False tongues, are you being decieved?

[notuptome]

... it sounds like gibberish.

Same could be said of much of what is presented as doctrine around here.

 

[just-me]

. . . . began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. Every man heard them speak in his own language [not the apostles' language but speaking the language of Parthians, Medes and Elamites, etc] - languages that the apostles did not know - that is why they were confounded [bewildered].

Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

And what do you suppose all these people of different languages heard form the disciples?

 

[Calminian]

I think that is not quite what the bible says. The Acts Account only one time did the rushing mighty wind and tongues of fire happened. it was not done again but Speaking in tongues was done and recorded as an normative not descriptive.

Acts 2:2-4 this is the only time we see sound from heaven, rushing mighty wind, cloven tongues of fire before they spoke in tongues.

Acts 10:44-46 Peter did not even get to lay hands on them in and the Holy Spirit filled them Acts 19:6 Paul laid his hands on about 12 men and they received and spoken in tongues. 1 cor 12, 13, 14 is instruction on the gifts. one saying they are gibberish ok then God uses gibberish which was mocked too at Pentecost acts 2 after all of the amazing thing happened. Rushing mighty wind, cloven tongues of fire they mocked and said they were drunk. where they undeniable? human reason has been denying God for along time now. Rom 1 speaks of that. the real sign? from what the bible says is not the rushing mighty wind nor cloven tongues of fire I think now as a normative the initial evidence may be tongues when one is filled with the Holy Spirit or Prophesying.

Not sure what you're saying. If you're saying that Pentecost was unusual and not normative for the church today, then yes I agree. I don't think anything going today is remotely similar to what happened at Pentecost. And ironically, I think most charismatics agree. So then now we have them phenomenon of gibberish in churches, and in non-churches and cults. It's claimed to be from God, but there's no explicit references to it, and no historical precedence for it prior to in turning up in the early 1900s. All we have is a claim by some that it's a heavenly language. I think at best we can say the Bible is silent on this, and at worst, it's a possible deception.

 

[just-me]

Here is part of what those who heard in their own language understood.

Acts 2:29-43
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried , and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up , whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted , and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do ?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call .
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

 

[Calminian]

Here is part of what those who heard in their own language understood.

Acts 2:29-43
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried , and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up , whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted , and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do ?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call .
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Which very clearly states the purpose of tongues. That said, some will believe the gospel message some won't even in the presence of a great sign such as this.

 

[CS1]

Not sure what you're saying. If you're saying that Pentecost was unusual and not normative for the church today, then yes I agree. I don't think anything going today is remotely similar to what happened at Pentecost. And ironically, I think most charismatics agree. So then now we have them phenomenon of gibberish in churches, and in non-churches and cults. It's claimed to be from God, but there's no explicit references to it, and no historical precedence for it prior to in turning up in the early 1900s. All we have is a claim by some that it's a heavenly language. I think at best we can say the Bible is silent on this, and at worst, it's a possible deception.

absolutely not I am saying that the bible records the first initial evidence in Acts 2:2-4 and this did not happen and but Tongues did and is for today. for the many posts and scriptures it is clear it is and I am not Charismatic by the definition of denomination. and the church History well records the filling of the Holy Ghost tongues and prophesying. the Book of Acts recorded many salvation that did not stop as it did the Filling with the Holy Spirit. Mockers were well documented and Jesus said they would come. It is a Supernatural not natural nor is a the carnal mind to understand it or human reason.

 

[The_highwayman]

Tongues was turned into a "heavenly prayer language" by people attempting to justify the use of gibberish that cannot be understood because it has no meaning.

Which is why you must pray for interpretation right? 1 Cor 14.13

 

[Calminian]

absolutely not I am saying that the bible records the first initial evidence in Acts 2:2-4 and this did not happen and but Tongues did and is for today. for the many posts and scriptures it is clear it is and I am not Charismatic by the definition of denomination. and the church History well records the filling of the Holy Ghost tongues and prophesying. the Book of Acts recorded many salvation that did not stop as it did the Filling with the Holy Spirit. Mockers were well documented and Jesus said they would come. It is a Supernatural not natural nor is a the carnal mind to understand it or human reason.

Some of those sentences are a bit ambiguous so you may want to clarify, but again, these are assertions just like the many before. I understand you want to make threats and kind of scare people into believing in these types of tongues, but only good arguments are going to be persuasive here. So far I just see assertions and threats.

