Once saved, is sin ok?
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You know I understand what you are saying. I don't know why this conversation always gets turned into this but I get you brother. Yes we WERE sinners of the world, I was even calling myself Christian, I thought that's what it was too. I made my deal and was good to go, then a real test hit and I couldn't handle it (see "I" couldn't handle it because I was still just worrying about what I could do). I learned I no more knew God the I knew the man on the moon, and I was deceived. How did I learn this? Once I broke so bad I knew I wasn't capable of living my life anymore, and had gone as far on my own steam as I was going to get and "Quit life" that's when the God I follow, the very God of the bible Word for Word, picked me back up and made me a new creature and I was no longer of this world. Overnight I put down a lifelong passion of video games (not because I saw them as "bad" at first but because God changed my priorities), and I tried to look at porn 1 time after regeneration, and the conviction of the Holy Spirit wasn't having that at all either. Now, a little more than a year later, I don't even have a TV in the house and rarely even put on any music because I want to hear myself think and focus on Him (not that I'm saying this is what anyone else should do, just what God's lead me to do). All that within a year and all because of Him. All glory to our God! I would have never done any of that on my own, why would I? I didn't even think it was wrong in the first place and still called myself Christian, but I wasn't then. I was deceived. The power of the Spirit will not allow "Me" to keep on sinning away at all. Do I still sin? Of course, the Spirit shows me new sins of mine hourly, but I will never stop trying to correct them in frantic, adoring, GRATTITUDE. I WANT to be more like Christ with a burning passion. Will I ever be that way? Absolutely not, and would never think to put myself on the same creation as our Lord, I'll never make the dirt under His feet, but that won't stop me from trying with all my feeble mind, body and soul to try to be. I love ya brother and see what you're saying.
Ok, Jim, thanks for letting me know I was being confusing there.. As you said your heart, mind, emotions, will, changed overnight. I'm with you bro all the way, and glad your man enough to stand on what you believe instead of making nice with everyone, we know better then that, are life was at risk by this nasty adversary, of course we get lustful thoughts when seeing to much of women, we're men.. To reject those thoughts bind them up and throw it in the abyss is the goal though, as we both have done, because we love our Heavenly Dad.. We love and respect our families as well. For people to say the urge is so bad they have to, is a lie from the devil that they believe, I personally have seen enough from God to be in complete obedience ... I'm older, getting wiser as days grow old, yet I just left my twenties, I'm still a young man, with learning to do, but as long as I stay dedicated to Jesus, obedient, disciplined, and full of love for all, I trample over the devil, as the Angels sing glory to God. We can't line up to each other though, as I don't know what it was for David and all that power, most don't have the power we have invested in us by God today. These were gifts of having charm, being handsome, having power, and all the rest, but to throw it all before Jesus and His cross, the Angels sing even louder .., God bless you and yours brother Jim, I'm with ya
Your misunderstanding is not in language but in theology. The Holy Spirit does NOT do anything through us which is why we are commanded to do it. The Holy Spirit influences, guides, directs but does not do. That violates God's sovereignty as to why and how He created man. It is you that decides to yield to either the influence of the Holy Spirit or Satan. Neither one can make you do anything that you don't desire to do. It is why there will be as judgment and all men will give an account of their works.
If man has no free will, it is impossible to be held accountable. Without free will God becomes the responsible agent since He created man to be an object to be manipulated.
God does absolutely NOTHING in man unless man cooperates with Him in the Covenant. Man is the initiator of his own personal salvation. God is calling all men to repentance. He cannot repent for you. He stands and knocks and unless you open the door, nothing proceeds. If it was actually God doing it, then it would be predestination and every single human being would be manipulated by Him. Man in this view has no intrinsic value, He does not possess the Image of God. He serves less of a purpose than a tree or animal who acts by nature or instinct.
You wanted book, chapter and verse, well you answered your own question with your initial statement.
