spending a lifetime with Jesus the His Jewish followers did not understand scripture until He opened their understanding........

Luke 24
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and theProphets and the Psalms concerning Me.”45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise[h] from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And you are witnesses of these things.