Baptism symbol only ?

[Dogknox]

My Friend you don't understand what your reading. This has nothing to do with water baptism. Jesus is stating that you must be born again by the Spirit which frees you from the sin nature. Look the law could not set them free from sin, David a man after Gods own heart committed adultery and murder. Yet God blessed Him why? Because of his faith in the cross.

To be born again means that you are washed in the blood of the cross, not what you do. Nowhere in the bible did God accept a work of the flesh and today He will not accept your work. He will only accept the work that you allow Him to do through you.

It is not by might nor by power but by My Spirit saith the Lord.

Kerry Wait a minute... 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Do you see God' words?
"AND" means "ALSO"!!! Water ALSO Spirit!
Water AND Spirit... Not spirit ALONE!

Water PLUS Spirit.... Together.... NOT Only Spirit!
Jesus was Baptized.. IN WATER then God spook "This is my son!"!

Water saves!!!

Right after Jesus said "You can't enter the Kingdom unless you are re-born of water.. he went out and Baptized with >>WATER<<!

To reject the words of Jesus is rejecting Jesus!

 

[PACEMAKER]

dognox you said "John 3:22
After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23 Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were coming and being baptized.
PACEMAKER Question:
From the verses above; Why were Jesus and John BAPTIZING at Aenon near Salim??
Please reply!!

Here's is my reply

4 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— [SUP]2 [/SUP]although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. [SUP]3 [/SUP]So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

You said to use ALL Scriptures
This contradicts your statement above that Jesus Baptized RIGHT??

John 3:3 Reply....


[SUP]4 [/SUP]“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked.
“Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus did Not tell Nicodemus that he was Wrong about his Statement
about the "water" being the "water" when women have child birth.
Haven't you heard the doctors say; "the water broke"
the birth will be soon..


[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[SUP][b][/SUP] gives birth to spirit. [SUP]7 [/SUP]You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[SUP][c][/SUP] must be born again.’ [SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[SUP][d][/SUP]
Read the rest of the Chapter 3
[SUP]27 [/SUP]To this John replied, “A person can receive only what is given them from heaven

IT IS A GIFT

What is your Definition of the word "GIFT" ????

[SUP]36 [/SUP]Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
but whoever rejects the Son will not see life,
for God’s wrath remains on them.

AND Again Where is the Word " baptize" in this verse ???

Remember to use ALL Scriptures

To get the Honest Truth; don't twist the meaning of words
to try to Prove your Religious Beliefs..
Do Not Rely on just what people have told you
Or Add to or Take Away from what the Scriptures Say..

 

[Brainfreeze]

Where is the water?
John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Where is the water?

Luke 23:
39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!" 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

 

[Kerry]

Well when was the thief on the cross dunked in water? Don't say that he was baptized previously cause that changes your doctrine of once saved always saved. Because why would he be crucified if he was saved and a thief.

 

[Kerry]

Luke 23:
39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!" 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Exactly and when was he baptized in water?

 

[Kerry]

When was Abraham . Isaac and Jacob, baptized in water are they not in Heaven by having faith in the cross?

 

[Kerry]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]When were they [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]baptized[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] and why are they in heaven?[/FONT]

 

[Kerry]

Do we have a knew rule?

 

[Dogknox]

Dogknox, Just how much POWER would your "water baptism"
have without Jesus Christ First dieing on the old rugged Cross
About two thousand years ago for old Sinners like us ??

Here is what I Believe

True religionis neither rules-based nor ritual-based.

True religion is a personal relationship with God
through Jesus Christ Alone..


Two things that all religions hold are that humanity is somehow separated
from God and needs to be reconciled to Him.



False religion seeks to solve this problem by
observing rules and rituals.


True religion solves the problem by recognizing that
only God could rectify the separation,
and that He has done so.



True religion recognizes the following:

1. We have all sinned and are therefore separated

from God (Romans 3:23).

2. If not rectified, the just penalty for sin is death and eternal separation from God after death (Romans 6:23).

3. God came to us in the Person of Jesus Christ and died in our place, taking the punishment that we deserve, and rose from the dead to demonstrate that His death was a sufficient sacrifice (Romans 5:8; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4; 2 Corinthians 5:21).

4. If we receive Jesus as the Savior, trusting His death as the full payment for our sins, we are forgiven, saved, redeemed, reconciled, and justified with God
(John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9).

True religion does have rules and rituals,
but there is a crucial difference.


In true religion, the rules and rituals are observed out of Gratitude for the salvation God has provided –


NOT in an effort to obtain that salvation.