If man has no free will, it is impossible to be held accountable. Without free will God becomes the responsible agent since He created man to be an object to be manipulated.
God does absolutely NOTHING in man unless man cooperates with Him in the Covenant. Man is the initiator of his own personal salvation. God is calling all men to repentance. He cannot repent for you. He stands and knocks and unless you open the door, nothing proceeds. If it was actually God doing it, then it would be predestination and every single human being would be manipulated by Him. Man in this view has no intrinsic value, He does not possess the Image of God. He serves less of a purpose than a tree or animal who acts by nature or instinct.
You wanted book, chapter and verse, well you answered your own question with your initial statement.
I also want to agree, I'm nothing like Christ, He is the pinnacle of perfection, the difference between everyday sinners and myself, I strive eagerly towards Jesus, showing love where someone else would say your crazy, as they have, I'm still nothing like Christ, as you said Jim, as John the Baptist said, I'm not worthy of untying the shoes of Jesus, this is true, but my mind, heart, intent, will is focused on proving that I can be as He wants me to be, sinless, this is a daily battle though, that Jesus completed sinless, for 33 years... I've sinned so bad, as one would know from reading this thread and could maybe fathom the thought of how terrible I really was, compared to the man I am today. It's a night and day difference, I could never go back to dwell and wallow in my sin, as a pig to dirt though, we have to strive, as you said Jim, with our feeble minds, to be as close as I can get to Him. We shouldn't say, well because we will fall, we mine as well fall then, the answers no, we have power to reject thoughts, reject urges, reject wrong doing, reject sin and stand up for righteousness, stand up for love, stand up for those that need help, rather it be help, in a role model, in strength, in prayer, in sin, sickness or poverty, God calls us to be servants, that I am... A servant to Christ. Again...nothing like Christ I try to be..there's a big difference between wanting to be my Heavenly Father and wanting to be just like His ways, with Him as the lead.. Satan tells the lie, that we can be gods, I don't want to be God, I want to be like His ways... I want to let Him reign in me, it is He who I let live in me, with a choice... I hope everyone gets this
You failed to give a reasonable answer to my question:
Sin is why one is lost. Yet if it is impossible for a Christian to be lost then either sin does not exist or that Christian must be perfectly sinless. So why would God chastise a Christian when sin does not exist or when that Christian is perfectly sinless?
(I've never read any book or article Campbell ever wrote)
Sin is why one is lost. Yet if it is impossible for a Christian to be lost then either sin does not exist or that Christian must be perfectly sinless. So why would God chastise a Christian when sin does not exist or when that Christian is perfectly sinless?
(I've never read any book or article Campbell ever wrote)
Seabass my friend, you are correct...
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now this is not the comprehensive list, just a list. This is not unbelief, there are those who have believed but just choose to sin.
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
It is a choice, not unbelief.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now this is not the comprehensive list, just a list. This is not unbelief, there are those who have believed but just choose to sin.
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
It is a choice, not unbelief.
It's from people falling into sin, not really coming to repentance, so they feel better if they point out in on other people, and that others are not as serious as they are about sin
And they are usually quick to say, that person' isn't saved, I think she is, I don't think she is
Lofty opinions built up against the knowledge of God
And they are usually quick to say, that person' isn't saved, I think she is, I don't think she is
Lofty opinions built up against the knowledge of God
ya I honestly can't think of a situation where its okay to sin, thats like saying its okay to lie if its a white lie- umm no mom Santa is not real that's lying, no sweety its just a little white lie for your little brother. Umm mom in what universe is it ever ok to lie you grounded me for lying because the bible says its wrong
Paul most certainly does not answer it no. You do not seem to comprehend what you read. The man was separated for the purpose of fellowship but never given to believe that he was unsaved. For the purpose of the testimony of the local assembly they separated from him but they gave it over to God as to his eternal state. A lesson you should take note of by the way.
When this man repented he was restored to fellowship.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
When this man repented he was restored to fellowship.
For the cause of Christ
Roger