Trinity?

[Kaycie]

Well hello!
All you Christians out there I want YOUR opinion!

I have studied this doctrine defined as the Trinity, and I tend to see a lot of issues with it. So I am just curious is someone that actually knows anything about it. (Not what you have always been taught, But what you have Studied) Would give me a brief but intellectual standpoint on it, in hopes of a discussion. What is the Trinity in your own words? And from a biblical point of view Why do you believe it?

First I'll say how I see then I will give scriptures...

I look at it this way- an egg has 3 parts- a white, a yolk, and a shell- but all together it is one egg. In the same way all 3 (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) are together one God. Just as all three parts of an egg will have the same DNA, all 3 of the Godhead have the same spiritual DNA- they are all Deity (God). They all work together of the same mind and purpose, they never work apart. For example, if someone claims that the Holy Spirit told them to do something that goes against scripture, they are lying or misinformed- they are going against Jesus Who is the Word of God (John 1:1). I personally believe that when Jesus asked Peter 3 times if he loved Him, that it was not because Peter denied Him 3 times, but because the Father and the Holy Spirit also asked Peter through Christ's body. The questions are the same, the responses are the same, but all 3 times it's worded differently. If you ask me a question 3 times in a row my answer will be the exact same wording all 3 times. I tried this on many different people- all the same every time.

OK, now for scriptures...

Genesis 1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image." This is plural. God did not say in this verse, "I will make man in My image." (Singular), so who are the 'US'? Well we know that there were only God and angels before the creation of earth. Does the 'US' mean in the image of God and angels? Well no, because then the next verse would read, "In the image of God and of angels mankind was created- both male and female." No, verse 27 says that mankind was created in the image of God- both male and female. Therefore- 'God' is plural- more than one person. Genesis 1:1 even says the Holy Spirit was hovering over the waters. And what did Jesus say in Matthew 28:19? To baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

How about a scripture where God the Father Himself calls Jesus 'God'? Hebrews 1:9 "...therefore God, Your God has..."

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God." How can you be with God and be God at the same time if 'God' is not plural?

Jesus says if you've seen Him you've seen the Father. (John 14:9). In Colossians 1:19 ALL the fullness of God dwells in Jesus Christ. We all know that God created the world, well in speaking of Jesus, Colossians 1:16 says that all things were created by Him and for Him. And in John 1:3 it says that without Jesus NOTHING was made that had been made. Jesus, the Word, said "Let there be..." and there was. (Literally- whether physically or spiritually, man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God) (Matt 4:4). (You can't say that about any other book on your bookshelf).

OK, I guess I'm getting into proving that Jesus is God (Deity), but that's part of proving that God is plural- God the Son, God the Holy Spirit (John 16:13 refers to the Holy Spirit as 'He' and not "It'), and God the Father. In Revelation 22:9 John was sharply corrected for bowing down to worship the angel that he was speaking to, why? Because, as they angel said, you can only worship God. But in Matthew 28:17 the apostles worshiped Jesus, yet He did not correct them, why? Because they were not wrong- Jesus is God.

Wow, there are so many verses, ok one more. In Mark 16:19 it says Jesus will sit at the right hand of God. If Jesus is God, and the scriptures say He is, how can He sit next to Himself? God is plural. The trinity (a man-made word) is true- God consists of 3 persons Who are of one mind and purpose. We can also be of the same mind and purpose, and we can be Godly, but we will never be Deity- there will never be more than 3 Deity in the one and only God.

 

[ELECT]

Re: Wake up...

Judgment ONLY takes place for the un-righteous, to begin with....and it occurs outside of Heaven.

What is the judgement seat of Christ?

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

Matthew 20:23
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of mycup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and onmy left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

How readesth thou ?

I read it as Triune.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

What is the judgement seat of Christ?

Scripture?

 

[ELECT]

Re: Wake up...

Scripture?

2 Corinthians 5:10-11King James Version (KJV)


10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

2 Corinthians 5:10-11King James Version (KJV)


10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

No mentioning that The Righteous are to be judged.