True religion, which is Biblical Christianity, has rules to obey (do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not lie, etc.)
And rituals to observe (water baptism by immersion and the Lord’s Supper / Communion).
Observance of these rules and rituals is not what makes a person right with God. Rather, these rules and rituals are the RESULT of the relationship with God, by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone as the Savior.
False religion is doing things (rules and rituals) in order to try to earn God’s favor.
True religion is receiving Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby having a right relationship with God –
and then doing things (rules and rituals)
out of love for God and desire to grow closer to Him.





Dogknox, you said "Clearly 3000 were SAVED by Baptism!
3000 were "ADDED to the body of Jesus" by BAPTISM!
Clearly 3000 were made God' Children by Baptism! '

I gave you 4 scriptures that Plainly said
that people were saved With Out "water baptism"

Why did Paul say that he came NOT to "water baptize " in this verse
1 Corinthians 1:17-18New International Version (NIV)


[SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ did not send me to baptize,
but to preach the gospel—
not with wisdom and eloquence,
lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.


You are making “The Cross” loose it's meaning and Power
by Adding “water Baptism” for washing away sins

Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved
it is the power of God.

Now , what is thee POWER of GOD???

I will answer it for you "THE CROSS?

Now this is very plan that we are NOT Required
to be Water baptized" for our Salvation

There is No Power in the Water

Here is where the POWER IS in Scripture

When Jesus died on the cross,
He took upon Himself all the sin of the world



2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.



By taking the punishment for our sin, He cancelled the debt that each of us owes God
Colossians 2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us;

He has taken it away, ( sin)
nailing it to the cross.

Where?? the Cross

So , Jesus Christ Died on the Cross for ALL of our Sins RIGHT??

Then just What Sins does "water baptism" wash away??


He also reversed the curse of our old natures, which keeps us enslaved to sinful passions and desires
Galatians 3:10, For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. And 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a cross



Before a person meets Christ, he or she is enslaved by that sin nature
Romans 7:25; Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!


How are we Delivered??
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
2 Peter 2:19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”



At the moment of conversion, we are given a new nature that has been freed from sin
Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.



The entire chapter of Romans 6 explains this in detail. Verse 14 says, "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under GRACE"

Dogknox


What is your Definition of “Grace” ???

PACEMAKER Thank you for your reply!!!
Note Believing in Jesus saves you!!!
To believe in Jesus, you MUST believe the words of Jesus!!
The scriptures are his words.... You MUST reject the words of Jesus to say Baptism does NOT SAVE!

I posted scriptures you must reject scriptures to say what you do! You can't reject any scriptures!!

Scriptures right from Jesus' mouth...
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing..

Clearly (above) "Baptism MAKES DISCIPLES!"
Baptism makes Disciples of ALL Nations!
Disciples are IN God's family!!!

PACEMAKER Philip baptized the Eunuch because God wanted him baptized.
He Baptized the Eunuch with WATER, Philip TAUGHT the Eunuch Baptism with water saves!

All in God' family are saved!
Acts 8:36
As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?”

If it was only symbolic then why did God send Philip to the Eunuch??
If it is only symbolic then why did the Eunuch want to be baptized right then!?
Why was Philip TEACHING Baptism saves!?

 

[Kerry]

As a matter of a fact when they left Egypt they walked on dry ground through the red sea.

 

[tylerbones1313]

Here is My original first post this may help you to understand. You must study to show thyself approved unto God. I can sit here is a discussion all day because I love talking about My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But the best way to find true answers is to fast and pray that God would give you revelation.


Acts 2:38 Says: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, (and) be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. *emphasis mine.

The conjunction and joins two thoughts together always. Therefore repentance and baptism are both necessary for remission of sins. Let me put it another way. You borrow a friends shirt and drop it in the mud you tell your friend sorry and he forgives you. But until you wash the shirt it is still dirty.

Repentance is for the forgiveness of sins and baptism is for the removal of sins it takes both.

This was what Peter said after preaching when they asked a direct question "Men and Brethren what shall we do?" in effect they were saying what should we do to be saved.

As for the thief on the cross water baptism in Jesus name wasn't instituted til Christ died. We can't baptize in His name while he was yet alive.

All the way up until christ died we were still in the Old Testament it wasn't until he died the we came into the New Testament salvation. He is scripture backing: Hebrews Chapter 9 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

I absolutely believe that you must have faith in Christ and the Cross. We identify in his death, burial and resurrection. Repentance is dying (crucifying the flesh), Baptism is our burial of our old self, and Holy Ghost is Resurrection into new life.

 

[Brainfreeze]

It is good to be baptized by water, and the Spirit can fill in to you this way, but for someone dying, or different circumstances, it's not required, If we believe with all of our heart that Christ is Lord and died for our sins... We are saved,

 

[Dogknox]

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

When were they baptized and why are they in heaven?