You've asserted history supports gibberish tongues.
Support offered: none

You've asserted gibberish tongues are a sign for today.
Support: none

You've asserted gibberish tongues were prophesied to be mocked.
Support: none

 

[peacefulbeliever]

And what do you suppose all these people of different languages heard form the disciples?

the wonderful works of God . . . .

 

[Calminian]

Which is why you must pray for interpretation right? 1 Cor 14.13

1Cor. 14:13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

This seems pretty straight forward. If you speak or pray in a tongue, it's useless unless someone can understand it. Peter spoke in a tongue, which was just his own tongue (tongue = language). But others heard and understood even though they didn't know his language.

Thus, anyone thinking they have the gift of tongues should be praying that someone not native to their language can understand them when they are preaching the good news.

In churches today, people don't speak in their own language, but rather speak gibberish and the hope that someone who already speaks their language in the church can understand it. Scripture is utterly silent on this.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Here is part of what those who heard in their own language understood.
Acts 2:29-43
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried , and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up , whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted , and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do ?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call .
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

NOPE . . .

we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, . . . Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. BUT Peter . . .little ole Peter who was just days before hid behind doors for fear of the Jews - stood up with the eleven, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be thins known unto you and hearken to my words: for the are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day . . .

Basically you could say this is the first sermon given by Peter, witnessing to the outpouring of the holy Spirit, the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Nothing indicates that this section of scripture is what was spoken when the Holy Spirit was poured out on them . . . In fact Peter is speaking to men of Judea, those that dwell at Jerusalem, Ye men of Israel . . .

 

[Calminian]

NOPE . . .

we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, . . . Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. BUT Peter . . .little ole Peter who was just days before hid behind doors for fear of the Jews - stood up with the eleven, Ye men of Judea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be thins known unto you and hearken to my words: for the are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day . . .

Basically you could say this is the first sermon given by Peter, witnessing to the outpouring of the holy Spirit, the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Nothing indicates that this section of scripture is what was spoken when the Holy Spirit was poured out on them . . . In fact Peter is speaking to men of Judea, those that dwell at Jerusalem, Ye men of Israel . . .

Hmmm. Why would you conclude that this was not a gift from the Holy Spirit? Peter went out, and spoke and miraculously people could understand him? Sounds like a tongues gift to me. Why would I concluded this was not a sign gift?

Plus, this seems to be exactly what was encountered by the masses at Pentecost.

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven..........A5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

 

[RedTent]

Talk about gibberish! I think some of these posts are truly gibberish. Scripture tells us there is a gift from the Lord given to some people to speak in tongues and also explains it. Most of us have met some people who have that gift, some have heard it. Some have heard it being either used in the wrong way or heard people pretending to have the gift when it wasn't real.

Yet, there are posters here who say they have absolute knowledge that it is wrong, it isn't a gift, or all sort of ways of denying what scripture teaches. Some even use scripture to say that scripture saying there is this gift is all wrong.

I wonder what people think who have little personal knowledge of scripture and think we know about it!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Hmmm. Why would you conclude that this was not a gift from the Holy Spirit? Peter went out, and spoke and miraculously people could understand him? Sounds like a tongues gift to me. Why would I concluded this was not a sign gift?

Plus, this seems to be exactly what was encountered by the masses at Pentecost.

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven..........A5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

I conclude that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit actually occurred - 2:4
I conclude that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance - 2:4
I conclude that the Galilaeans spoke the language of the Parthians, Medes, Elamites, etc. as the Spirit gave them utterance - 2:9-11
I conclude that what was spoken in other tongues was the wonderful works of God - 2:11
I conclude that there were men of Israel there among those Parthans, Medes, Elamites etc. - 2:5
I conclude that Peter stood up, lifted up his voice to give the first sermon after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit - spoken to men of Judea, those that dwell at Jerusalem, [2:14] ye men of Israel [2:22]

Did not Peter converse with men of Judaea, those that dwelt at Jerusalem, men of Israel before without speaking in the language of Parthians, Medes, Elamites, etc?

 

[Billyd]

Each gift of the Holy Spirit has a specific purpose. What is the specific purpose of tongues? Answer this question, and you will understand tongues as they are supposed to be used. I seriously question the need for tongues today.