In fact, Jesus, Himself, says that The Righteous are NOT to be judged...


John 5.24 -29

Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Truly, truly, I say to you that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones hearing will live. For even as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in Himself. And He also gave authority to Him to execute judgment, for He is the Son of Man.Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombswill hear His voice. And they will come out, the ones having practiced good into a resurrection of life; the ones having done evil into a resurrection of judgment.

 

[ELECT]

Re: Wake up...

No mentioning that The Righteous are to be judged.

In fact, Jesus, Himself, says that The Righteous are NOT to be judged...


John 5.24 -29

Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Truly, truly, I say to you that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones hearing will live. For even as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in Himself. And He also gave authority to Him to execute judgment, for He is the Son of Man.Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombswill hear His voice. And they will come out, the ones having practiced good into a resurrection of life; the ones having done evil into a resurrection of judgment.

[h=1]1 Corinthians 11:32King James Version (KJV)[/h]32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

1 Corinthians 11:32King James Version (KJV)

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

A different Greek word, in a different context.

 

[Bowman]

And I saw a Great White Throne, and the One sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled; and a place was not found for them. And I saw the dead, the small and the great, standing before God. And books were opened. And another Book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell gave up the dead in them. And they were each judged according to their works. And death and hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death. And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire.(Rev 20.11 – 15)


· Two different sets of books are present at Judgment.


· One set consists of many books, and is filled with the works of the unrighteous.


· The other set consists of just one book, and is filled with the names of the Righteous.


· The Lamb’s singular Book of Life contains the names of the Righteous, only.No works.


· The other books (plural) contain the works of the un-righteous, only.No names.


· Both the Righteous and the un-righteous have works....but it is only the un-righteous who are judged by it.


· The unrighteous are judged by their works, as they lack faith.


· The righteous are not judged by their works, as they have faith.


· The righteous are rewarded for their faith-based works.


· Only the dead are judged.


· The ‘Living’ are not judged.


· The Righteous are saved from Judgment by their faith


· When it states that the Righteous will judge, it is referring to the names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, used as a reference point, opened at Judgment in order to judge the unrighteous.

 

[TruthisPower]

Jesus told the apostles that in “the re-creation” they would “sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28) Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

And he expressed a similar thought when he made a covenant with his faithful apostles for a Kingdom. (Luke 22:28-30) “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.


It is not reasonable that Jesus meant that they would judge the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel later mentioned in Revelation, for the apostles were to be part of that group. (Ephesians 2:19-22) So you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, 20 and you have been built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. 21 In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah. 22 In union with him you too are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit.

(Revelation 3:21) To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Those “called to be holy ones” are said to judge, not themselves, but “the world.” (1 Corinthians 1:1, 2) Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by God’s will, and Sos′the·nes our brother, 2 to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:

(1 Corinthians 6:2) Or do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you not competent to try very trivial matters?


Those reigning with Christ form a kingdom of priests. ((1 Peter 2:9) But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

(Revelation 5:10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
Consequently, “the twelve tribes of Israel” mentioned at Matthew 19:28 and Luke 22:30 evidently represent “the world” of mankind who are outside that royal priestly class and whom those sitting on heavenly thrones will judge.

(Revelation 20:4) And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Re: Wake up...

.

Zec 6:13 " Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both." Here clearly, we can see that Jesus will be sitting on His own throne as the priest and there will be a counsel between both or two entities. We also see here that Jesus is busy building the temple of the Lord, not His own temple but for the Lord, indicating that He is building it for His Father.



Again....where is the plural...?
Did you not see the part in the text "the counsel of peace shall be between them both." which indicates plural?

 

[jackamo]

The Trinity is entirely biblical as we see from the Apostle John in 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." This does not say "This one is three" But "These Three are one" And we also see this in the Gospel of John 1:1 "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" Now let me propose a question. It says the Word was with and was God, now you could think this has nothing to do with the trinity, but it does. As a human I am me, but am I with me? The simple answer is no, to be with someone there has to be some sort of differentiation or independence. From these two verses alone we see that God is three persons, but also one.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Re: Wake up...