I reply YUP they are in heaven... Paradise is in heaven it is a GARDEN!
Rev 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Kerry The Thief on the cross went to heaven>> Paradise a GARDEN!! It is NOT in the Kingdom!!Luke 23:43Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Paradise is a >>GARDEN<<
It is NOT in the Kingdom!! Not in the Throne room!!!

God's children those Baptized, those washed, without sins enter the Throne room, they are God' children!!

The Good Thief died before he could be baptized by the Church.. Jesus had not yet sent the Holy Spirit as a Gift, it was before Pentecost!

 

[Kerry]

Here is My original first post this may help you to understand. You must study to show thyself approved unto God. I can sit here is a discussion all day because I love talking about My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But the best way to find true answers is to fast and pray that God would give you revelation.


Acts 2:38 Says: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, (and) be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. *emphasis mine.

The conjunction and joins two thoughts together always. Therefore repentance and baptism are both necessary for remission of sins. Let me put it another way. You borrow a friends shirt and drop it in the mud you tell your friend sorry and he forgives you. But until you wash the shirt it is still dirty.

Repentance is for the forgiveness of sins and baptism is for the removal of sins it takes both.

This was what Peter said after preaching when they asked a direct question "Men and Brethren what shall we do?" in effect they were saying what should we do to be saved.

As for the thief on the cross water baptism in Jesus name wasn't instituted til Christ died. We can't baptize in His name while he was yet alive.

All the way up until christ died we were still in the Old Testament it wasn't until he died the we came into the New Testament salvation. He is scripture backing: Hebrews Chapter 9 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

I absolutely believe that you must have faith in Christ and the Cross. We identify in his death, burial and resurrection. Repentance is dying (crucifying the flesh), Baptism is our burial of our old self, and Holy Ghost is Resurrection into new life.

Again your first statement throws out the Holy Spirit. As you are talking about what you do. If it were what we do then law was sufficient. That's what head dunkers don't understand its what they do and God will not accept it nor have anything to do with it. It is by God and through God and to God, He will not accept any work of the flesh and water baptism is a work of the flesh no matter what you say.

 

[Dogknox]

It is good to be baptized by water, and the Spirit can fill in to you this way, but for someone dying, or different circumstances, it's not required, If we believe with all of our heart that Christ is Lord and died for our sins... We are saved,

If you "LOVE" then you can be saved!
Luke 10:25
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Brainfreeze Did Jesus lie? Did the man answer correctly?
How will the man be saved??????!!

Do you believe Love saves??? If not then why not?
You cannot love without "SACRIFICE!"

 

[tylerbones1313]

God can do whatever he wants and save whoever he wants. But if the death bed statement is true than everyone would live however they wanted doing whatever sin pleases them and then at the moment of death say Lord I believe. That just sounds so absurd. Not everyone that says Lord Lord will enter Jesus says.

 

[Kerry]

If you "LOVE" then you can be saved!
Luke 10:25
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Brainfreeze Did Jesus lie? Did the man answer correctly?
How will the man be saved??????!!

Do you believe Love saves??? If not then why not?
You cannot love without "SACRIFICE!"

According to their doctrine he really wasn't saved because his head didn't get wet and blessed by a man. He just had an experience and if wants to truly be saved then pastor must dunk his head in water. Because there is something about water, I don't know what is but that is some powerful stuff.

Jesus said well not today, stick your head under water by an approved pastor and then I will save you.

 

[Kerry]

This is what is killing Christianity these foreigners who now works see it as just another religion and have no need for it. The cross is not preached and only mans traditions and it fails.

 

[tylerbones1313]

Jesus name baptism is a revelation and has to be sought with pray, fasting and studying. Faith without works is dead, the book of James says. Proper faith will always produce proper works and if baptism is a work it is a proper work why should anyone ignore doing so. Besides even Christ commanded it to be done.

 

[Kerry]

Jesus name baptism is a revelation and has to be sought with pray, fasting and studying. Faith without works is dead, the book of James says. Proper faith will always produce proper works and if baptism is a work it is a proper work why should anyone ignore doing so. Besides even Christ commanded it to be done.

Good try brother, but it is still works, If I read more and pray more it is my works is it not? We must place our faith in the work of the cross and nothing else. Nothing wrong with praying more in fact it will help you, nothing wrong with reading more it will help you, but not with sin in your life, read all you want to it will not break a single thread of sin. Get dunked in water and it will still not help you.

It must be the cross and nothing else. Deliverance will come I can't say when but it will come. If you place faith in the cross and not water baptism or anything else you can do.