You would be surprised at the interpretations that I have had of John 3:16 when it is spoken in the original Greek at a meeting. I have yet to speak it, yet to not have an interpreter attempt to translate it, and have never had it interpreted. I just laughed under my breath, and walked out after the service.

Seriously. I believe in the Gift of Tongues. I know a few people who have prayer tongues. These tongues are a private language between the speaker and God. Since I can see the need for private intimate prayer, and there are times when we are in a dangerous environment, I believe that there is still a need for this type of tongue.

 

[Calminian]

I conclude that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit actually occurred - 2:4
I conclude that they spoke in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance - 2:4
I conclude that the Galilaeans spoke the language of the Parthians, Medes, Elamites, etc. as the Spirit gave them utterance - 2:9-11
I conclude that what was spoken in other tongues was the wonderful works of God - 2:11
I conclude that there were men of Israel there among those Parthans, Medes, Elamites etc. - 2:5
I conclude that Peter stood up, lifted up his voice to give the first sermon after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit - spoken to men of Judea, those that dwell at Jerusalem, [2:14] ye men of Israel [2:22]

Did not Peter converse with men of Judaea, those that dwelt at Jerusalem, men of Israel before without speaking in the language of Parthians, Medes, Elamites, etc?

Forgive me pb, I really don't understand your posts. I don't think your following the basic questions I'm asking. It's okay, though. Sometimes christians have trouble communicating.

Grace and peace

 

[Calminian]

Talk about gibberish! I think some of these posts are truly gibberish. ...

RedTent I notice you keep repeating this insult. My thinking is, we tend to insult when we're lacking in answers. Just a thought.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Forgive me pb, I really don't understand your posts. I don't think your following the basic questions I'm asking. It's okay, though. Sometimes christians have trouble communicating.

Grace and peace

I agree sometimes it is hard communicating what we really mean and forgive me if I misunderstood what you were saying.

God bless you.

 

[RedTent]

RedTent I notice you keep repeating this insult. My thinking is, we tend to insult when we're lacking in answers. Just a thought.

I wasn't meaning to insult. Don't you think that scripture has the answers and denying those answers is not right? Or don't you believe in scripture as an answer? Also, do you think that it could possibly be that manipulated the thought of scripture until you get it to change to a man made thought is the right way to read scripture? Many of these posts are using scripture to say another scripture is not right!!

 

[Trailblazer]

again completely hypothetical and if this did happen please look at the bible in 1cor chapter 12, 13, 14. jesus did not say it is best to speak in tongues in private? Jesus said in Matthew 6:5-8 in context to prayer do not do it like the Hypocrites standing in the synagogues and in the corner of the street that they maybe seen of men. Their motives for prayer were wrong which the bible is clear about that same with tongues ones motives can be wrong just like preaching and teaching. Jesus said In Mark 16:17-18 believers would speak in Tongues. "Again.. In that Church's cases". The Bible says to go to the brother with two witness. secondly you can not say everyone is speaking to demons because you do not know what everyone is saying. If the Interpreter doesn't have the Holy Spirit how you would know it is another issue but, what they are saying doesn't line up with the bible which the tongues and interpretation are to and comfort, Edify, and build up as the bible says they are to do. If they are not doing that( line up with the bible comforting, edifying, building up) and some foolish person would say what you are suggesting " death to children" someone should tell them to seat down and be quiet. And the Pastor would have to come to the pulpit and let everyone know that person was out of order. it is very easy. And it bring glory to God. But if we are so bent on it not even biblical I would need to see that in scripture and not some urban Legend about spiritual gifts.

Not Hypothetical.This did happen. RedTent in post #37 Did witnessed this. RedTent choose to walk away at that time.
That is what lead me to my responses of learning where the evil dwells in the church that she attended. "From what the interpreter claimed"

Jesus did not word it as!.. Speak in tongues only in Pvt, as you pointed out. You posted the correct scriptures as what I was getting at with the Hypocrites on street corners. etc

When I look at this thread starter. Seems to me that it is just another attempt to have Christians question there faith.
I do not have the Gift of Tongues. If I did. I would search my heart. I would know that the gift for me was from God.
For I have faith in the Holy Spirit. That he does What Jesus sent him to do.
Then my answer to this thread starter. NOPE!.. I am not deceived by any false tongues.