.

Here is another text you may chew on, and please note, Jesus spoke these words Himself:-
Luk 22:69 "Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand side of the power of God" also indicating two entities which politely gels with my previous comment. This also indicates that Jesus will be sitting on God's right hand side, oh yes, that also gels with my two throne statements/texts. These are not assumptions but facts.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

The Trinity is entirely biblical as we see from the Apostle John in 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." This does not say "This one is three" But "These Three are one" And we also see this in the Gospel of John 1:1 "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" Now let me propose a question. It says the Word was with and was God, now you could think this has nothing to do with the trinity, but it does. As a human I am me, but am I with me? The simple answer is no, to be with someone there has to be some sort of differentiation or independence. From these two verses alone we see that God is three persons, but also one.

Have you ever heard of Interpolation? 1 Joh 5:7 is exactly that. This is where the translators side notes became part of the Bible. This does however not confirm Trinity, although many people/churches uses this as they know that everybody does not know the truth or perhaps they are also not aware of it. With regards to Joh 1:1, it confirms my teaching that originally God existed and He created the Word, His Son, also a God, before He gave up His deity to become man on this earth. This was part of God's Salvation Plan.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Wake up...

Zec 6:13 " Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both." Here clearly, we can see that Jesus will be sitting on His own throne as the priest and there will be a counsel between both or two entities. We also see here that Jesus is busy building the temple of the Lord, not His own temple but for the Lord, indicating that He is building it for His Father.



Again....where is the plural...?
Did you not see the part in the text "the counsel of peace shall be between them both." which indicates plural?

That The Father is NOT The Son is not news, brother.

Two Persons of the Trinity are in view here.....NOT two Thrones!

Come on....you can do better....

 

[ELECT]

Re: Wake up...

No mentioning that The Righteous are to be judged.

In fact, Jesus, Himself, says that The Righteous are NOT to be judged...


John 5.24 -29

Truly, truly, I say to you, The one who hears My Word, and believes the One who has sent Me, has everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Truly, truly, I say to you that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and the ones hearing will live. For even as the Father has life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in Himself. And He also gave authority to Him to execute judgment, for He is the Son of Man.Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombswill hear His voice. And they will come out, the ones having practiced good into a resurrection of life; the ones having done evil into a resurrection of judgment.

What sayesth thou
Psalm 7:8 The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

 

[Bowman]

You're reaching for the stars...

Here is another text you may chew on, and please note, Jesus spoke these words Himself:-
Luk 22:69 "Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand side of the power of God" also indicating two entities which politely gels with my previous comment.

And...?

How does this thwart The Trinity?

Do you even know what The Trinity even is...?

This also indicates that Jesus will be sitting on God's right hand side, oh yes, that also gels with my two throne statements/texts. These are not assumptions but facts.

ROTFLOL!!!

So...you've identified God The Father and God The Son...is this a new discovery for you?

Now that you realize that they are NOT each other, your next step is to realize that each is the ONE God.

After you make this connection, then you will realize that The Triune God occupies ONE Throne.

 

[ELECT]

Re: You're reaching for the stars...

And...?

How does this thwart The Trinity?

Do you even know what The Trinity even is...?







ROTFLOL!!!

So...you've identified God The Father and God The Son...is this a new discovery for you?

Now that you realize that they are NOT each other, your next step is to realize that each is the ONE God.

After you make this connection, then you will realize that The Triune God occupies ONE Throne.

Where will Jesus be during the 1000 yrs ?
Where will the Father be during the 1000 yrs ?
please provide scripture thanks

 

[ELECT]

Re: Wake up...

A different Greek word, in a different context.

There is judgement unto righteouness and judgement unto condemnation

 

[ELECT]

Re: You're reaching for the stars...

Psalm 26:1
Judge me, O Lord; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the Lord; therefore I shall not slide.